Does Arya survives at the end and furthers the stark family line through gendry?

[purple-eyes]

No, it is not. Missy's special treatment is most likely connected to her, ehm, contribution to her family's interests and should really be examined in the context of Blackwood-Bracken feud, Barba, and some "teats" changing hands.

actually most of time it is.

Just ask lord butterwell, Barbra's father, alicent's father, felia's husband, etc. plus the comments about dragon seeds. 

Even lynesse, we did not see house Hightower felt angry at her. Instead they seemed her help. 

it is glorious and very beneficial to the family. 

This means king favors your girl. And this is a honor most of the time. 

 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

actually most of time it is.

Just ask lord butterwell, Barbra's father, alicent's father, felia's husband, etc. plus the comments about dragon seeds. 

it is glorious and very beneficial to the family. 

This means king favors your girl. And this is a honor most of the time. 

 

Alicent married the king. Lord Butterwell is an uplifted cattle breeder. Dragon seeds' mothers were lowborn. Barba Bracken and her sister are, as I said before, connected to a very specific feud, strong enough to transcend proprieties. And, who is Felia?

Also you might want to remember how much "honored" Megette's husband felt about it.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I think it's quite clear that nobody is going to make Arya marry -  or do anything else, for that matter.  Even were her father still alive, he would probably be unable to make her marry someone she disliked or didn't respect.   However, could Jon, for example, or Sansa, persuade her that marriage was her duty - that it was necessary for the well-being of the 7 Kingdoms or House Stark?  Sure.  Remember her mother's words:  Family, Duty, Honor.  Even so, she would likely exert some control, refusing to marry someone she disliked or didn't respect.

I think, at the end of the series, Westeros will be in a devastated condition.  For the remaining nobility, especially those from prominent families such as the Starks, it will likely be "all hands on deck."  Everyone will need to take a leadership role, and marry and produce children to keep things going.  As for Gendry, I think her marrying him is essentially a fantasy.  There are too many differences, particularly including class and education for it to work out in the long run, imo.  But if she makes it to the end, I do believe she will end up married.  As for waiting to adulthood, I think the story will end before that happens, unfortunately.  RIP, 5 year gap.

Agree with some of this. I like the idea of Arya and Gendry, since I've always liked romances that begin as friendships, but I think GRRM pretty much signaled strongly he was dismissing it with that pastoral "Featherbed" song. His remark about them having separate paths pretty much is the nail on the coffin. (For readers of Little Women, Gendry is sort of like Laurie to Arya's Jo. Very different stories, very different characters and circumstances, but there are echoes of it in a childhood friendship that ends because of the realities of romance, adulthood, and incompatibilities.)

That said, I disagree that Arya has to enter a traditional marriage with a highborn lord. First, after all this mess is done, lordlings of her rank will be in fairly short supply; second, the assumption that "Family, Duty, Honor" will mean the same thing after all is said and done as it does now is a pretty big one. She doesn't have to marry to procreate, nor does she have to be in a lifelong heterosexual monogamous relationship that is marriage in all but name. 

Another point I rarely see made is that legally, as of this point in canon, both Arya and Sansa are married, and to men who in the pre-chaos order at the beginning of AGoT would have never been viewed as suitable candidates for either Stark girl. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion hasn't yet been annulled, and to Westeros, Arya is legally married to Ramsay Bolton, a bastard who was acknowledged and legitimized, not exactly a candidate for her hand under normal circumstances... who was born a bastard. Yes, of course, Sansa and Tyrion's marriage can easily be (and likely will be) annulled, and it will be known before the end that Arya didn't really marry Ramsay, but still, it is significant that the Stark girls are now tied to "bastards, cripples, and broken things" in interesting ways that subverts the usual tropes of princesses/ladies/little girls in danger.

[purple-eyes]

Alicent married the king. Lord Butterwell is an uplifted cattle breeder. Dragon seeds' mothers were lowborn. Barba Bracken and her sister are, as I said before, connected to a very specific feud, strong enough to transcend proprieties. And, who is Felia?

Also you might want to remember how much "honored" Megette's husband felt about it.

I am talking about alicent was rumored to sleep with viserys before marriage. If this is true, Neither her or her father feel it bad to sleep with king when aemma is still alive. 

Butterwell is very powerful, he used to be hand I think. He was rich by cattles, then what? He is still a high born man. 

Felia is first mistress of aegon IV. Maybe some misspelling? Can not check at this point. A Storkworth. 

