Does Arya survives at the end and furthers the stark family line through gendry?

[Light a wight tonight]

Arya is 11 not 9 in Adwd. Right now there is nothing romantic or sexual abt their relationship. It is just that they miss each other a lot and just feel happy being around each other; making each other  smile etc and can do almost anything for each other. But there are a lot of textual hints that point to a future romantic relationship.  Think we will get to know whether it will actually happen come winds of winter

I'd have to say that there are at least as many hints at a future relationship with Gendry. In-story she interacts with him a lot more, and she acts jealous when he pays attention to Bella (his half-sister). I don't particularly favor either Jon or Gendry as a future partner for Arya. It seems like people have sort of a need to "ship" her with someone even though she's so young. 

[Arya-Jon]

I'd have to say that there are at least as many hints at a future relationship with Gendry.

I would recommend you to read this post by ice turtle in case you have not. Try out the post by ice turtle in  page 1(for game of thrones hints) ,10 (for ASOS hints) and 13 (for AFFC and ADWD hints). I suspect you would change your mind about "at least  as many" part. Thats 6 pages full of hints.

As far as Arya-Jon shipping goes the blame squarely falls in Grrm's shoulders as he left so many hints. And of course the outline too partially where Arya Jon were a couple.

If Grrm had toned down the Arya Jon thing from say A Game of thrones to ADWD , then it would be confirmed that he has changed his mind from the outline. But in ADWD the Jon Arya thing is just going stronger  and is at least as powerful as in Game of Thrones.

No romance yet though. 

 

[Light a wight tonight]

I would recommend you to read this post by ice turtle in case you have not. Try out the post by ice turtle in  page 1(for game of thrones hints) ,10 (for ASOS hints) and 13 (for AFFC and ADWD hints). I suspect you would change your mind about "at least  as many" part. Thats 6 pages full of hints.

I've found that generally speaking the longer the exposition the less believable the concept. It's pretty apparent from your user name that you have a desire to believe this. I was able to read only a part (does the expression TLDR resonate?) and found it quite unconvincing.

 

 

[Arya-Jon]

I've found that generally speaking the longer the exposition the less believable the concept. It's pretty apparent from your user name that you have a desire to believe this. I was able to read only a part (does the expression TLDR resonate?) and found it quite unconvincing.

 

 

When you are listing the hints it has to be long as you would ideally include all the hints you find. When you are explaining a theory its different. But here you are listing all the hints and giving a view on it.  

Finding it unconvincing without reading the whole part is your choice though.

As far as my username is concerned, I did not ship Jon Arya at all. I would never have expected a  11 year old to love her 16 year old brother in a romantic way. I  believed they would end up at different places and with different people. That I chose this username was partially because I was convinced by the arguments presented by Ice Turtle. I did my own research (shorthand for digging into the books) and I was quite convinced that he/she was right.

So after all this digging/rereading the books, I came up with a possible endgame based on Grrm hints ,foreshadowing and quotes

Will leave it for you here in case you dont find it TLDR 

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/132985969484/my-predicted-asoiaf-endgame-based-on-grrms-hints

And yeah, despite my user name I am quite open about any other possiblities as long as they have textual evidence. Jon/Dany for example.

[Light a wight tonight]

When you are listing the hints it has to be long as you would ideally include all the hints you find. When you are explaining a theory its different. But here you are lising all the hints and giving a view on it.  

Finding it unconvincing without reading the whole part is your choice though.

As far as my username is concerned, I did not ship Jon Arya at all. I would never have expected a  11 year old to love her 16 year old brother in a romantic way. I  believed they would end up at different places and with different people. That I chose this username was partially because I was convinced by the arguments presented by Ice Turtle. I did my own research (shorthand for digging into the books) and I was quite convinced that he/she was right.

