How could the Greyjoys hold Moat Cailin?

[Toos]

I don't think that matters. Balon can chose to accept or ignore Tywin's terms until he isn't being punished with his massive fleet making the iron islands very secure. At least until the royal fleet can be rebuilt and even then it took Stannis the royal and Redwyne fleet to stop the ironborn last time. So basically the peace terms are up to Balon more than Tywin.

Iron Fleet is in North, so Iron Islands are pretty defenceless.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Iron Fleet is in North, so Iron Islands are pretty defenceless.

They still have at least a few hundred ships enough to trouble the reach in AFFC. The in book number is a thousand but that's likely an exaggeration.

[Toos]

They still have at least a few hundred ships enough to trouble the reach in AFFC. The in book number is a thousand but that's likely an exaggeration.

Aren't these ships Iron Fleet plus longships? And we know how Aeron's longship end after meeting with Stannis' ship.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Aren't these ships Iron Fleet plus longships? And we know how Aeron's longship end after meeting with Stannis' ship.

Some of the ships attacking the reach would have been the iron fleet at least 90 but that's still hundreds of longships enough to ensure the ironborn are safe.

Right stannis ship the royal fleet and the Redwyne fleet and the royal fleet burned fighting on 2 sides on the Blackwater.

[Frey Pie]

I think it makes sense that Vic left around a thousand at the Moat. These were split between the garrison, guarding the ship and transport of goods over the land. What do they all have in common? They're dead

The northern invasion was a folly, people should be able to recognise that. It did cost lives and gained them not a single cent. The Moat is great for the northern people but you need the Reeds onside to hold it. Vic and his 10000 would have had to march north for supplies eventually

As for the deal with Tywin....never going to happen. Tywin had plenty of more palatable options. Tbh I always saw Tywin mentioning balon as a way if curtailing Cersei ie. Getting her to stop her moaning

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

They couldn't Martin isn't exactly a logistician, but this is especially stupid, they had no way of transporting large quantities of food there, if we are generous and assume there were 400 defenders and they had enough food for a year it wouldn't last 10,000 Ironborn half a month.

 

Transporting food from the Iron Islands shouldn't be an option, not only would it have to go overland for a full days march, there probably isn't enough of a grain surplus to supply so many in the field.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

They still have at least a few hundred ships enough to trouble the reach in AFFC. The in book number is a thousand but that's likely an exaggeration.

Enough to trouble the Reach with barely any warships. The Redwyne fleet will be on them soon, Euron won't be smiling then, since he just sent away his only ships and warriors that are near their equal.

[Bobby b's bobby]

Enough to trouble the Reach with barely any warships. The Redwyne fleet will be on them soon, Euron won't be smiling then, since he just sent away his only ships and warriors that are near their equal.

How big is the Redwyne fleet? Not sure if it will be as easy as you think.

[Ser Arthur Hightower]

How big is the Redwyne fleet? Not sure if it will be as easy as you think.

200 ships, each with ~100 oarsmen and a complement of 30-50 soldiers.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

The northern invasion was a folly, people should be able to recognise that. It did cost lives and gained them not a single cent. The Moat is great for the northern people but you need the Reeds onside to hold it. Vic and his 10000 would have had to march north for supplies eventually

 

It wasn't folly. It was actually incredibly successful, more so than Balon originally planned. Once Balon died the new leadership changed objectives but while he was alive it was going well.
 

As for the deal with Tywin....never going to happen. Tywin had plenty of more palatable options. Tbh I always saw Tywin mentioning balon as a way if curtailing Cersei ie. Getting her to stop her moaning

He had better options because others were willing to sell Robb out. I'm not sure Balon could have predicted how much Robb would piss of his own men,

[Toos]

 

It wasn't folly. It was actually incredibly successful, more so than Balon originally planned. Once Balon died the new leadership changed objectives but while he was alive it was going well.
 

He had better options because others were willing to sell Robb out. I'm not sure Balon could have predicted how much Robb would piss of his own men,

What was incredibly succesful about his camapign? Some always say how succesful it was but I never understand why.

 

Iron Fleet is sitting in Moat Cailin doing nothing expect getting killed by cranogmen. They didn't even block Robb's connection with North, because MC can be bypass with cranogmen help and Iron Islands are left defenceless againts Redwyne fleet(and maybe even Lannister fleet). Plus MC can't be properly supplied. Asha took after month Deepwood Motte, which is pretty useless. Theon raided Stony Shore. And this was all Balon's plan, there isn't second wave waiting to advance to inland or something else. He didn't even control land around MC, DM or Winterfell. So what was succesful about this all?

 

Because GRRM needed Stark's defeat, Rodrik became idiot, Torrhen Square can't defend itself againts 200 Ironborn, etc.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

How big is the Redwyne fleet? Not sure if it will be as easy as you think.

 

Two hundred warships strong (their merchant fleet is five times that size).

[Caspoi]

One of the reasons why Tywin was reluctant to offer Cersei as a bride is because it would mean an Alliance with the Ironborn, and seriously if Balon's plan wasn't independece then he wouldn't have declared himself king, pretty logical.