Her husband was set as lord of harrenhal due to her and later as king's hand and both his wife and daughter served as king'a mistresses. 

Meg's husband is a commoner. He can not get something like lordship for this. And his wife left him to live in KL I think. So He did not gain much except seven gold dragons

 

 

[ShadowCat Rivers]

^Thanks for Felia, or whatever her name was.

All that those cases prove is that some people will happily overlook things such as reputation and honour (or "honour", if one prefers) if that can further their interests. But it does not prove that it's generally seen as something great and glorious, to me at least.

But I think this is a side topic that derails the thread, so let's agree to disagree, for now.

[purple-eyes]

Agree with some of this. I like the idea of Arya and Gendry, since I've always liked romances that begin as friendships, but I think GRRM pretty much signaled strongly he was dismissing it with that pastoral "Featherbed" song. His remark about them having separate paths pretty much is the nail on the coffin. (For readers of Little Women, Gendry is sort of like Laurie to Arya's Jo. Very different stories, very different characters and circumstances, but there are echoes of it in a childhood friendship that ends because of the realities of romance, adulthood, and incompatibilities.)

That said, I disagree that Arya has to enter a traditional marriage with a highborn lord. First, after all this mess is done, lordlings of her rank will be in fairly short supply; second, the assumption that "Family, Duty, Honor" will mean the same thing after all is said and done as it does now is a pretty big one. She doesn't have to marry to procreate, nor does she have to be in a lifelong heterosexual monogamous relationship that is marriage in all but name. 

Another point I rarely see made is that legally, as of this point in canon, both Arya and Sansa are married, and to men who in the pre-chaos order at the beginning of AGoT would have never been viewed as suitable candidates for either Stark girl. Sansa's marriage to Tyrion hasn't yet been annulled, and to Westeros, Arya is legally married to Ramsay Bolton, a bastard who was acknowledged and legitimized, not exactly a candidate for her hand under normal circumstances... who was born a bastard. Yes, of course, Sansa and Tyrion's marriage can easily be (and likely will be) annulled, and it will be known before the end that Arya didn't really marry Ramsay, but still, it is significant that the Stark girls are now tied to "bastards, cripples, and broken things" in interesting ways that subverts the usual tropes of princesses/ladies/little girls in danger.

I understand this from the opposite way from yours.

Sansa was not really married. It will be treated as an invalid one.

Arya was not married at all. 

Grrm really cares about their virginity, they did not lose it after so much chaos, for what? 

I predict that sansa may marry aegon. Carry his child but died eventually. 

And arya's maidenblood is likely saved for job snow. 

Jon snow is the ultimate hero in this book, I think he will get a virgin woman later. Can you imagine arwen the even star is a ruined woman? this perfect maid is likely arya. 

[Jaime4Brienne]

How can you say this about Arya, and yet your username is "Jaime for Brienne?"

Jaime is Arya's parents' age, and people believe that he can be redeemed. This was a man in his 30s who pushed a little boy out of a window.

Arya's a child trying to survive. How come Jaime can recover and be "for Brienne," but little Arya can't grow up to have a pack family of her own? I don't get it...

Seriously? There is a huge difference. Brienne is an adult and so is Jaime.  Also if it was some kid I didn't know or my own kid I would push the kid to protect my son. I've said everything I'm going to say about Arya,  you obviously haven't read what I previously wrote because I said someone had a good point up thread which is similar to yours. Ship Gendry and Arya and ship the Easter Bunny and Santa for all I care!

[hardhome]

Technically Arya is still betrothed to Elmar Frey.  But if her marrying anyone happens in the story it is likely to not be Gendry. Technically he is only an unlanded knight and/or a (prentice?)smith.  If Arya marries anyone during the story it is likely to be someone who's allegiance will end the war, and not start a new one.  I can think of only a few people who might meet that criteria.  SR, HtH, LF, Trystane (if Myrcella dies), Aegon, Tommen (if Margery dies), and Jon Connington.  Of course Jon Snow might be an option as well but that has a lot of issues attached to make it unlikely at the very least.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Seriously? There is a huge difference. Brienne is an adult and so is Jaime.  Also if it was some kid I didn't know or my own kid I would push the kid to protect my son. I've said everything I'm going to say about Arya,  you obviously haven't read what I previously wrote because I said someone had a good point up thread which is similar to yours. Ship Gendry and Arya and ship the Easter Bunny and Santa for all I care!