So after all this digging/rereading the books, I came up with a possible endgame based on Grrm hints ,foreshadowing and quotes

Will leave it for you here in case you dont find it TLDR 

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/132985969484/my-predicted-asoiaf-endgame-based-on-grrms-hints

And yeah, despite my user name I am quite open about any other possiblities as long as they have textual evidence. Jon/Dany for example.

There's a saying that you don't need to eat the whole omelet to tell the egg is bad. I've seen numerous topics that are total tinfoil-beanie grade with plenty of people agreeing. Six pages of that doesn't impress me a lot.

As to your ideas for an endgame to the books, I can't say that I'm particularly curious. Unless it includes Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun on the Iron Throne  and Dany's Amazing Dragons eaten up by Krakens.

[Arya-Jon]

There's a saying that you don't need to eat the whole omelet to tell the egg is bad. I've seen numerous topics that are total tinfoil-beanie grade with plenty of people agreeing. Six pages of that doesn't impress me a lot.

Ah ,of course it is tinfoil if you say so. Who knows better than you (except Grrm and the show directors ). Maybe I should quit believing in it too  

Though I would LMAO if  the tinfoil proves to be correct .

[SilentDystopia]

Jon is her loved one actually. So if Jon is alive in the end, I don't see why Arya would willingly choose to be separated from him. Also, all the Stark children have been damaged one way or the other. Ned Stark too was damaged from the war. Damage doesn't always result in someone giving up on life. If that's the case, then all the remaining Starks will die by the end of ADOS.

Yes Jon is her loved one so is Sansa and Rickon and Bran, her father, her mother....etc.

Ned Stark wasn't a child though Ned Stark was a grown man who know war unlike Arya who is a child solider. Different things happen to a persons mind when age is a factor. And if Arya needs to be with someone (which i think is just so much no) for me its Gendry since he can qualify for a loved on, but logically if they have to force her to be a lady its should be Ned Dyane he would be good to her. And I gave two examples of what can happen. Either she lives and has to deal with the ghosts of her past. Or she dies and goes with her loved ones in the old gods heaven. I just don't see this Jon/Ayra thing going on. So much was changed from that outline, If you want Jon/Ayra give me king Jamie! make Tyrion fall in love with Ayra, make Sansa even more a bitch!

[Light a wight tonight]

Ah ,of course it is tinfoil if you say so. Who knows better than you (except Grrm and the show directors ). Maybe I should quit believing in it too  

Though I would LMAO if  the tinfoil proves to be correct .

I didn't say that this was tinfoil; I said that I'd seen plenty of that with pages of agreement. OK? You noted that there were 6 pages to the topic, but the exposition ceratainly wasn't that long, so it seemed to me that you were saying that the fact that there were 6 pages made it more authoritative. What I did say was that I found what I read of it unconvincing. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see the books finish before Arya reaches puberty anyhow, and she never gets into a romantic relationship at all.

Heh.

 

[MMOWarrior]

Arya and Gendry..  never going to happen...  it is so painfully obvious...  Arya is a Lesbian!..  

just this evening I saw the episode when Eddard laid out Arya's life..  Noble Husband.. raise noble children.. run the household of keep... and what was her response... "That's Not Me"..  ya... cuz she's a baby dyke!

 

[Winter's Cold]

Yes Jon is her loved one so is Sansa and Rickon and Bran, her father, her mother....etc.

Ned Stark wasn't a child though Ned Stark was a grown man who know war unlike Arya who is a child solider. Different things happen to a persons mind when age is a factor. And if Arya needs to be with someone (which i think is just so much no) for me its Gendry since he can qualify for a loved on, but logically if they have to force her to be a lady its should be Ned Dyane he would be good to her. And I gave two examples of what can happen. Either she lives and has to deal with the ghosts of her past. Or she dies and goes with her loved ones in the old gods heaven. I just don't see this Jon/Ayra thing going on. So much was changed from that outline, If you want Jon/Ayra give me king Jamie! make Tyrion fall in love with Ayra, make Sansa even more a bitch!

