Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Nights Kings Queen

Clarification on Mirri Maz Durr

Recommended Posts

I've seen too many times on this forum, how Mirri Maz Durr didn't betray Dany at all but tried to help her.
This simply isn't true.
Here's where the clarification is needed.

"She did heal drogo, but drogo didn't follow her instructions. That isn't MMD's fault". No it's not. But have you considered she might have known the ointment would be too unbearable. And the impersonation of a healing mother figure ("This old, homely, thick-bodied woman did not look like a maegi to her."
"All men are one flock, or so we are taught. The Great Shepherd sent me to earth to heal his lambs, wherever I might find them") was a simple tactic to gain Daenerys's trust?

Daenerys's killed her own child by walking into the tent. Mirri Maz Durr never killed Rhaego - is not true.
MMD did sacrifice Rhaego for a vegetable version of Drogo. Have you ever considered how timely, and coincidental it was that Dany went into an early labour the minute she walked out the tent, and the minute MMD started her ritual.
I've never been in labour, but this reads like a very odd unnatural first contraction

She tried to rise, and agony seized her and squeezed her like a giant's fist. The breath went out of her; it was all she could do to gasp. The sound of Mirri Maz Duur's voice was like a funeral dirge. Inside the tent, the shadows whirled.
An arm went under her waist, and then Ser Jorah was lifting her off her feet. His face was sticky with blood, and Dany saw that half his ear was gone. She convulsed in his arms as the pain took her again, and heard the knight shouting for her handmaids to help him. Are they all so afraid? She knew the answer. Another pain grasped her, and Dany bit back a scream. It felt as if her son had a knife in each hand, as if he were hacking at her to cut his way out.

Her son was dying before Dany walked into the tent. Walking into the tent (I think) gave her dragons each a bit of Rhaego's lifeforce. But her son didn't die because she was carried into the tent.

ETA - According to the app MMD did use sorcery to draw Rhaego from Dany's womb, so a trade between Rhaego and Drogo's life could take place (http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/135104-clarification-on-mirri-maz-durr/?p=7322079)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my mind there is no question about this, MMD tells Dany she knew the price (Rhaego) so obviously she sacrificed Rhaego.  As far as the ointment, it seems strange to me that it would be unbearably painful to such a tough guy as Drago, thus I assume it was not an effective healing method, however that is not nearly as certain as her sacrificing Rhaego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She was asked to heal Drogo and she did. How the eff his her mistake that he didn't followed her orders? She had clearly told Dany that she shouldn't enter the tent and Jorah moved her there. How the eff is her problem. Even Dany herself thinks that Jorah killed her son. The text you have quoted is more about a premature labour and how the eff is that MMD's mistake? As for if Rhaego was dead we don't know that and even if he was stillbirths is a common thing. What is next she should had cut Dany's and Drogo's food like mothers do to their infants because they cannot chew on their own?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dany went into early labor because she was shoved to the ground violently by Qotho (trauma) and threatened to be killed (stress).

 

MMD did not need to kill Rhaego. No khal would leave before bashing his head if Rhaego lived.

 

All the evidence suggests that Rhaego was a typical Targaryen monstrosity that runs in the family.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She was asked to heal Drogo and she did. How the eff his her mistake that he didn't followed her orders? She had clearly told Dany that she shouldn't enter the tent and Jorah moved her there. How the eff is her problem. Even Dany herself thinks that Jorah killed her son. The text you have quoted is more about a premature labour and how the eff is that MMD's mistake? As for if Rhaego was dead we don't know that and even if he was stillbirths is a common thing. What is next she should had cut Dany's and Drogo's food like mothers do to their infants because they cannot chew on their own?