Actually, your post that I responded to was about the (im)possibility of Arya's redemption, which I find curious for someone who believes that Jaime Lannister, who is an adult in his 30s, is a more redeemable character than a little girl who isn't even 12 years old yet.

If Jaime can be redeemed, then Arya is still a candidate for sainthood.

[Arya-Jon]

Technically Arya is still betrothed to Elmar Frey.  But if her marrying anyone happens in the story it is likely to not be Gendry. Technically he is only an unlanded knight and/or a (prentice?)smith.  If Arya marries anyone during the story it is likely to be someone who's allegiance will end the war, and not start a new one.  I can think of only a few people who might meet that criteria.  SR, HtH, LF, Trystane (if Myrcella dies), Aegon, Tommen (if Margery dies), and Jon Connington.  Of course Jon Snow might be an option as well but that has a lot of issues attached to make it unlikely at the very least.

Unlikely? Jon Arya incest was a big part of the initial outline of Grrnm. And Jon's last line at his death was "Stick it with the Pointy end" . Which is an ode to Arya.

There is a no way to prove that he has abandoned it, especially considering the immense references to Arya in ADWD.  The Mercy chapter had some sexual references.

Try out this post as it basically sheds more light on their immense love which is 95% platonic, but foreshadows a future reunion as husband and wife. wife http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/125364-jon-arya-hints-and-overall-significance-of-their-relationship-including-part-3/

Jon has many king references in his narrative. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/79816-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up/

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/134678673174/why-arya-will-be-queen-and-rule-for-some-years
And  Arya has some queen references as in the above post. So this could be highly likely. Jon is a patrineal Targ. And Arya is a Patrineal Stark. So it fits the Song of Ice and Fire meaning too, which in itself has multiple meanings.

The possiblity of Arya marrying Aegon is very less: There is a line Arya thought  when Eddard questioned her about needle "I will never betray Jon, not even to my father" or something to that tune. And Arya would want someone who accepts her as she is. Someone who would love her even if she is a killer. As she herself admits Jon is the only person who would love her without caring about who she killed.

[Joan Jett]

*enters shipper mode* 

( In referenct to the post about Arya being forced to marry) Just my personal opinion here, but I think that Arya just might want to marry Jon Snow at some point.  See foreshadowing below:

More recently, the youngest of Lord Yronwood's daughters had taken to following him about the castle. Gwyneth was but twelve, a small, scrawny girl whose dark eyes and brown hair set her apart in that house of blue-eyed blondes. She was clever, though, as quick with words as with her hands, and fond of telling Quentyn that he had to wait for her to flower, so she could marry him. - Quentyn, ADWD

 "Could his sister truly have escaped such captors? How would she do that? Arya was always quick and clever, but in the end she’s just a little girl..." - Jon, ADWD

(Shout out to AryaNymeriaVisenya for pointing this out)

This girl has dark eyes like Arya and brown hair like Arya and she is set apart from the rest of her siblings because of it (like Arya). She is also small and scrawny like Arya and clever and quick like Arya. The differences are that Gwyneth is 12 and has a man she wants to marry. Arya will eventually turn 12, most likely in the next book. There's some connections that exist between Jon and Quentyn. Quentyn thought that he had dragon blood, but Jon actually does. Also Jon may also be a potential 'suitor' for Dany like Quentyn was.  Now for the marriage part...

By this time Jon's parentage will(probably) have been revealed. Arya/Jon will be aware that they are cousins, not siblings. And yet their mushy feelings for each other will remain. I'm not exactly sure how the marriage will be proposed, but I'm sure that there will be multiple forces pushing them together besides Arya wanting to get married. It will be a happy arrangement. (pls tell me if I sound too wishful)

And there's also this:

“Marriages and inheritance are matters for the king, my lady. I will write to Stannis on your behalf, but..." -Jon, ADWD

Jon has way more 'King' hints in the series than I can remember. The fact that he arranges a marriage for Alys, an Arya proxy, makes it even better. And as always there's the "You will marry a King" quote from all the way back in book one which also works with this.

 Anyway I can't envision an ending where Arya and Jon are not at least locationally together at the end. They just think about each other way too much.    It's not the same with Gendry. He's just not that essential to her 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Unlikely? Jon Arya incest was a big part of the initial outline of Grrnm. And Jon's last line at his death was "Stick it with the Pointy end" . Which is an ode to Arya.

There is a no way to prove that he has abandoned it, especially considering the immense references to Arya in ADWD.  The Mercy chapter had some sexual references.

