Does Arya survives at the end and furthers the stark family line through gendry?

[Arya-Jon]

Oh, I guess I mixed him with that swift guy. So he is young. 

OK, let me put it in this way. 

I have read many fantasy novels, there are many such cool killers who can kill people in quite various and fascinating ways, for business, for wealth, for reputation, or for revenge.

I am not saying these type of people technically can not have sex or children or marriage. Sure they can . 

But usually they are painted as somebody who is isolated from regular social life and lived a weird and lonely killer's life. 

Best killer is always lonely and cold and had a distance from the rest of the world. It is a little bit like you are on a higher mountain peak, then you feel more cold and lonely. 

Ygirtte and visenya are regular fighters and warriors, they had husband, partners, children, friends, etc. quite different from Arya's role.  

Even her death was somehow foreshadowed by Jon: died with the needle in her frozen fingers. something like that. 

If this is true, then this is indeed a normal way of death for such killer role. 

 

By the way, I agree that GRRM likely will make her as Jon's queen, maybe after death of Jon's first queen dany, or Arya died before Dany as Jon's first wife. (Unless he wanted to make Jon Snow a polygamy man. then Arya will be the love wife who died like Rhaenys and Dany ended up like a duty wife who bore some children)

But at this point, her image is more like a cold killer. and this type of killer usually is not related to the normal marriage life and children stuff. This is just to make the story cool. do you think readers will want to see a cold killer who can seduce a man, play with his private parts to kill him using a razor but also has one child dragging her skirt and crying for her breast milk and a husband who held another baby? This does not fit that image. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thats still tropes. Arya is among the most social of women. If you would read her chapters she is very interactive and even intelligent. I can give you so many quotes to prove this point. Yes, even in Bravos. So she is not a cold lonely killer as you mentioned in this quote "But usually they are painted as somebody who is isolated from regular social life and lived a weird and lonely killer's life. "

And she did not ever play with his private parts. She was targeting a specific vein of his body which would make him bleed to death. As soon as it was in range, she did it.

Cersei has ordered the slaughter of children. Yet she has no problem being near them. Arya has just bloody used her wits to kill a murderer. Is that cold blooded killing? Yes. But in some ways its also justice. Like for Jon with Janos Slynt. Only Arya did not have Iron Emnett to help her so she used her own wits.

I dont think we have really seen a character like Arya. And it would be wrong to put her into such inaccurate tropes/categories. And i have seen nothing to indicate that Arya has lost her capability to protect people. She protected Sam for one. I do relate the ability to protect people to indicate that her maternal feeling is still alive and well. And probably so is her capacity for love.

I just think you are looking at the wrong source for comparison. A comparison with a wolf would be more apt rather than a "lonely killer". When wolves kill they dont lose their maternal feelings. Its the same for Arya. 

[Lord Lannister]

Only in the fanfics.

[purple-eyes]

Thats still tropes. Arya is among the most social of women. If you would read her chapters she is very interactive and even intelligent. I can give you so many quotes to prove this point. Yes, even in Bravos. So she is not a cold lonely killer as you mentioned in this quote "But usually they are painted as somebody who is isolated from regular social life and lived a weird and lonely killer's life. "

I dont think we have really seen a character like Arya. And it would be wrong to put her into such inaccurate tropes/categories. And i have seen nothing to indicate that Arya has lost her capability to protect people. She protected Sam for one. I do relate the ability to protect people to indicate that her maternal feeling is still alive and well. And probably so is her capacity for love.

I just think you are looking at the wrong source for comparison. A comparison with a wolf would be more apt rather than a "lonely killer". When wolves kill they dont lose their maternal feelings. Its the same for Arya. 

GRRM wrote this figure to tell us about those child killers in the real world. 

just like those little birds of Varys, they probably had a lot of tragedies in their lives and they are trained and twisted into killer. Technically they can marry and have children, etc. But that is not the point of the story. It does not fit their images. 

I do feel GRRM will not let Arya go further on this dark path since she is his favorite character. 

She will quit from FM and go back to do whatever she wants to do, marry Jon as queen for 7K, birth a new son of ice and fire, etc.

However, if she is on this path to the very bitter end, then I think she will not have regular social life. 

 

 

 

[Arya-Jon]

just like those little birds of Varys, they probably had a lot of tragedies in their lives and they are trained and twisted into killer. Technically they can marry and have children, etc. But that is not the point of the story. It does not fit their images. 

I do feel GRRM will not let Arya go further on this dark path since she is his favorite character. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

If you read about Mary, she killed two boys as a child and actually was mean to them and yes played with their private parts. She has gone on to have children and grandchildren. There are many more examples . Barring social rejection ,and infamy due to the killing, it would be very abnormal if people dont marry or make love.

