Boarsbane Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Conjecture. Not facts.Does George have write "Rhaegar loved Lyanna, not Elia" for you to see the writing on the wall? Rhaegar crowning Lyanna isn't conjecture, nor is him abandoning his wife and kids for almost a year, Arthur Dayne being with Lyanna, Aerys being a madman, and Lyanna being safely hidden in Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Obviously Rhaegar thought so and he would know more about the prophecy then you or me. Clearly he didn't. He thought his son Aegon was the Prince that was promised. He just thought that he needed three children. Lyanna only became relevant then as he needed another baby making machine. Who Lyanna was, was not important to any prophesy. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward. Lyanna had nothing to do with a prophesy, it was just some girl he fancied while his wife was still pregnant. Elia was also not important either as his father chose his wife for him. The war is partly on him (and obviously others) for not thinking about his actions. He was an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 So what? King Jon Targaryen and King Aegon Targaryen duking it out with their uncle's or cousin's armies a couple years down the line isn't particularly smart either. So Rhaegar should just ignore the prophecy and hope for the best? I'm sure when King Rhaegar starts hearing rumors about the dead rising north of the wall and the White Walkers attacking 20 years later he's going to regret not trying to fulfill the prophecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Plot demanded it. Or Rhaegar made a foolish/unpleasant decision. We can't just write off the bad decisions that characters that we like make as 'plot demanded it.' Jon and Sansa are two of my favourites, but I'm not writing off their mistakes as 'plot demanded it.'I don't write it off as "plot demanded it" because I don't like the mistake. I'm calling it that because it makes no sense, why not send them to Dorne which is arguably the safest place for them. Why would Rhaegar let his wife and children go to his father who he saw as slipping more and more into madness? Aerys just burnt a bunch of people on fire who would give their children and wife into their care? Plus Elia and her kids have probably spent no more than a day in Aerys presence why start now when he's obviously seeing threats everywhere plus he wasn't so nice to the Dornish and he was suspicious of Rhaegar so why give your wife and heirs to a crazy person on a silve platter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Does George have write "Rhaegar loved Lyanna, not Elia" for you to see the writing on the wall? Rhaegar crowning Lyanna isn't conjecture, nor is him abandoning his wife and kids for almost a year, Arthur Dayne being with Lyanna, Aerys being a madman, and Lyanna being safely hidden in Dorne. As a matter of fact, yes, GRRM has to write more specifically until any of us can say without a doubt that Rhaegar's actions were wrong. He's emphasized that we as readers have the benefit of hindsight that the characters don't and has mentioned that we still don't know everything about the rebellion. Until we have those specific details, we can neither demonize Rhaegar or absolve him. And I'm a patient reader, so I have not jumped to conclusions yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Clearly he didn't. He thought his son Aegon was the Prince that was promised. He just thought that he needed three children. Lyanna only became relevant Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward. Lyanna had nothing to do with a prophesy, it was just some girl he fancied while his wife was still pregnant. Elia was also not important either as his father chose his wife for him. The war is partly on him (and obviously others) for not thinking about his actions. He was an idiot. How do you know all this ? have you read the prophecy or read something about what Rhaegar knew about the prophecy? Please share the link I would love to read that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 So Rhaegar should just ignore the prophecy and hope for the best? I'm sure when King Rhaegar starts hearing rumors about the dead rising north of the wall and the White Walkers attacking 20 years later he's going to regret not trying to fulfill the prophecy. The prophesy did not say Lyanna Stark. Though blaming prophesies for cheating on your wife with teenage girls is genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How do you know all this ? have you read the prophecy or read something about what Rhaegar knew about the prophecy? Please share the link I would love to read that. My exact thoughts also. I believe butterbumps said it best. as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How do you know all this ? have you read the prophecy or read something about what Rhaegar knew about the prophecy? Please share the link I would love to read that. Its in the books dude, read them sometime without coming out with so much claptrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destroyer of Nations Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Conjecture. Not facts. Yet, the Rhaegar-defenders consider it a fact that Lyanna went willingly. That's not outright stated in the books either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 A repost of my Rhaegar Targaryen had Aspergers Syndrome theory: - He has a special subject that he pursues to the extent of obsession, namely prophecies, and to a lesser extent harp music. There's even a flashback scene in the House of the Undying where he's with his (own actually existing) son, and he's still going on about "there needs to be one more". - It explains him running off with Lyanna, and not quite understanding why it would upset people, even though he is highly intelligent. - As a child, he showed no interest in other children, and spent all his time with books. Our other bookworm, Sam Tarly, is far more social by comparison. - As a child, he impresses the Maesters with his knowledge of arcane trivia. One imagines his vocabulary being pretty extensive. - Rhaegar remains clearly introverted as an adult, coming across as more comfortable with his harp than anything. - He doesn't seem to notice that Jon Connington has a homosexual crush on him. - (This is stretching things) Ned doesn't think Rhaegar would visit brothels. Perhaps that sort of social setting made Aspie!Rhaegar uncomfortable? - The apparent lack of social awkwardness can be explained by everyone being too busy admiring his inhuman beauty, or thinking how wonderful he is, to notice him doing anything odd. Especially given that he's Targaryen: there's a social expectation that Targaryens are supposed to do odd things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boarsbane Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 As a matter of fact, yes, GRRM has to write more specifically until any of us can say without a doubt that Rhaegar's actions were wrong. He's emphasized that we as readers have the benefit of hindsight that the characters don't and has mentioned that we still don't know everything about the rebellion. Until we have those specific details, we can neither demonize Rhaegar or absolve him. And I'm a patient reader, so I have not jumped to conclusions yet.I didn't say anything about them being right or wrong, I'm saying those actions show an obvious preference and concern for Lyanna over Elia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Yet, the Rhaegar-defenders consider it a fact that Lyanna went willingly. That's not outright stated in the books either. Rhaegar-defenders are legion, right? Every last one of them has the same thoughts and opinions with no difference? I personally believe that Lyanna went willingly and most of the tenants of the R+L=J theory, yet I always argue waiting for the full information of the rebellion. Twoiaf was a good start for more evidence, including the pact of ice and fire, but it is still not nearly the full story. A repost of my Rhaegar Targaryen had Aspergers Syndrome theory: wtf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 So Rhaegar should just ignore the prophecy and hope for the best? I'm sure when King Rhaegar starts hearing rumors about the dead rising north of the wall and the White Walkers attacking 20 years later he's going to regret not trying to fulfill the prophecy. Considering that he apparently got the prophecy wrong and acted on it at least two times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Its in the books dude, read them sometime without coming out with so much claptrap. where in the books .? You love to quote things from the book . please quote the prophecy , i would love to read it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfish Tully Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Considering that he apparently got the prophecy wrong and acted on it at least two times? so , he was trying to save the world . Should he just give up because he was wrong a couple of times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 wtf It means Rhaegar isn't a bad person, just someone who didn't understand what he was doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 so , he was trying to save the world . Should he just give up because he was wrong a couple of times? Trying to save the world with a 100% record of being utterly wrong and burning down a large part of the world? Good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 It means Rhaegar isn't a bad person, just someone who didn't understand what he was doing. My only comment: the less fans try to diagnose characters mentally the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Trying to save the world with a 100% record of being utterly wrong and burning down a large part of the world? Good job. Not to mention running off without telling anyone or explaining anything. Had he actually been around in King's Landing, war could probably have been prevented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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