Try out this post as it basically sheds more light on their immense love which is 95% platonic, but foreshadows a future reunion as husband and wife. wife http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/125364-jon-arya-hints-and-overall-significance-of-their-relationship-including-part-3/

Jon has many king references in his narrative. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/79816-a-king-in-hiding-adding-it-all-up/

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/134678673174/why-arya-will-be-queen-and-rule-for-some-years
And  Arya has some queen references as in the above post. So this could be highly likely. Jon is a patrineal Targ. And Arya is a Patrineal Stark. So it fits the Song of Ice and Fire meaning to, which in itself has multiple meanings.

The possiblity of Arya marrying Aegon is very less: There is a line Arya thought  when Eddard questioned her about needle "I will never betray Jon, not even to my father" or something to that tune. And Arya would want someone who accepts her as she is. Someone who would love her even if she is a killer. As she herself admits Jon is the only person who would love her without caring about who she killed.

Why can't Arya's feelings for Jon, Gendry, and all these other guys she's known since childhood be platonic? This girl has a horde of male friends. She doesn't have to fall into a predictable trope just because she's a girl. Her world doesn't have to be that limited or small.

If she's destined for a romance before the end, why can't she take a Braavosi sellsword as a lover? Or a pirate from the Stepstones? What in the world is wrong with bringing a new character in for her who doesn't have Westerosi he-man brain? If there's a POV character who would do the unconventional, it's her. Clearly, GRRM took her to Essos instead of the Wall (as he planned in the original outline) for a reason.

[Arya-Jon]

*enters shipper mode* 

Just my personal opinion here, but I think that Arya just might want to marry Jon Snow at some point.  See foreshadowing below:

(Shout out to AryaNymeriaVisenya for pointing this out)

This girl has dark eyes like Arya and brown hair like Arya and she is set apart from the rest of her siblings because of it (like Arya). She is also small and scrawny like Arya and clever and quick like Arya. The differences are that Gwyneth is 12 and has a man she wants to marry. Arya will eventually turn 12, most likely in the next book. There's some connections that exist between Jon and Quentyn. Quentyn thought that he had dragon blood, but Jon actually does. Also Jon may also be a potential 'suitor' for Dany like Quentyn was.  Now for the marriage part...

By this time Jon's parentage will(probably) have been revealed. Arya/Jon will be aware that they are cousins, not siblings. And yet their mushy feelings for each other will remain. I'm not exactly sure how the marriage will be proposed, but I'm sure that there will be multiple forces pushing them together besides Arya wanting to get married. It will be a happy arrangement. (pls tell me if I sound too wishful)

And there's also this:

Jon has way more 'King' hints in the series than I can remember. The fact that he arranges a marriage for Alys, an Arya proxy, makes it even better. And as always there's the "You will marry a King" quote from all the way back in book one which also works with this.

 Anyway I can't envision an ending where Arya and Jon are not at least locationally together at the end. They just think about each other way too much.    It's not the same with Gendry. He's just not that essential to her 

The Yornwood one is a great find. Plus even in the show, he is referred to as "King Crow" by the wildings. Not Lord Crow or something of that tune. And I have seen some pics of him on the throne. He certainly looks the best in it (as compared to other characters ) Lol. Especially with Ghost by his side.

[Arya-Jon]

Why can't Arya's feelings for Jon, Gendry, and all these other guys she's known since childhood be platonic? This girl has a horde of male friends. She doesn't have to fall into a predictable trope just because she's a girl. Her world doesn't have to be that limited or small.

If she's destined for a romance before the end, why can't she take a Braavosi sellsword as a lover? Or a pirate from the Stepstones? What in the world is wrong with bringing a new character in for her who doesn't have Westerosi he-man brain? If there's a POV character who would do the unconventional, it's her. Clearly, GRRM took her to Essos instead of the Wall (as he planned in the original outline) for a reason.

"A heart in conflict is the only thing worth writing about"

This is one of Grrrm's mottos. In fact that's why I think he included incest in such a big way. I think he planned for Arya-Jon incest even before Cersei-Jamie. 

Incest despite being siblings in Grrm' mind just fits his idea of a heart in conflict. And thats something you could notice in his outline.

I can understand Arya being conflicted about loving a Bravosi pirate. But incest is a whole different ballgame. You are feeling passionate about someone, are feeling attracted towards someone despite yourself. Despite knowing it is forbidden love and a sin.