[toffeejay]

 

I recall the either moat filled with a lot of dead bodies when Theon arrives. I assume Vic had to have left  a decent amount of people to hold the line.

 

I thought they were from the Bolton attack?
Once the Ironborn surrender one of the Boltons remarks how few there were expecting more as they had been repelled days before. Ramsay tries to big himself up as he's avoided further losses by using Reek to surrender the castle.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
I thought they were from the Bolton attack?
Once the Ironborn surrender one of the Boltons remarks how few there were expecting more as they had been repelled days before. Ramsay tries to big himself up as he's avoided further losses by using Reek to surrender the castle.

Were the bodies not all rotting as of they had been lying there for a while?

[Frey Pie]

It wasn't folly. It was actually incredibly successful, more so than Balon originally planned. Once Balon died the new leadership changed objectives but while he was alive it was going well.
 
He had better options because others were willing to sell Robb out. I'm not sure Balon could have predicted how much Robb would piss of his own men,

Yes his plan was going perfectly if you take into account the stuff that wasn't in his plan in any way shape or form I.e. Theon taking winterfell, the taking/death of the north's heirs, the civil war in the east of the north, the ineptitude of Ser Rodrik.

And again cherry picking at its finest. To say that you must also acknowledge that Balon had no idea that Stannis or Renly wouldn't sit on the throne. That Robb wouldn't have beaten Tywin in the field, that Robb wouldn't have bent the knew etc etc. Balon knew sweet fuck all and just went with his emotions and attacked the north. Bending his knee was not part of his plan either. The smartest part of his plan was taking Moat Cailin and even that was a death trap

[thelittledragonthatcould]

What was incredibly succesful about his camapign? Some always say how succesful it was but I never understand why.

 

 

He had objectives and those objectives were met. That is were the success comes in. Pretty simple.

 

"You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw."

 

✓ Completed

 

"Asha my daughter," Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, "you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them."

 

✓Completed

 

"Victarion," Lord Balon said to his brother, "the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up Saltspear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you will be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas.

 

✓Completed

 

 

And here is how it was incredibly successful.

 

"The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."

 

They took Winterfell ahead of schedule.

[Toos]

 

He had objectives and those objectives were met. That is were the success comes in. Pretty simple.

 

"You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw."

 

✓ Completed

 

"Asha my daughter," Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, "you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them."

 

✓Completed

 

"Victarion," Lord Balon said to his brother, "the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up Saltspear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you will be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas.

 

✓Completed

 

 

And here is how it was incredibly successful.

 

"The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."

 

They took Winterfell ahead of schedule.

So Rob was incredibly succesful too? Distract Tywin with Roose's army - check, defeat Jaime's army - check, invade Westerlands - check, etc. And he failed in his ultimate goal because he was murdered.

 

What Balon achieved with his campaign? He didn't get land, gold, etc. At best he got revenge in exchange for son, 1/10 of Iron Fleet, etc.

[Bobby b's bobby]

 
He had objectives and those objectives were met. That is were the success comes in. Pretty simple.
 
"You are to harry the Stony Shore, raiding the fishing villages and sinking any ships you chance to meet. It may be that you will draw some of the northern lords out from behind their stone walls. Aeron will accompany you, and Dagmer Cleftjaw."
 
✓ Completed
 
"Asha my daughter," Lord Balon went on, and Theon turned to see that his sister had slipped in silently, "you shall take thirty longships of picked men round Sea Dragon Point. Land upon the tidal flats north of Deepwood Motte. March quickly, and the castle may fall before they even know you are upon them."
 
✓Completed
 
"Victarion," Lord Balon said to his brother, "the main thrust shall fall to you. When my sons have struck their blows, Winterfell must respond. You should meet small opposition as you sail up Saltspear and the Fever River. At the headwaters, you will be less than twenty miles from Moat Cailin. The Neck is the key to the kingdom. Already we command the western seas.
 
✓Completed
 
 
And here is how it was incredibly successful.
 
"The lords are gone south with the pup. Those who remained behind are the cravens, old men, and green boys. They will yield or fall, one by one. Winterfell may defy us for a year, but what of it? The rest shall be ours, forest and field and hall, and we shall make the folk our thralls and salt wives."
 
They took Winterfell ahead of schedule.

How does any of that give them the north? They held 4 castles 2 of which weren't part of the plan and 1 of the 2 which are planned can't really be held long.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

So Rob was incredibly succesful too? Distract Tywin with Roose's army - check, defeat Jaime's army - check, invade Westerlands - check, etc. And he failed in his ultimate goal because he was murdered.

 
Have you actually read the books? Robb went South to free his father and sisters and he failed.
 
All of Balons objectives were met. He died, people do so. His death was unconnected with him taking the North.
 

What Balon achieved with his campaign? He didn't get land, gold, etc. At best he got revenge in exchange for son, 1/10 of Iron Fleet, etc.

Whine all you want, he had objectives and he completed them. He was successful.

How does any of that give them the north? They held 4 castles 2 of which weren't part of the plan and 1 of the 2 which are planned can't really be held long.

It gives them part of the North.