FC_Lymond Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The closer you look at the TOJ, the more plot holes you see. It shouldn't be the mysterious centerpiece to such a giant story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Two words: Jon Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrunesThatWasPromised Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Daenerys chapters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby b's bobby Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Rodrick Cassell inability to military and dany getting the unsullied the way she did took me right out of the story suspension of disbelief shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Selig Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The first thing I can think about is actually very specific. I loved everything I read and I found it all very realistic till I arrived at a certain Cat chapter, I don't remember which one it was exactly but she was with her dying father and he said the word "Tansy" and from the one word Catelyn proceeded to conclude that Hoster forced Lysa to abort her unborn child. I found that kind of unrealistic, she'd need to get at least a little more information to come to that conclusion, no person can figure that out from just one word that they don't even know what it means until they also conclude that somehow. I felt like it was a bit of lazy writing on GRRM's part, that he needed to find a way to tell us that history of Lysa but he couldn't find a more realistic way to do it, or was too lazy to try. That's just a small complaint though in my opinion, overal the books are some of the best I've read. Hoster said quite a bit more than just "Tansy", . He said "Dead. You'll have others...sweet babes and trueborn". So it wasn't that far-fetched IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INCBlackbird Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hoster said quite a bit more than just "Tansy", . He said "Dead. You'll have others...sweet babes and trueborn". So it wasn't that far-fetched IMO. ah yes true, i'd forgotten about that. But I still think it was quite far fetched, none of that is very clear imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The length of time it takes. The bad guys constantly one-upping everyone not named Dany (a trend that looks to continue into Winds). Yes, these are certainly irritants. I like Dany but the girl is "just a girl."Just the sheer amount of sexual violence against women and no that's not how it was back then. This is the thing I find most distasteful. I skim those sections with no apology. They just feel like an outlet for repressed sexual frustrations that I want no part of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God-of-Toasters Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 My biggest criticism is somewhat of a double edged sword. The pacing in the books by POV can be really cool, and often keeps me reading to see new or old favorite characters, but there seems to be a lot of filler. I don't want to sit through a trillion Catelyn Stark chapters just to get to a character I like. In addition, some regions of the world are much cooler than the others (the Reach, Essos) but they're not as focused on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The first thing I can think about is actually very specific. I loved everything I read and I found it all very realistic till I arrived at a certain Cat chapter, I don't remember which one it was exactly but she was with her dying father and he said the word "Tansy" and from the one word Catelyn proceeded to conclude that Hoster forced Lysa to abort her unborn child. I found that kind of unrealistic, she'd need to get at least a little more information to come to that conclusion, no person can figure that out from just one word that they don't even know what it means until they also conclude that somehow. I felt like it was a bit of lazy writing on GRRM's part, that he needed to find a way to tell us that history of Lysa but he couldn't find a more realistic way to do it, or was too lazy to try. That's just a small complaint though in my opinion, overal the books are some of the best I've read. Well she did ask around to find out if there had been a woman at RR named Tansy. It was only when that line of inquiry was a dead end that deduced "Tansy" meant the herb used to abort. Since Lysa's tragic event included the forced use of such herbs, it wasn't really a jump to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The first thing I can think about is actually very specific. I loved everything I read and I found it all very realistic till I arrived at a certain Cat chapter, I don't remember which one it was exactly but she was with her dying father and he said the word "Tansy" and from the one word Catelyn proceeded to conclude that Hoster forced Lysa to abort her unborn child. I found that kind of unrealistic, she'd need to get at least a little more information to come to that conclusion, no person can figure that out from just one word that they don't even know what it means until they also conclude that somehow. I felt like it was a bit of lazy writing on GRRM's part, that he needed to find a way to tell us that history of Lysa but he couldn't find a more realistic way to do it, or was too lazy to try. That's just a small complaint though in my opinion, overal the books are some of the best I've read. It comes from more than just "Tansy" as DS said. She listens to his delirious ramblings for quite some time, she knows Lysa won't come and see their dying father, but that Hoster seems to desperately want to speak with her. There is actually quite a lot of stuff leading to her realisation, it's just quite spread out (due to other POvs between chapters) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Lack of gratuitous sex scenes. I have a vivid imagination and it's wasted on sexless POV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dragons Hand Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Its fans. (As you can tell, I'm great at making friends) Actually? The sex scenes, but even they are hilarious bad. Brienne's middle chapters, about going to a place, killing some dudes and leaving. ETA: Apparently I can't even use the correct form of "Its" when making a ton of enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Sharya Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Lack of gratuitous sex scenes. I have a vivid imagination and it's wasted on sexless POV's. ;) You are a trouble maker.:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Fat pink mast and Myrish swamp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greenseer Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 The length of time it takes. The bad guys constantly one-upping everyone not named Dany (a trend that looks to continue into Winds). This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Chase Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Too few meal descriptions. Cannot stop laughing at this! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Chase Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 This is the thing I find most distasteful. I skim those sections with no apology. They just feel like an outlet for repressed sexual frustrations that I want no part of. Yes, there's a section in Feast where Qarl the Maid rapes Asha Greyjoy and forces her to like it. Horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 For me, it's the inconsistency with relatives and descendants, and just how obviously plot driven it can be. Houses are realistically portrayed as having many living descendants as they would have after thousands of years, while others seem to survive on one branch throughout the years and are just waiting around long enough to die out at the right time. Even when they'd realistically have lots of relatives by this point. Ie the Lannisters, Tyrells, and Freys as opposed to the Baratheons, Tullys, and almost all the Northern houses. I agree. They were fine for thousands of years, and it's not like RR was the first war ever. They survived the Others, the first man vs children of the forest, Andals invasion, Targ invasion, all those wars for supremacy in the north, harsh winters, spring sickness, hunger... Maybe all those Starks, Tullys, Baratheons and Arryns died because they choked on a lamprey pie during a feast, or in a grotesque mishap, or in tourney accident or in spring sickness or in a giant suspicious fire or they were crushed to death by a rock hurled from the battlements of Starpike? So, I also thing it is a bit difficult to believe that Aerys and Rhaella were the only one left. Yes, there is incest, but that is all. Some say that it totally makes sense that Targs almost died out because they have a taint, a lot of idiots in a family and because they were trying to kill each other. But this is basically normal for all noble families. They all participated in same wars, spring sickness affected them all etc. And let's look at the last generation of Lannisters. Tytos was completely incompetent, Gerion was an idiot, Tywin and Cersei both tried to kill Tyrion and the other way around. And Cersei is mad. But they are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 But my biggest problem is portrait of mental illness in series. It is very stereotypical and in a negative way. It is only reinforcing stigma and all those myths about mental illness. I actually find it offensive and hurtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnViserion Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 ;) You are a trouble maker. :) B) Fat pink mast and Myrish swamp. :rofl: Just the best descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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