[Trotsky]

Arya likely won't survive because GRRM had not planned her to until his wife told him she was her favorite character or something like that if I recall. While GRRM might have changed the ending following that, as he had to adapt keeping Arya alive, it's improbable in the context that it's GRRM who's deciding. He had already an ending and it won't change because Arya survives, so her part will remain in the shadow as it is right now, me thinks. Additionally, GRRM might give her a special death to honor her character, but she has gone far too aloof of the Westerosi high society to join back and act like "a proper lady". If anything she'll become even more prominent in Braavos or if GRRM decides to keep her alive despite his ending plan, she could very well be a useful assassin for the Crown (if Jon becomes King or whatever). However, shipping her with Jon is a funny thought to me, but I doubt there's anything sexual between the two, just a deep sibling love like Ned had for Lyanna for instance (even if they're actually cousins). 

[Joan Jett]

"A heart in conflict is the only thing worth writing about"

This is one of Grrrm's mottos. In fact that;s why I think he included incest in such a big way. I think he planned for Arya-Jon incest even before Cersei-Jamie. 

Incest despite being siblings in Grrm' mind just fits his idea of a heart in conflict. And thats something you could notice in his outline.

I can understand Arya being conflicted about loving a Bravosi pirate. But incest is a whole different ballgame. 

Actually I sort of think that the "heart in conflict with itself" quota was filled a bit during the fArya debacle. Jon was torn about staying true to his vows and going to save Arya. In return Arya also had a love vs. duty thing involving Needle aka Jon Snow's smile. Perhaps she will be faced with conflict again once news of Jon's 'death' reaches her? 

As for the J/C and J/A comment, there are many parallels between the sibling pairs, for good reason too. I have a feeling that the series will start and end w/ an incest couple. 

Getting back to the "heart in conflict with itself" motto, that's actually a big part of what makes Jon x Dany boring to me. There's no conflict if they fell in love and married. That's what millions of people expect them to do. They'd just be pretty pretty heroes in love. 

[Arya-Jon]

Arya likely won't survive 

Ned had for Lyanna for instance (even if they're actually cousins). 

I have written a piece on why Arya will survive (be queen) on Tumblr. Just wanted to share it with you. And your assumption that Grrm did not have Arya as Queen in his initial endgame is mostly wrong. There are many hints to the contrary which I have shared in the post below.

That said I do think she will die after ruling for some years.

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/134678673174/why-arya-will-be-queen-and-rule-for-some-years

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I know that the Arya and Jon shippers really have tons invested in her becoming Jon's wife and Queen in future canon because of the Waterstones letter, but I worry that you're underestimating George's propensity for subverting the expected. Just because it was in the original outline doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

(Granted, these may be famous last words, as I'm famously wrong on shipping. Been right once or twice in 20 years! All the same, I can't see it.)

The best part in all this is that we'll likely know something by 2017 or 2018, one way or the other. I can't think Arya's fate in the series will differ too much from that in the books... TWOW, where are you?

[Arya-Jon]

Actually I sort of think that the "heart in conflict with itself" quota was filled a bit during the fArya debacle.

I dont think Grrm has any quota at all. He would include as much as he can.as long as long as he can include it ,without diverting from the narrative. He loves to torture our characters that way.

I still wont rule at Jon/Dany as a possiblity because GRRM has paved the way for polygamy by introducing Aegon as having two wives. Plus there certainly is some foreshadowing.

Marrying Dany would almost certainly mean Jon pressing his claim to the iron throne. So there is some conflict there. For Dany, I think there would be quite a lot of people who would be uncomfortable with that. Maybe Tyrion. Maybe Jorah .Who knows? 

I think that the decision of Dany to support Jon's claim would lead to some betrayals for her and ultimately to her death. Maybe that betrayal would be the betrayal for love.

 

[purple-eyes]

"A heart in conflict is the only thing worth writing about"

This is one of Grrrm's mottos. In fact that's why I think he included incest in such a big way. I think he planned for Arya-Jon incest even before Cersei-Jamie. 

Incest despite being siblings in Grrm' mind just fits his idea of a heart in conflict. And thats something you could notice in his outline.

I can understand Arya being conflicted about loving a Bravosi pirate. But incest is a whole different ballgame. You are feeling passionate about someone, are feeling attracted towards someone despite yourself. Despite knowing it is forbidden love and a sin.

I think grrm is quite careful here. He certainly does not want people feel he is praising sibling incest.