As I said, I've never been in labour or had a child, but from what I've read and from what I've heard, first contractions (like the one dany had) should feel like period pains (not "my sons got two knives and is cutting at my womb") Then it gets more painful.
"How the eff is that MMD's mistake" Magic :dunno:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, I've never been in labour or had a child, but from what I've read and from what I've heard, first contractions (like the one dany had) should feel like period pains (not "my sons got two knives and is cutting at my womb") Then it gets more painful.
"How the eff is that MMD's mistake" Magic :dunno:

:bs:  Dany had been injured and in late pregnancy this along with stress can cause premature labour. I think that you just try to blame MMD, without having any real evidence, because you cannot accept that what Dany did was monstrous.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is people making these convulated situations to show MMD did it all on purpose to lead to the event.

 

For example: "she slowly poisoned him" or "she made the poultice too itchy so he wouldn't heed her advice".

 

:bang:

 

He was dying of blood poisoning and gangrene because he put mud on a surface wound. If you want to ensure your wound gets infected, go outside, grab some mud and cake the wound with it. If she wanted him dead, she could have simply killed him in a more direct way, than relying on the chance that he wouldn't follow her instructions. Heck, she could just have shut her mouth, and have him put mud on it from the get go. Once Drogo's dead, the Dothraki would have killed her child anyway. MMD didn't need to do anything to kill Drogo and Rhaego - just let him paste mud on his wound from the start, and let the Dothraki kill Dany's child.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:bs:  Dany had been injured and in late pregnancy this along with stress can cause premature labour. I think that you just try to blame MMD, without having any real evidence, because you cannot accept that what Dany did was monstrous.

Its funny how worked up people are getting.
Have you considered how timely Daenerys's premature labour was?
Your quote works the other way round as well. I think you're trying to justify MMD, without any real evidence (while also denying the dramatic change in her character later on) because you cannot accept that Dany isn't a mustache twirling, evil eyed, villain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Justifying would mean that people defend MMD of doing what Dany and some readers believer her to have done. Nobody is justifying it. We're outright denying that MMD did any of the convulated stuff she's accused of doing.

 

As for timely. It didn't happen spontaneously. She was near her time, she was shoved and the stress rocketed sky high on top of the stress she already felt with Drogo falling from his horse. It's Drogo's men who made it so timely. And their behaviour wasn't born out of thin air either. They had threatened to kill MMD from the moment she even offered to cure his wound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't get is people making these convulated situations to show MMD did it all on purpose to lead to the event.
 
For example: "she slowly poisoned him" or "she made the poultice too itchy so he wouldn't heed her advice".
 
:bang:
 
He was dying of blood poisoning and gangrene because he put mud on a surface wound. If you want to ensure your wound gets infected, go outside, grab some mud and cake the wound with it. If she wanted him dead, she could have simply killed him in a more direct way, than relying on the chance that he wouldn't follow her instructions. Heck, she could just have shut her mouth, and have him put mud on it from the get go. Once Drogo's dead, the Dothraki would have killed her child anyway. MMD didn't need to do anything to kill Drogo and Rhaego - just let him paste mud on his wound from the start, and let the Dothraki kill Dany's child.

It wasn't by chance. If she wanted to make the poultice unbearable (which it sounded like it was) she could have made it unbearable.
And besides. Killing Drogo wasn't all she wanted. She also wanted Rhaego's death.
It isn't that implausible, like its being made out to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It wasn't by chance. If she wanted to make the poultice unbearable (which it sounded like it was) she could have made it unbearable.
And besides. Killing Drogo wasn't all she wanted. She also wanted Rhaego's death.
It isn't that implausible, like its being made out to be.

 

Surest way of having Drogo and Rhaego die and not being accused of having anything to do with it for MMD is to "do absolutely nothing". MMD knows what Dothraki use for "remedies", because she trained with some, and thus she also knows what happens to (unborn) babies of khals who die.

 

Let his own healers ensure he gets gangrene with their mud. Drogo dies. Khalasar will take care of Rhaego.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Justifying would mean that people defend MMD of doing what Dany and some readers believer her to have done. Nobody is justifying it. We're outright denying that MMD did any of the convulated stuff she's accused of doing.
 