Jon is the person she loves most even more than her other family members. Who's going to force Arya to be a lady? None of the other Starks are capable of that and Jon is probably the only person she would listen to. Arya will marry whoever she wants to marry or she won't marry at all. From Arya's perspective, Gendry left her to join the Brotherwood and Edric Dayne is not someone who she is familiar with. It's not just the outline that has indications for a potential Jon/Arya relationship. His dying thoughts in ADWD are about Arya.

[Nerevanin]

 I love to think of Gendry and Arya (but only as a fanfic :D) I much rather see Sansa help Rickon become a good LP of the north once the Starks are back in Winterfell. (Hopefully ) I don't see arya going back to the norm too much damage done to her. Watched a movie about a child solider in Africa, he wanted a normal life back after everything has happen and he finally was in safety but its just not going to happen. Luckily he had help of therapy to slowly move on. But Arya doesn't have that. Either she dies by biting more than she can chew (but she gets to be with her loved ones *Mom, Dad, Brother*) or she travels and tries to run away from the ghosts of the people she love (she lives, but shes is tormented from her past). Bittersweet! 

I get what you mean and I think the same thing. At this moment Arya seems to have strayed too far from the sidewalk and after everything she's seen and done, it seems practically impossible for her to eventually throw all this away and be a sophisticated lady sitting on the wolf carved throne in Winterfell and a devoted mother. She's changed too much. Although other characters like Sansa, Bran, Jon, Brienne, Jaime etc have seen a lot of injustice and death just like Arya, unlike her keep trying. Arya, on the other hand, at least in my opinion, has given up on hope, love, faith and she's become numb, restless and seeking revenge and wanting to kill. Although she is still very young, she doesn't seem interested in love at all and probably she isn't even capable of it anymore...  

[Meera of Tarth]

 

I get what you mean and I think the same thing. At this moment Arya seems to have strayed too far from the sidewalk and after everything she's seen and done, it seems practically impossible for her to eventually throw all this away and be a sophisticated lady sitting on the wolf carved throne in Winterfell and a devoted mother. She's changed too much. Although other characters like Sansa, Bran, Jon, Brienne, Jaime etc have seen a lot of injustice and death just like Arya, unlike her keep trying. Arya, on the other hand, at least in my opinion, has given up on hope, love, faith and she's become numb, restless and seeking revenge and wanting to kill. Although she is still very young, she doesn't seem interested in love at all and probably she isn't even capable of it anymore...  

Agree that she would have hard time to be a sophisticated lady because she has never wanted to be like that, and after the events she has lived it becomes more complicated (especially if the next two books cover approx.2 years (or less) and considering that the worst is to come.

However, I don't consider she has given up on love or faith. As I see it, she is devastated, but she has demonstrated she has wits and a strong sense of recovery before. However, I agree that it is very possible she is not interested in love ("romantic" love)

When you are listing the hints it has to be long as you would ideally include all the hints you find. When you are explaining a theory its different. But here you are listing all the hints and giving a view on it.  

Finding it unconvincing without reading the whole part is your choice though.

As far as my username is concerned, I did not ship Jon Arya at all. I would never have expected a  11 year old to love her 16 year old brother in a romantic way. I  believed they would end up at different places and with different people. That I chose this username was partially because I was convinced by the arguments presented by Ice Turtle. I did my own research (shorthand for digging into the books) and I was quite convinced that he/she was right.

So after all this digging/rereading the books, I came up with a possible endgame based on Grrm hints ,foreshadowing and quotes

Will leave it for you here in case you dont find it TLDR 

http://arya-jon-tyrion.tumblr.com/post/132985969484/my-predicted-asoiaf-endgame-based-on-grrms-hints

And yeah, despite my user name I am quite open about any other possiblities as long as they have textual evidence. Jon/Dany for example.

I've read the links you posted and I find them very interesting. Especially the one about that line of the dialog that may be a reference to the ending of aDoS (I think there should be a thread only about that) and also that one about "father to queens".