 Arya is not even half as mean. Her killing is actualy about justice and no she had never played with Raff's private parts as I mentioned in my above post after editing it. Killing rarely has any effect on having children unless the society rejects the killers. Especially when the killers (like Jon for Janos) and Arya  (for raff) feel justified abt it.

Based on the way the Mercy chapter ended, I do think that Arya will no longer remain with the FM. But that certainly does not mean that she will not kill or kick ass. I think she will infiltrate King' s Landing and win the throne for her cousin.

[Lord Wraith]

Only in the fanfics.

Just this and we know how GRR feels about fanfics.

[purple-eyes]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Bell

If you read about Mary, she killed two boys as a child and actually was mean to them and yes played with their private parts. She has gone on to have children and grandchildren. There are many more examples . Barring social rejection ,and infamy due to the killing, it would be very abnormal if people dont marry or make love.

 Arya is not even half as mean. Her killing is actualy about justice and no she had never played with Raff's private parts as I mentioned in my above post after editing it. Killing rarely has any effect on having children unless the society rejects the killers. Especially when the killers (like Jon for Janos) and Arya  (for raff) feel justified abt it.

Based on the way the Mercy chapter ended, I do think that Arya will no longer remain with the FM. But that certainly does not mean that she will not kill or kick ass. I think she will infiltrate King' s Landing and win the throne for her cousin.

I can see you like Arya a lot. 

She will likely be kicked out of FM due to her breaking the discipline and she will go back to find her wolf and become some sort of wild leader of wild wolves. (this is one reason she may not have husband, because no other man can live with her with her hundreds of wolves in the wilderness)

She is similar to the nettles, go to some wild place with her magic pet and live as some sort of witch or mysterious leader. Not a wife material. Have we heard Nettles married a nice young man and lived in mountain happily? no, she used her dragon to burn parts of men to test their courage. Something Arya would like to do for sure. 

But if you say she will win the throne for her cousin, sorry, this is not her job. 

This belongs to mother of dragons dany and probably the hailed mummer's dragon Aegon, and also probably Jaime the valunquatar and Breinnie the more beautiful queen. Even Sansa will play more for this purpose. 

 

 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

I don't see Arya marrying or having babies...that's just not her. Anyway...this is only my opinion. 

Fair enough. However, I think if we'd met Lyanna at 9, 10, or 11, we'd doubt very much that men would ever fight a war for her.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Just this and we know how GRR feels about fanfics.

But the TV series is fanfiction.

As John Green said, "Books belong to their readers." Even if people weren't writing fanfics, headcanons are things, too. People can't force everyone to read or interpret a book the same way. If they could, there'd be nothing to discuss on these boards.

[Arya-Jon]

I can see you like Arya a lot. 

She will likely be kicked out of FM due to her breaking the discipline and she will go back to find her wolf and become some sort of wild leader of wild wolves. 

But if you say she will win the throne for her cousin, sorry, this is not her job. 

This belongs to mother of dragons dany and probably the hailed mummer's dragon Aegon, and also probably Jaime the valunquatar and Breinnie the more beautiful queen. Even Sansa will play more for this purpose. 

 

 

Well. Grrm had mentioned this line

"If a twelve year old has to conquer the world then so be it" when talking about abandoning the 5 year gap in 2005.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/US_Signing_Tour_Half_Moon_Bay_CA/

Arya is basically the only person who would be 12 years old come the Dream of Spring. And plus she has knowledge of the secret passageways at Kings landing.

My opinion is not based on my love for Arya but on the evidence I got.

That said Sansa and Dany will certainly play a role. But so will Arya.

[purple-eyes]

Fair enough. However, I think if we'd met Lyanna at 9, 10, or 11, we'd doubt very much that men would ever fight a war for her.

since when men fight a war for her?

I thought Jon, Robert and Ned fought for their heads and the unjust tragedies of their family and people. 

Robert and Ned did not even try to find Lyanna during the whole rebellion. 

 

[purple-eyes]

Well. Grrm had mentioned this line

"If a twelve year old has to conquer the world then so be it" when talking about abandoning the 5 year gap in 2005.

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/US_Signing_Tour_Half_Moon_Bay_CA/

Arya is basically the only person who would be 12 years old come the Dream of Spring. And plus she has knowledge of the secret passageways at Kings landing.

My opinion is not based on my love for Arya but on the evidence I got.

That said Sansa and Dany will certainly play a role. But so will Arya.

I highly doubt that means Arya Stark. 

I would believe that is Bran who is only 1 year younger than Arya and currently he is 10 years old. 

He has a higher chance to be 12 years old at the end of the last book. 

And he will become the representative of old god in this world and merge with heart tree and he is the greenseer with magic. 

