LmL Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yes, the poster on reddit seems to have interpreted the SSM to mean that magic can have nothing to do with science whatsoever, which of course is not what it says. As you say Wizz the Smith, magic and science / nature seem intertwined in ASOAIF, so you just can't divorce the one from the other. The SSM is indeed responding to purely scientific explanations for the seasons which do not account for magic, which of course is not at all why I am doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizz-The-Smith Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Exactly, with his science fiction background, it's perhaps no surprise that he received such theories. But yourself and others have displayed the evidence that magic/science/nature does indeed seem intertwined within Asoiaf. A closer look at the SSM, as you say, reveals this is not what you are doing at all. Move on, it's all there for people to see, the evidence is strong IMO,and magic is included ! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yes, it's Ike saying the Doom of Valyria doesn't have a scientific explanation. The cause of the Doom was magical, surely, but the magic CAME FROM the volcanoes themselves. They harnessed and controlled this fire magic from the earth... until their control failed, and nature (magically enhanced nature) struck back with the long repressed "equal and opposite reaction." Did the the Doom have a scientific explanation? Not really - a volcanologist would not be able to solve the Doom. But the magic which DID cause the Doom was inextricably connected to nature and the element of fire, and the magical deeds used nature as a medium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Lunatics I tell you. Lunatics! Earthos may have had a second moon. Dinosaurs came from the moon. It is known. You need to take GRRM's comments almost like his written text. He uses a neurosurgeon's keyboard and uses double and triple entendres very, very often. Far more than you think. He is a genius. I have never seen anything like it. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yes, it's Ike saying the Doom of Valyria doesn't have a scientific explanation. The cause of the Doom was magical, surely, but the magic CAME FROM the volcanoes themselves. They harnessed and controlled this fire magic from the earth... until their control failed, and nature (magically enhanced nature) struck back with the long repressed "equal and opposite reaction." Did the the Doom have a scientific explanation? Not really - a volcanologist would not be able to solve the Doom. But the magic which DID cause the Doom was inextricably connected to nature and the element of fire, and the magical deeds used nature as a medium. Exactly, with his science fiction background, it's perhaps no surprise that he received such theories. But yourself and others have displayed the evidence that magic/science/nature does indeed seem intertwined within Asoiaf. A closer look at the SSM, as you say, reveals this is not what you are doing at all. Move on, it's all there for people to see, the evidence is strong IMO,and magic is included ! :P What makes this series so different is how it is grounded in realism, and there is a price to pay for going outside those bounds. It makes X-Men pew pew pew stuff seem childish. All indications point to full throttle high fantasy in the final book and a half. I hope it is medium fantasy. This is what makes it so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Yep, agree with everything you just said Daen. The grounding in realism is what makes this series appealing to so many people who do not usually read fantasy. However, I do think he is sneaking more and more of it in, very sneakily. I am often struck on re-reads just how triply and magical some sections of the book are. Very surreal... I'd say medium fantasy is coming. We kno we are going get another Long night... it's going to be more horror than fantasy, honestly. I think the show's one real success this year was Hardhome, and capturing the horror of a wight invasion. Mission accomplished... no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 Lunatics I tell you. Lunatics! Earthos may have had a second moon. Dinosaurs came from the moon. It is known. You need to take GRRM's comments almost like his written text. He uses a neurosurgeon's keyboard and uses double and triple entendres very, very often. Far more than you think. He is a genius. I have never seen anything like it. But sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Holy Shitballs, nice link! That is going right up on my blog-a-muffin... sweet. TY Daen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Holy Shitballs, nice link! That is going right up on my blog-a-muffin... sweet. TY Daen. It's a gluten free muffinmoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 Hello everyone who may be reading this thread. In the interest of avoiding confusion about the approach I am taking with my ASOIAF analysis, I am considering making a change to "Astronomy Explains the Legends of Ice and Fire" as the sort of "catch-all" title of my essays. I know this is really dumb and meaningless, I'm well aware. But hey, I'm a big nerd and you probably are too, so indulge me for a minute. A few people, not many, but a few, see the title and read the first part of my theory and get the idea that I am trying to explain magic with science, which is of course not at all what I am trying to do. What I am really using to "explain" the legends of I & F is the concept of mythology based on observations and experiences with nature, thousands of years in the past. It's astronomy is the most basic sense that whenever people observe the heavens and keep record, they are doing astronomy. Master Luwin is doing astronomy when he marks the position of the comet on a chart. Modern