Answering the OP, I don't think that Arya will further the Stark line through Gendry; however, I don't believe she will do it with Jon.

After reading all the points of view and seeing Arya as I've read her, I just can't see her becoming the wife of someone if she survives, at least not in a near future (I don't discard anything in 10-20 year's time). But that's because it would be too rushed, considering her age and intentions of present Arya (I am not referring to the fact that she is too damaged, just that she is very independent).

However, there is a possibility that she will find love and I think (after reading this thread and a lot of other threads, along with my perception of the books) that Jon and Gendry are the only ones with strong possibilities and similar possibilities to be the one she may choose if it is to happen in a near future.

[Arya-Jon]

I've read the links you posted and I find them very interesting. Especially the one about that line of the dialog that may be a reference to the ending of aDoS (I think there should be a thread only about that) and also that one about "father to queens".

Thanks. I shall start a thread soon on that. 

 

[Arya-Jon]

 

I've read the links you posted and I find them very interesting. Especially the one about that line of the dialog that may be a reference to the ending of aDoS (I think there should be a thread only about that) and also that one about "father to queens".

 

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/136544-a-possible-answer-to-the-mystery-line-of-dialog-in-the-got-book-which-is-very-important-in-the-last-scene-of-ados/

Here it goes. I am a newbie and this is the first topic I have posted. So if you feel I should make any changes in the content/heading, feel free to message the same 

[hallam]

Arya and Gendry..  never going to happen...  it is so painfully obvious...  Arya is a Lesbian!..  

just this evening I saw the episode when Eddard laid out Arya's life..  Noble Husband.. raise noble children.. run the household of keep... and what was her response... "That's Not Me"..  ya... cuz she's a baby dyke!

 

I don't think that makes a difference. Girls don't get to choose who they marry in Westeros.

Gendry should come back later on, my guess is that he will be the one who melts down the iron throne to make white walker killing steel. It was changed by dragon fire which is probably why dragon stone gets its name and how valyrian steel is made.

But Gendry isn't nearly important enough to be Arya's eventual partner. The only person that seems significant enough is Jon and there is the icky brother/sister thing. Which is one of the reasons I started to suspect Jon isn't Stark at all, he just looks that way because he is disguised.

Lyanna on the other hand is the exception. She refused to marry Robert because he was a monster and Rheagar helped hide her by making her a knight.

[SilentDystopia]

Lyanna on the other hand is the exception. She refused to marry Robert because he was a monster and Rheagar helped hide her by making her a knight.

Lyanna is not an exemption her stupidness (if she eloped) had consequences that resulted in a war. Her family almost extinct, and her death. Women are groomed into becoming perfect so their Lord father can give them away and gain power. 

Define Monster and tell me how Young Robert is such?

What? How does a person make her a knight, but also impregnate her .-.

[Meera of Tarth]

 

But Gendry isn't nearly important enough to be Arya's eventual partner. The only person that seems significant enough is Jon and there is the icky brother/sister thing. Which is one of the reasons I started to suspect Jon isn't Stark at all, he just looks that way because he is disguised.

 

The importance of a character is, a lot of times, a reason why a character might not be chosen by another as a partner. However, in this story, I hope this will not be the reason why he is not chosen if that is the case. He might be unimportant for the story in general, but concerning Arya, things change because her view of the world and the people she has met is way more limited.

[Arya-Jon]

 

 He might be unimportant for the story in general, but concerning Arya, things change because her view of the world and the people she has met is way more limited.

 

I see why people love the concept of Gendry - Arya. That bickering sort of relationship where you realize you actually like each other. 

But I see what Martin is trying to do with Jon-Arya. I think(if he goes that way) , he is exploring the concept of forbidden love. When a human falls in love with a vampire (like in Vampire Diaries and twilight) , despite knowing that it is wrong. When a girl falls in love with a guy from an enemy clan (Romeo and Juliet), despite knowing it is wrong and foolish. In almost all these cases there heart is in conflict and that according to Martin is the only thing worth writing about.They are soulmates but born in the wrong family/race/tribe. Arya- Jon love if it happens may be similar. They both may be repulsed by what they are doing,yet...their hearts dont allow them to stop. They are soulmates who have been led to believe they are brother and sister.

