M80Mormont Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Besides the fact that his chapters are fairly boring, I feel like his arc and progression don't make a lot of sense.He's at the Wall where they train, work and eat rations. He goes on a ranging for months, gets stranded and has to trek the wilds on his own. By the time he's on the ship to Oldtown he's still fat and still a craven. I just think it's unrealistic for him not to have undergone some kind of personal change or at least lose weight. It's mentioned that Grenn has experienced this change and obviously he's a ranger and happy to train and range etc.It's just frustrating that Sam isnt at least a little better than what he once was. I think the show did his prpgression a little better even if it was cringe worthy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 You're not alone there been quite a few threads recently about not liking samI don't like him much either he bores me but there has been some progression after the other he's a bit less scared and he had been losing weight he's just obese to start with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Cant stand him. I have been hoping that he would die from book 2 on........ Only thing coming up if his that I am interested in is Old Town. But that is only because I want to know about Jaquen/Pate, Alleras/Sallera, glass candles, maester training. Other then that his chapters bore me to death, dread to go through. He is boring, and annoying and really cant stand him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavey Sauce Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Besides the fact that his chapters are fairly boring, I feel like his arc and progression don't make a lot of sense.He's at the Wall where they train, work and eat rations. He goes on a ranging for months, gets stranded and has to trek the wilds on his own.By the time he's on the ship to Oldtown he's still fat and still a craven. I just think it's unrealistic for him not to have undergone some kind of personal change or at least lose weight. It's mentioned that Grenn has experienced this change and obviously he's a ranger and happy to train and range etc.It's just frustrating that Sam isnt at least a little better than what he once was. I think the show did his prpgression a little better even if it was cringe worthy as hell. As far as his weight its not like the NW is an army boot camp or an exercise club where he going to be forced to run and workout all the time. Yes some marching and training sparring, but not really any type of working out or things to do to shed weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Maybe because Sam's strength lies in his intelligence. His growth in character may come after he has spent time at the citadel gaining knowledge valuable to the NW in the coming battle against the Others, and the landing of dragons in Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katderoet3 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I think he is supposed to serve the same kind of purpose that Brienne mostly seems to fulfill. Large parts of her chapters are devoted to describing life in Westeros after the war and also inform the reader about Westerosi culture. One of Sam's functions seems to be giving us information about the historical background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katderoet3 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I've found that the last few times I've read his chapters I've disliked him less but the first time I was really bored during a lot of his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 His Storm chapters are a whinefest about how craven he is, and his Feast chapters are less interesting than watching fungi grow between a hobo's toes, not to mention they might as well come with a disclaimer by GRRM saying, "Look, I know these chapters are obvious filler, but I've got a page count to meet"That said, the one thing I like about his development is that he hasn't gone the cliche route of becoming all brave and heroic and shit. Like, some people stay cowards, but he still gets shit done, I like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blackmont Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 He just needs another good push. He's braver than he imagines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor the Articulate Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I find him likeable enough, but I also want to slap the shit out of him, every time he moans about how craven he is. His cowardliness is way overdone imo. Plus, the great lump got small Paul Killed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M80Mormont Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 His Storm chapters are a whinefest about how craven he is, and his Feast chapters are less interesting than watching fungi grow between a hobo's toes, not to mention they might as well come with a disclaimer by GRRM saying, "Look, I know these chapters are obvious filler, but I've got a page count to meet"That said, the one thing I like about his development is that he hasn't gone the cliche route of becoming all brave and heroic and shit. Like, some people stay cowards, but he still gets shit done, I like that.I can definitely appreciate the quality he holds in still acting despite being scared, I just think it's too unrealistic for someone to have gone through what he has without gaining anymore confidence at all.Two examples, even though they're relatively simple I'd still say they follow them same archetype of the coward.Stanley Yelnatz from Holes. I cant remember much, I read it when I was like 10. But I can remeber even then being satisfied with his transformation from coward to hero despite his failings.And Ron Weasley toward the end of the HP series. Again, I read these books when I was young too but as far as I can remember he becomes competent enough.My problem with Sam isnt his coward arc, his chapters or anything. I like that his path is the maesters path, I just think by this point he really shouldn't be a squeeling piggy anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I can definitely appreciate the quality he holds in still acting despite being scared, I just think it's too unrealistic for someone to have gone through what he has without gaining anymore confidence at all.Two examples, even though they're relatively simple I'd still say they follow them same archetype of the coward.Stanley Yelnatz from Holes. I cant remember much, I read it when I was like 10. But I can remeber even then being satisfied with his transformation from coward to hero despite his failings.And Ron Weasley toward the end of the HP series. Again, I read these books when I was young too but as far as I can remember he becomes competent enough.My problem with Sam isnt his coward arc, his chapters or anything. I like that his path is the maesters path, I just think by this point he really shouldn't be a squeeling piggy anymore.I agree that the cowardliness is way overdone, as Hodor the Articulate mentioned, and I do feel like kicking the shit out of him for being such a cartoony coward. But I think that not everyone changes or gets braver after life-threatening situations. Hell, look at PTSD. Or I don't know, maybe my subconscious makes imagine Sam as the awesomeness that is Coward the Cowardly Dog saving Muriel to make him more tolerable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubal Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I find him likeable enough, but I also want to slap the shit out of him, every time he moans about how craven he is. His cowardliness is way overdone imo. Plus, the great lump got small Paul Killed! Wasn't Paul part of the plot to betray their brothers before the wight attack changed everything? (I may be misremembering this). As far as his development goes, we are told that he grew up to be a fat craven with no idea how to handle a sword despite the attention of several masters-at-arms, surely forcing him to train with sword and shield over what was presumably a period of years would have had some sort of positive effect. When he arrives at Castle Black it's like he's never held a sword before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Patroclo Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I like all his chapters, his post-trauma attitude and mindset are very realistic and nods at the psychology books I'm fond of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Jack_ Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 His story should get better at the citadel where he doesn't just walk around complaining about the cold and boat trips and how pathetic he is.Maybe he will do something interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Lord of Stygai Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I like him as a person, but hate him as a character. Does that make any sense? During my first (and only) read of AFFC, his and Brienne's chapters bored me to tears. I almost cried out of happiness when the index for Dance didn't have either as POV. His only redeeming feature is that I want to find out what's going on at the Citadel. Other than that.....well, I guess he did kill an Other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apovsic Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Not this thread again ... :wideeyed: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thi4f Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I don't like him too and don't really care about his progress or success. He has many cringeworthy moments, and voyage to Oldtown is possibly the worst storyline of AFfC...Is it really worse than Arys POV, imprisoned Arianne and Doran playing cyvasse? Mmmm. Of course it is! At least he hasn't turned into a hero yet, as GG Garlan mentioned earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaIsAWheel Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 In be4 da LOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criston of House Shapper Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Do we need another one of these? It's been only a week or so since the last Sam-hate-thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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