LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Not that this would absolve Rhaegar in his part he played in fecking up the kingdom. Actually it would absolve him. Saving mankind would be worth the risk Rhasegar made. The only way that Rhaegar could guarantee that he and Lyanna would concieve a child is if he took her when he could . Any other other plan would have less of chance of working . The end result was worth the risk if Jon's saves the world. Relevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was a delusional moron but not a malicious one like his father Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer of Nations Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Him rebelling against the Targs is not something I hold against him much. But dismissing Elia and the Targ children deaths, rewarding Tywin for killing them by having Robert marry Cersei, proclaiming Robert King etc. That was quite despicable I agree. However, both sides commited atrocities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Then why and how exactly Aerys was capable to take them as hostages? Sorry but from what you are saying I see that you actually say that since they were living in luxury they were not abandoned. Um, luxury? Where are you getting that? I emphasized the protection Dragonstone offered. Not sure how they got back to KL, but that's not where Rhaegar left them so the "he left them with the Mad King!" argument is flawed. Perhaps not shattered, but flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Actually it would absolve him. Saving mankind would be worth the risk Rhasegar made. The only way that Rhaegar could guarantee that he and Lyanna would concieve a child is if he took her when he could . Any other other plan would have less of chance of working . The end result was worth the risk if Jon's saves the world.I wouldn't absolve him. I like Rhaegar and I don't lay the blame of Robert's Rebellion all at his feet or most but he could have handled the situation better there must have been a way without disrupting so much. He made his mistakes and I acknowledge that but just because he could be right doesn't completely absolve him of handling the situation better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer of Nations Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Actually it would absolve him. Saving mankind would be worth the risk Rhasegar made. The only way that Rhaegar could guarantee that he and Lyanna would concieve a child is if he took her when he could . Any other other plan would have less of chance of working . The end result was worth the risk if Jon's saves the world. That's very macchiavellian of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Actually it would absolve him. Saving mankind would be worth the risk Rhasegar made. The only way that Rhaegar could guarantee that he and Lyanna would concieve a child is if he took her when he could . Any other other plan would have less of chance of working . The end result was worth the risk if Jon's saves the world. No it wouldn't. He could have gotten Lyanna without creating a huge civil war in Westeros causing thousands of lives. Just think how much stronger Westeros would have been with no major civil war 20 years before the Others attack. edit: and who is to say that some other chosen one would emerge instead of Jon to save the realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draevan13 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Wow, this thread really took off quick :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was also a huge dick to his wife. 279 They marry, 280 she gives birth is sick for 6 months after and he gets her pregnant either while she is still sick or just after she gets better in 281. As soon as she gives birth and is sick again he decides to leave her and his new born son and young daughter to find a new baby maker for himself. Luckily he had been flirting with some 13/14 year old while Elia was still pregant and she is still in the Riverlands away from her family. Not evil, but dumb and a bit of a dick.Him treating his wife like that is enough to make him a bad person, at least as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 No it wouldn't. He could have gotten Lyanna without creating a huge civil war in Westeros causing thousands of lives. Just think how much stronger Westeros would have been with no major civil war 20 years before the Others attack. Any other plan to get Lyanna would have less of a chance of working . What happens if Rickard Stark turns him down and ships her to Storms End to marry Robert? His chance of concieving Jon just went down to nearly zero . Would you risk the fate of the world on that decision or take her when you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardar Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Relevant Not really? What does Stannis have to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 That was quite despicable I agree. However, both sides commited atrocities.Aerys was the only one who committed atrocities and maybe Rhaegar with the rape and abduction of Lyanna. But the Rebels were bigger with Hoster burning the villages of his own people and Tywin's sack of KL and the murder and rape of Elia and her babies but the most disgusting was Arryn rewarding the Lannisters for those horrors and Robert standing over the brutalized bodies of babies and sneering at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Any other plan to get Lyanna would have less of a chance of working . What happens if Rickard Stark turns him down and ships her to Storms End to marry Robert? His chance of concieving Jon just went down to nearly zero . Would you risk the fate of the world on that decision or take her when you can? He is the future king of Westeros and Rickard is an ambitious man. He could promise to set aside Elia and properly marry his daughter. Why is Lyanna so important though? Does this prophesy state specific people that he has to impregnate and when they have to be born? If so, show other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 That's very macchiavellian of you. No just practical. It's really just a matter of percentages . Rhaegar's plan has the most chance of conceiving TPwwP . Any other plan would have a less of a percentage of working . When you are trying to save the world do you really try the plan that has a lower % chance of working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Dragonstone is a formidable castle that probably would not have fallen easily had Aerys tried to force them to King's Landing. It wasn't just Elia & the kids alone in the big castle. There was most likely a garrison and people who would have defended the royal family. I meant when Rhaegar returned to KL to lead the Royal army to the Trident. He chose to leave Elia and the children in KL with Aerys at this point instead of sending them to Dorne (and at this point he had no excuses about not knowing about his father's insanity) where they would be safer. He did this either 1) to ensure Dornish loyalty or 2) because he didn't think his father might be a danger to them. 1 would be unpleasant, if practical. 2 would be foolish and incorrect. Seeing as Aerys kept Elia and the children in KL to prevent Dornish betrayal after the Battle of the Trident instead of sending them off, it was Aerys' fault that they were there when the city was sacked. Not to mention of course the wildfire. Now, Rhaegar can't have been expected to know about the wildfire, but anticipating that his insane father might do something insane would be reasonable to expect of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Aerys was the only one who committed atrocities and maybe Rhaegar with the rape and abduction of Lyanna. But the Rebels were bigger with Hoster burning the villages of his own people and Tywin's sack of KL and the murder and rape of Elia and her babies but the most disgusting was Arryn rewarding the Lannisters for those horrors and Robert standing over the brutalized bodies of babies and sneering at it.And you think the loyalist weren't raping and burning villages too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He is the future king of Westeros and Rickard is an ambitious man. He could promise to set aside Elia and properly marry his daughter. Why is Lyanna so important though? Does this prophesy state specific people that he has to impregnate and when they have to be born? If so, show other people. Obviously Rhaegar thought so and he would know more about the prophecy then you or me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He was a delusional moron but not a malicious one like his father Considering there is an army of the dead and White Walkers descending on the North maybe he was not so delusional after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer of Nations Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Him treating his wife like that is enough to make him a bad person, at least as far as I'm concerned. I think it makes him morally repugnant. Bad? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 He is the future king of Westeros and Rickard is an ambitious man. He could promise to set aside Elia and properly marry his daughter. That might work but it might not . Rickard may decide to honor his pledge to marry her to Robert. Could Rhaegar take that chance if he was counting on a child of their's saving the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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