Meera of Tarth Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 19 minutes ago, The Princess of Ghosts said: My answers to these questions are I hope and I hope (meaning: please, GRRM grant me some happiness). It would be a really nice parallel between Robert/Lyanna and Arya/Gendry (with mutual love this time) and I'm a sucker for this near fairy tale ending. I am more troubled with Arya's attitude towards sex (in her TWOW chapter) than her kill list. In fact it troubles me quite a bit. Hopefully after she leaves the FM, seeing familiar faces will rekindle her merciful side. What's wrong with her attitude? She does what she does in order to avenge her friend. The trouble is in the others who do what they do to her without taking into account the possible consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Princess of Ghosts Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 25 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: What's wrong with her attitude? She does what she does in order to avenge her friend. The trouble is in the others who do what they do to her without taking into account the possible consequences. I, by no means, blame Arya for her attitude, I just find it very unsettling. The only other woman that behaved similarly at such a young age (Arya, though not for much more, is still a child) is Cersei and it makes me think of her "Tears are not a woman's only weapon" speech. Cersei is not exactly a role model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 2 hours ago, The Princess of Ghosts said: I, by no means, blame Arya for her attitude, I just find it very unsettling. The only other woman that behaved similarly at such a young age (Arya, though not for much more, is still a child) is Cersei and it makes me think of her "Tears are not a woman's only weapon" speech. Cersei is not exactly a role model. Cersei uses sex to make puppets out of men and to attain power. Arya flirts to get her target in a private location and vulnerable to kill him. She's not being trained to become the world's best fighter, but to disarm people that are taller, bigger, stronger and more skilled than her in handling a weapon. She's being trained as an assassin. That's the disturbing part imo. But I find it completely logical that as a girl/woman she'll have to resort to other tactics than a male assassin would. I don't think it's comparable to Cersei at all, because she's not using it for favors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faceless Man Friday Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 Following the theme that the Starks are magical; that they all have some long hidden relationship with death through the crypts at Winterfell, Arya Stark is a death goddess. She brings death not life. There will be no fairy tale ending for her unless its the Grimm kind. She will most likely be part of the ending of the story that GRRM has called "bittersweet". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCat Rivers Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, Faceless Man Friday said: She will most likely be part of the ending of the story that GRRM has called "bittersweet". The thing is, I am not so sure what exactly is GRRM's idea of bittersweet, but I've seen along the way many, and amply varying, end game speculations by readers - all claiming to comply with the bittersweet notion. Consider the scenario where she ends up as the sole survivor out of all her family and friends: some people would call it success and file it under "sweet" while in my opinion it is a very depressing outcome. So, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 39 minutes ago, Faceless Man Friday said: Following the theme that the Starks are magical; that they all have some long hidden relationship with death through the crypts at Winterfell, Arya Stark is a death goddess. She brings death not life. There will be no fairy tale ending for her unless its the Grimm kind. She will most likely be part of the ending of the story that GRRM has called "bittersweet". That's the most obvious thing to think of. Arya wants revenge and kills people=she is the death. Her plot is much more than this. and she is not a plain character at all to sum up her person into that idea. it's not gonna be easy but I'm confident that, as a major character, her arc will develop from that in fact into something different and possibly facing mixed feelings in the process. We could also make a list of all the character that have death in their arc and some people would be surprised to know that this applies to a great variety of them. As for bittersweet, that depends on the reader and the idea of bittersweet Martin was referring to. Maybe he was referring to the general plot, but surely some characters will have a happy or bittersweet ending. Not everyone will be miserable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 On 04.10.2016 at 0:02 AM, Faceless Man Friday said: She brings death not life. I fell this does not correctly characterise Arya. All persons she killed (see for the list http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Arya_Stark) had either: - endangered her life directly - harmed/killed frriends of her (which in general she witnessed directly) The only exceptions being: - the Squire at the last fight with Sandor Clegane at the Crossroads Inn (which she later