astronomy is a different animal, of course, and in ASOIAF all of the nature and astronomy is driven by magic. But that doesn't change the fact that the people of Planetos still experienced meteor showers, floods, earthquakes, and some sort of nuclear winter and eventually made legends about these events. If you read my theories you know more or less what I am talking about and what I am doing. So. A few ideas I have: Ancient Astronomy Explains the Legends of Ice and Fire The Ancient Astronomy of Ice and Fire The Magical Astronomy of Ice and Fire The Celestial Mythology of Ice and Fire The Esoteric Myth of A Song of Ice and Fire The Astronomical Legends of A Song of Ice and Fire (The) Astronomy & Myth of Ice and Fire The Devil's Telescope (I kid, I kid) Thoughts? Suggestions? This is your chance to rock the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share Posted July 22, 2015 My wife may have nailed it: The Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 My wife may have nailed it: The Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire You'll be sorry if you myth it. Thapphireth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 In case anyone is curious what I have been up to while the forum is stuck in a timeless netherworld of impermanence, I've got an essay that I am pretty excited about up on my wordpress page: The Language of Leviathan (the link is in my signature). I am waiting to post it here on the forum until the update happens, but it's there if anyone wants to read it. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durran Durrandon Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 My wife may have nailed it: The Mythical Astronomy of Ice and Fire This, or The Astrology of Ice and Fire.Yes, the poster on reddit seems to have interpreted the SSM to mean that magic can have nothing to do with science whatsoever, which of course is not what it says. As you say Wizz the Smith, magic and science / nature seem intertwined in ASOAIF, so you just can't divorce the one from the other. The SSM is indeed responding to purely scientific explanations for the seasons which do not account for magic, which of course is not at all why I am doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Green King Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I'm still thinking that 'Dawn' somehow might be made of a composite stone that includes Weirwood. It might be meteor material which came down on Weirwood trees and then cooled fast trough water that was around. Having Weirwood in it could account for the blade being different from either Fire or Ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 That's a very interesting idea - petrified weirwood turns to pale stone. Have you read Langiage of Leviathan, GreenKing? I've updated it a bunch in the past week, and I've beefed up the parts about greenseers and resurrected greenseers, fire sorcerers waking from burning wood, and Coldhands. You might be interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FacelessManOf TheShire Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I'm afraid there is one thing that you have forgotten about, which completely undoes the entire theory. Nah! Of course there isn't! Unbelievable amount of work here. I consider myself someone who can research and write essays, but this is something else. I usually get bored reading 'essays' on here. This is the first one I have read from start to finish with interest kept througout. Hat's of sir. I shall be reading your other work with interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigpiginsunspear Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 LmL, was just looking over your essays again, and wanted to point out that "Nissan" in Arabic means the month of April. For Assyrians or in Hebrew the word is also strongly associated with Spring (probably where the Arabic word came from). This could be a reference to "killing" Spring (you may have pointed that out already). Hope that somehow helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 12, 2015 Author Share Posted August 12, 2015 I know I did see that translation, but I honestly can't recall if it made its way into an essay. It may have something to do with the idea of the comet being "the sword that slays the seasons" - killing the spring, it's a very similar concept. ;) Thanks for the catch there! I always appreciate stuff like that. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LmL Posted August 15, 2015 Author Share Posted August 15, 2015 The new essay is up on the forums: The Language of Leviathan If you have taken a sneak peak at the draft form of this one my wordpress page, you still might want to take a glance at this, as I have edited it down quite a bit. I split off certain subjects to trim the essay way down, and then added a few more quotes that I have found recently as well as some speculation about pirates from Asshai. That's right, you heard me, pirates from Asshai. Cheers everyone, I hope you enjoy it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Master X Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 No idea if this has been posted, BUT I would assume not all the destroyed moon would have been corrupted/defiled by the comet smashing into it. Could the dawn meteorite (and thus Dawn the sword) at Starfall actually just be a piece of the destroyed moon that was blown off WITHOUT being corrupted? Technically we have moon pieces, comet pieces, and moon pieces corrupted with comet magic. I wonder if pieces of them all landed. I always had ideas that the others were heading south to get to that area. I won't get into it more, but the ideas were weird. I have a feeling certain things will go unexplained even at the end, and just left up to interpretation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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