As for timely. It didn't happen spontaneously. She was near her time, she was shoved and the stress rocketed sky high on top of the stress she already felt with Drogo falling from his horse. It's Drogo's men who made it so timely. And their behaviour wasn't born out of thin air either. They had threatened to kill MMD from the moment she even offered to cure his wound.

Yes they are.
I've seen posts saying how Mirri hatched Dany's Dragons, and never intended Rhaego or Drogo's death. A lot of people are justifying it.
I would buy into the explanation your giving for Dany's birth, if Mirri didn't outright state Rhaego was the price for saving Drogo (through blood magic)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Have you considered how timely Daenerys's premature labour was?

If Dany wasn't injured and stressed you might be right. But she was. She was injured and stressed and she went to premature labor. You are acting like the babies are born just went they have to be born without being affected from what the mother goes through and they just popped out into their beds.  :bang:  :bang:  :bang:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Dany wasn't injured and stressed you might be right. But she was. She was injured and stressed and she went to premature labor. You are acting like the babies are born just went they have to be born without being affected from what the mother goes through and they just popped out into their beds.  :bang:  :bang:  :bang:

Once again, why are you getting so worked up?
And you may be right, if MMD didn't admit to Dany that she used Rhaego as a sacrifice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes they are.
I've seen posts saying how Mirri hatched Dany's Dragons, and never intended Rhaego or Drogo's death. A lot of people are justifying it.
I would buy into the explanation your giving for Dany's birth, if Mirri didn't outright state Rhaego was the price for saving Drogo (through blood magic)

 

MMD talks in hindsight. She would know it would come at a high price, but not exactly which. She's not a spirit or demon. But she probably knows that those demons and spirits may draw in people. That's why she explicitly warned Dany not to come into the tent for anything. And she didn't say it for reverse-psychology reasons either.

 

MMD didn't say that she used Rhaego as a sacrifice. Nor does MMD say that MMD knew. She said that Dany knew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Surest way of having Drogo and Rhaego die and not being accused of having anything to do with it for MMD is to "do absolutely nothing". MMD knows what Dothraki use for "remedies", because she trained with some, and thus she also knows what happens to (unborn) babies of khals who die.

 

Let his own healers ensure he gets gangrene with their mud. Drogo dies. Khalasar will take care of Rhaego.

 

Maybe she simply wanted a part to play in Drogo's down fall.

 

Revenge is only revenge if it's by your own actions. I too think she played a part in Drogo's death, but that's just from recently rereading the chapters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Maybe she simply wanted a part to play in Drogo's down fall.

 

Revenge is only revenge if it's by your own actions. I too think she played a part in Drogo's death, but that's just from recently rereading the chapters.

 

And rereading the chapters convinced me she had nothing to do with it at all.

 

Still makes no sense to play in Drogo's death by using the correct healing methods. She knows the healer methods of the Dothraki. If she wanted revenge and no be accused of it, she could have applied the mud herself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 

Once again, why are you getting so worked up?

Ιt's not me who started a thread in order to attack someone's opinions because I cannot accept that my fav character was a monster on that case.

And you may be right, if MMD didn't admit to Dany that she used Rhaego as a sacrifice.

If that is what you believe tell me again how Cat didn't wanted Jon death. Because just like Cat, MMD was emotionally compromised and of course she said some mean things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And rereading the chapters convinced me she had nothing to do with it at all.

 

Still makes no sense to play in Drogo's death by using the correct healing methods. She knows the healer methods of the Dothraki. If she wanted revenge and no be accused of it, she could have applied the mud herself.

 

The lady is clearly a con artist. She plays the whole "all children are part of the great heard" line one moment and is summoning demons the next.

 

The fact that a strong guy like Drogo couldn't keep a bandage on is also something I found strange.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you may be right, if MMD didn't admit to Dany that she used Rhaego as a sacrifice.

 

If you believe in everything MMD said, then you should admit that Dany is no less guilty and monstrous than MMD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×