sort of regretted) - the Braavosi insurance salesman (it was part of her training and ordered by the Faceless Men) - the deserter of the Night's Watch (Dareon) in Braavos (applying sort of her father's justice to such deserters) She did not kill innocent people for ensuring her position (the usual reason it is done for by cretins like Cersei, Littlefinger etc.). And what about Arya was all but death? She brought life as well, to all those she considered her "pack", for people she considered innocent and tried to hinder Sandor Clegane from doing them harm (I have no quotations at hand though). In fact she befriends and loves people in general. Without regarding if these people are low born, ugly or whatsoever. Who else in the books is so selfless and charming as her? Focusing her down to be just an assasin does neglect this warm and supporting side of hers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said: I fell this does not correctly characterise Arya. All persons she killed (see for the list http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Arya_Stark) had either: - endangered her life directly - harmed/killed frriends of her (which in general she witnessed directly) The only exceptions being: - the Squire at the last fight with Sandor Clegane at the Crossroads Inn (which she later sort of regretted) - the Braavosi insurance salesman (it was part of her training and ordered by the Faceless Men) - the deserter of the Night's Watch (Dareon) in Braavos (applying sort of her father's justice to such deserters) She did not kill innocent people for ensuring her position (the usual reason it is done for by cretins like Cersei, Littlefinger etc.). And what about Arya was all but death? She brought life as well, to all those she considered her "pack", for people she considered innocent and tried to hinder Sandor Clegane from doing them harm (I have no quotations at hand though). In fact she befriends and loves people in general. Without regarding if these people are low born, ugly or whatsoever. Who else in the books is so selfless and charming as her? Focusing her down to be just an assasin does neglect this warm and supporting side of hers. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a black swan Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 On 03/10/2016 at 11:02 PM, Faceless Man Friday said: Following the theme that the Starks are magical; that they all have some long hidden relationship with death through the crypts at Winterfell, Arya Stark is a death goddess. She brings death not life. There will be no fairy tale ending for her unless its the Grimm kind. She will most likely be part of the ending of the story that GRRM has called "bittersweet". I dispair. Truly. Honestly. When the Gold Class attacked, Arya saves 2 kinds of of lives: The most wretched (Bitter, Rorge) and the most innocent, a 3 year old orphan girl nobody cared about. Quote As they were running toward the barn, Arya spied the crying girl sitting in the middle of the chaos, surrounded by smoke and slaughter. She grabbed her by the hand and pulled her to her feet as the others raced ahead. The girl wouldn’t walk, even when slapped. Arya dragged her with her right hand while she held Needle in the left. Ahead, the night was a sullen red. The barn’s on fire, she thought. Flames were licking up its sides from where a torch had fallen on straw, and she could hear the screaming of the animals trapped within." ... Hot Pie stepped out of the barn. “Arry, come on! Lommy’s gone, leave her if she won’t come!” Stubbornly, Arya dragged all the harder, pulling the crying girl along. Hot Pie scuttled back inside, abandoning them… […] At the sound of her voice, Weasel came creeping out from the bushes. Lommy had named her that. He said she looked like a weasel, which wasn’t true, but they couldn’t keep on calling her the crying girl after she finally stopped crying. Her mouth was filthy. Arya hoped she hadn’t been eating mud again. (It's interesting that Arya also ate mud) ... “Did you see people?” asked Gendry. “Mostly just roofs,” Arya admitted, “but some chimneys were smoking, and I heard a horse.” The Weasel put her arms around her leg, clutching tight. Sometimes she did that now. […] “I don’t know about fish.” Arya tugged at the Weasel’s matted hair, thinking it might be best to hack it off. “There’s crows down by the water. Something’s dead there.” (Arya's hair is just as bad. This transference is on another level!) ... […] “I’m sick of carrying him, and I’m sick of all his talk about yielding too. If he could stand up, I’d knock his teeth in. Lommy’s no use to anyone. That crying girl’s no use either.“”You leave Weasel alone, she’s just scared and hungry is all.“ Arya glanced back, but the girl was not following for once. (Hunger. Something Arya knows very well) ... […] "She ran off when she heard you coming,” Lommy said. “You made a lot of noise." And Arya thought, Run, Weasel, run as far as you can, run and hide and never come back. (That's exactly what Arya has been doing since she escaped the Red Keep) Arya brings Weasel to life again when she takes her name at Harrenhal. That poor little girl was a reflection of Arya without the wolf-blood and the single-minded will to live and protect her pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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