Honestly, he will be much more likely than Arya to become the one who save the world. 

In fact, the story about greenseer's breaking the Dorne arm is likely a hint or foreshadow for what Bran and BR will do. 

 

Knwledge about Secret passages to save the world? you are kidding me, then varys is the savior no doubt. 

She happened to know some of them but she did not have a systematic knowledge on these things, she is even not as good as Tyrion. 

 

By the way, 13 year old is a magic age for girls in this universe. They often flowered and fit to marry in this age. 

I think arya will at least get into this age before the book ends to have her moon-blood and be able to have sex. 

So not 12 year old to conquer the world. 

 

 

 

[Arya-Jon]

I highly doubt that means Arya Stark. 

I would believe that is Bran who is only 1 year younger than Arya and currently he is 10 years old. 

He has a higher chance to be 12 years old at the end of the last book. 

And he will become the representative of old god in this world and merge with heart tree and he is the greenseer with magic. 

Honestly, he will be much more likely than Arya to become the one who save the world. 

In fact, the story about greenseer's breaking the Dorne arm is likely a hint or foreshadow for what Bran and BR will do. 

Secret passages to save the world? you are kidding me, then varys is the savior no doubt. 

 

 

First things first, Bran is 9 years old (mentioned in Appendix of ADWD) and is 2 years younger than Arya who is mentioned as 11 . Their age difference is mentioned as 2 years in the appendix of AGOT, ACOK and ADWD/AFFC. Its only in ASOS that their age difference is 1 year. So most probably Bran is born in the later months of 290. With Arya being born in the earlier months of 289. That would explain why their age difference is 2 most of the time.

I think you answered your own comment.

 he will be much more likely than Arya to become the one who save the world.

Exactly. Bran's arc is about saving the world . Its not at all involved with conquering the world which requires a more selfish person. Savior and Conqueror are two different terms.  Grrm used the word conquer. Bran's main role is to save the realm from the oncoming winter. Aegon is a conqueror. So is Visenya. But they are not saviors. Maybe you feel that there will be no second Dance with Dragons. So saving the realm is equal to conquering it. But Grrm has said that there will be a second dance.

Varys is not a 12 year old.

If you are so rude and will use terms such as "Are you kidding me", the argument may take a nasty turn. I am not kidding anyone. I am just giving my opinion.

And there is no magic age mentioned explicitly. Girls flower in any age between 9-14. Plus going by current pace in Dance with Dragons and Storm of Swords where one book has lead to a change of half a year,she would just turn 12. Even if it is faster she may be near 13 but still 12.

My main point of disagreement with you is that a savior is very different from a conqueror. Conquerors are more often then not, killers.

[Lord Wraith]

But the TV series is fanfiction.

As John Green said, "Books belong to their readers." Even if people weren't writing fanfics, headcanons are things, too. People can't force everyone to read or interpret a book the same way. If they could, there'd be nothing to discuss on these boards.

Let's not even talk about the show, well at least not on this forum 

I don't need or want people to have my view. People can think whatever they like, but by that token I am allowed to have my opinion on this topic which I felt Lord Lannister responded quite succinctly.

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Let's not even talk about the show, well at least not on this forum 

I don't need or want people to have my view. People can think whatever they like, but by that token I am allowed to have my opinion on this topic which I felt Lord Lannister responded quite succinctly.

Fair enough. 

[purple-eyes]

 

I think you answered your own comment.

Exactly. Bran's arc is about saving the world . Its not at all involved with conquering the world which requires a more selfish person. Savior and Conqueror are two different terms.  Grrm used the word conquer. Bran's main role is to save the realm from the oncoming winter. Aegon is a conqueror. So is Visenya. But they are not saviors. Maybe you feel that there will be no second Dance with Dragons. So saving the realm is equal to conquering it. But Grrm has said that there will be a second dance.

Varys is not a 12 year old.

If you are so rude and will use terms such as "Are you kidding me", the argument may take a nasty turn. I am not kidding anyone. I am just giving my opinion.

And there is no magic age mentioned explicitly. Girls flower in any age between 9-14. Plus going by current pace in Dance with Dragons and Storm of Swords where one book has lead to a change of half a year,she would just turn 12. Even if it is faster she may be near 13 but still 12.

My main point of disagreement with you is that a savior is very different from a conqueror. Conquerors are more often then not, killers.

when we talking about the bitter winter and long night, yes, pretty much conquer and save the world is the same. 

Others will ruin the world, you conquer them, you save the world. 

There are only two books, the ultimate war will be for the others and long night. 

I am sure there is a sort of conquer before it, such as Second dance and likely the invasion of dothraki by Dany, but that is between dany and Aegon, nothing related to Arya stark. 

the point is, each person has own abilities and suitable job. 