The reason I like Arya- Jon is less to do with the incest and more to do with Arya becoming the ruler part , though . I know she will do some dark deeds. But I am so much in love with her character, that I am okay with it.  (Though it does help that most evidence supports my bias) . A bad person may be a good king and a good person may be a bad king. So the willingness to do dark (not necessarily evil) deeds (even Bloodraven did some) is something I count in her favor and as part of her character matuaration.  Something similar for Jon and Sansa too who are slowly becoming more dark.

At the same time they have that good in them, which I dont think they would lose. Arya loves the smallfolk and mingles with them very well. Jon loves his outcasts/ wildings and is reasonably pro gender equality. Sansa loves the singers/ has her courtesy  and compassion. They have different strengths and weaknesses. Sansa has a nose for court politics and may know the importance of singers. Arya understands different languages ,can detect lies and can play a role Bloodraven played . Jon will simply be a fearsome warrior after his ressurection. That is very important as it is the reputation of Robert Baratheon as a warrior, and the consequent fear that prevented the seven kingdoms from rebelling.

These three Stark kids just balance out each other and cover for each others weaknesses.

[Nerevanin]

Agree that she would have hard time to be a sophisticated lady because she has never wanted to be like that, and after the events she has lived it becomes more complicated (especially if the next two books cover approx.2 years (or less) and considering that the worst is to come.

However, I don't consider she has given up on love or faith. As I see it, she is devastated, but she has demonstrated she has wits and a strong sense of recovery before. However, I agree that it is very possible she is not interested in love ("romantic" love)

 

I feel it the way that at the beginning of her story, she is in fact a nice little girl with sympathy and conscience. Remember how bad she felt after Lady was executed because of her. But as the story progresses and she witnessed more and more horrible things and lost all her illusions, it seems as if she lost all her feelings and became some kind of sociopath. At this point it seems to me that the only thing she lives for is her little list and her goal is to kill all the people on it. The question is what she will do then. It's all just my opinion though.

[Arya-Jon]

 

Remember how bad she felt after Lady was executed because of her. But as the story progresses and she witnessed more and more horrible things and lost all her illusions, it seems as if she lost all her feelings and became some kind of sociopath. At this point it seems to me that the only thing she lives for is her little list and her goal is to kill all the people on it. The question is what she will do then. It's all just my opinion though. 

You are so wrong here. Even in Bravos, she is always looking to help out the nice people, who she thinks are weak and need protection. Sam , for instance. 

Name even one instance where she has lost her love for the smallfolk or her ability to make friends with people has reduced.  Isnt she nice to the people who are innocent and helpful to them?

Yes she kills. But name one person whom she killed without any justification. They are rapists/ murdererers. Is wanting venegaence and/or justice wrong?  Is being resourceful about that need wrong?

Yes, she killed  Daeron. But that's because she still follows the old way. She wants to give justice for desertion the Stark way. The one who says the sentence must swing the sword. She does not have the soldiers to bind him. So she takes matters into her own hands. So is that thirst for justice wrong or right? Is that resourcefulness to ensure that justice takes place wrong or right? 

The only times she regretted killing someone was when she killed the insurance man. Even there she was trying to convince herself that the insurance salesman was a bad man, and had done dark deeds. She is being selfish and is looking at her needs, (gaining recognition in the FM). How is that in any way related to a sociopath?  Do you even know what the word "Sociopath"  means? 

I find it interesting that the best thing you remember about "Arya" is when she showed compassion for Lady. I presume you are a Sansa fan.

I find it an unfortunate aspect of fandom, that especially fans of these two characters are out to get each others neck. So because Sansa and Arya had their quarrels, fans complete it in the internet by demonising the other character.