Jon led army, Dany led army and dragons, Aegon led his armies. Bran had his super natural abilities. 

Arya has her assassinating skills (although basic ones, she will be dismissed from her school soon), as well as the wolves by Nymeria. 

She would use these wolves to help the last war, sure, but she is not going to conquer the world by her needle or her level one assassinating skill or her wild wolves. in fact, her secret killing skill in fact is different from real fighting skill. Brienne of tarth is a real fighter, not Arya. 

 

[Liz Stark-Targaryen]

Observation: so many Arya threads this year have turned into Jon/Arya vs. Arya/Gendry threads, no matter what the initial premise. Similarly, so many Sansa threads are turning into Jon/Sansa vs. Sansa/Sandor.

Since when are these boards about ship wars?

Literally the least interesting thing about these Stark girls is their romantic lives. Arya's becoming a trained assassin. Sansa is learning how to play the game of thrones. More threads about that, please, that aren't "Arya's turning into a psycho" or "Sansa is boring."

[Arya-Jon]

 

 

when we talking about the bitter winter and long night, yes, pretty much conquer and save the world is the same. 

Others will ruin the world, you conquer them, you save the world. 

There are only two books, the ultimate war will be for the others and long night. 

I am sure there is a sort of conquer before it, such as Second dance and likely the invasion of dothraki by Dany, but that is between dany and Aegon, nothing related to Arya stark. 

the point is, each person has own abilities and suitable job. 

Jon led army, Dany led army and dragons, Aegon led his armies. Bran had his super natural abilities. 

Arya has her assassinating skills (although basic ones, she will be dismissed from her school soon), as well as the wolves by Nymeria. 

She would use these wolves to help the last war, sure, but she is not going to conquer the world by her needle or her level one assassinating skill or her wild wolves. in fact, her secret killing skill in fact is different from real fighting skill. Brienne of tarth is a real fighter, not Arya. 

 

Of course Arya is not a real fighter. But she is damn smart and is a quick thinker. Her motto is "Fear cuts deeper than swords". And she knows about the passageways to enter King's landing. Thats how she escaped Kings landing. And if you think Grrm just made her go to the FM just for fun, you are wrong. He took her there to teach her some skills, such as detecting lies, glamors and devicing ways to kill people.

Even  you know your logic is flawed. Grrm could simply have used the word savior instead of conqeror to describe Bran defeating the others. And the thing is we dont need Bran for that kind of magic. We already have the Green Men of Quiet Isles for that.  In Winds of Winter , a major portion of the whitewalker invasion should be covered. And defeating the others is not equal to conquering the world because there are always other claimants. 

If it all ends after defeating the others , do you really think Jon will put forward his claim as king and just become king. I dont think the author will go that way. Defeat the others become king is a Mary Sue to me.There has to be some dissent. He does not look like a Targaryen. People think he is a bastard and bastards are inherently vile according to them.

What I think will happen is :Defeat the others . Make a claim. People oppose the claim and call you a turncloak and oathbreaker. Some leaders rebel. Face a ravaging war with lots of loss of near and dear ones. But ultimately triumph. I dont think Bran will kill everyone for Jon and be the main reason for the victory in this war. That would be oversusing magic, something Grrm is careful not to do. Anyways, I dont see how Bran can be called a conqueror unless he rules.  And I can understand him coming out of the tree and ruling Winterfell, but Westeros? You have to defeat the opposition kingdom and rule/co-rule to be truly called a conqueror according to my limited understanding of the word.

Bran doing some hocus pocus trick and giving Jon the thrones is so unlikely. I would recommend you read this interview. Where GRRM says why he is very sparing with his use of magic

http://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/books/2013-08-29/lonestarcon-3-the-george-r-r-martin-interview/

[Lord Wraith]

Fair enough. 

Anyway I just don't see it happening in the context of the novels. As it currently stands Arya is without her face being trained as an assassin in Braavos. Meanwhile Gendry is at his forge making weapons for the BWB and is a follower of the Red God to boot. I haven't read this thread fully but it seems unlikely and too may if's to actually occur in the story.

[ultravioletgaia]

Arya will die and become in one with Nymeria. it is known

If Ghost manage to escape the castle Black and he becomes in one with Jon then he and Nymeria could meet and make pups.

That sounds more like a Grrm's version of happy endings.

[Joan Jett]

Arya will die and become in one with Nymeria. it is known

If Ghost manage to escape the castle Black and he becomes in one with Jon then he and Nymeria could meet and make pups.

That sounds more like a Grrm's version of happy endings.

Arya is more likely to marry Gendry and settle down in Storm's End before this happens. There is honestly no reason to believe this dumb theory.