European politics: Into the "right" futur

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Rest assured if the police hadn't hushed it up, the media would have.

It only comes to light now because Cologne did.

[Tijgy]

I am in shock now. 

Today Montasser Alde'emeh who is in Belgium an expert in jihadism and always get invited for debates on terrorism and who aid young muslims to stop them from radicalization, was today arrested for the fact he might have written an attest for someone wanting to fight in Syria and who is suspected of terrorism that he was following a course with to return the radicalization process, while this was a complete lie. (x) 

I hope this is not the truth because this would everything he did in doubt. 

[Crixus]

Perhaps wait till all the facts come to light? Right now it seems he 'might' have done something illegal. 

Also, here's an article from last month, by Robert Fisk (disclaimer: I read his work and respect him) on how this same person, Montasser, was treated by the police (spoiler: not well) after being stopped on the road: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-needless-interrogation-of-a-belgian-academic-is-exactly-what-isis-wants-from-us-a6762381.html 

 

 

[Lyanna Stark]

 

 

Rest assured if the police hadn't hushed it up, the media would have.

 

It only comes to light now because Cologne did.

Actually no. The media specifically clarified that after getting an anonymous tip they went to the police to get it confirmed and the police denied it. It was only later when they got more tips they looked into it once more. Link here if you can use google translate.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3393516/Syrian-ISIS-supporter-shot-dead-outside-Paris-police-station-arrested-sexually-assaulting-women-Cologne-taken-New-Year-s-Eve-attacks.html

'We don't know who the man really is,' said Uwe Jacob, director of the local state criminal office probing his background and movements in Europe.

To clarify this guy was arrested for sexual assault in Cologne...

In 2014.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-11/european-migrant-crisis-triggers-gender-imbalance/7076924

58 per cent of Europe's arrivals in 2015 were adult men, UNHCR data says

Sweden has 123 boys for every 100 girls, more significant difference than China under one-child policy

Research shows where men outnumber women rates of violent crime, property crime and crime against wom

123:100 seems unbelievably high to me so grain of salt. However, the migrants are disproportionately male.

[Lyanna Stark]

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-11/european-migrant-crisis-triggers-gender-imbalance/7076924

 

58 per cent of Europe's arrivals in 2015 were adult men, UNHCR data says

Sweden has 123 boys for every 100 girls, more significant difference than China under one-child policy

Research shows where men outnumber women rates of violent crime, property crime and crime against wom

Time for all men to become feminist! Thanks Prunes, I didn't think you cared, but it turns out I was wrong all along.  Seems just about everyone is climbing on to the feminist bandwagon these days. Maybe soon they will be teaching de Beauvoir in schools. Or maybe bell hooks' "feminism is for everybody".

Because despite what a lot of people claim, feminism and feminist achievements are important underpinnings of our societies. Time to recognise that fact!

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Feminists were silent on Cologne for days and days. When they finally spoke up they attempted to deflect any criticism from refugees and Islam.

They've attacked the conservatives who did shine a light on this unmitigated disaster as though these men actually favored rape.

Though, to be fair, it was #notallfeminists.

[Lyanna Stark]

Feminists were silent on Cologne for days and days. When they finally spoke up they attempted to deflect any criticism from refugees and Islam.

 

They've attacked the conservatives who did shine a light on this unmitigated disaster as though these men actually favored rape.

Though, to be fair, it was #notallfeminists.

 

I guess you are following the wrong ones. I've seen loads of commentary, but a lot of it also annoyance at how a lot of people who normally spend their breath on attacking feminists and feminism are suddenly so all for equality and women's rights. Isn't that odd? 

I, for one, welcome this newfangled feminism and long may it last. As I said, if people are finally inclined to read bell hooks, Simone de Beauvior, Judith Butler, Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie and Julia Serano, few people would be happier than I. Which one is your favourite feminist theorist?

I'm curious though, which conservatives shone a light on "this unimitigated disaster" or what? Who favoured rape? The feminists? The conservatives? All refugees in Europe? It's unclear to me which group are which.

[Biglose]

 

 

 

 

Feminists were silent on Cologne for days and days. When they finally spoke up they attempted to deflect any criticism from refugees and Islam.

 

They've attacked the conservatives who did shine a light on this unmitigated disaster as though these men actually favored rape.

Though, to be fair, it was #notallfeminists.

 

Wrong. Alice Schwarzer spoke out against it the second it became known. And she is warning of this shit for years!

What you say is just wrong. The point is that there are close to no serious feminists outside Alice Schwarzer in Germany. Thats why she is the figurhead of german feminism, with more than 60 years. She can't step down because there is literally nobody to replace her!

 

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Most of what I've been seeing are the Lauri Pennys of the world.

Not flattering representatives.

I'll give Schwarzer a go. Promise.

[Tijgy]

Perhaps wait till all the facts come to light? Right now it seems he 'might' have done something illegal. 

Also, here's an article from last month, by Robert Fisk (disclaimer: I read his work and respect him) on how this same person, Montasser, was treated by the police (spoiler: not well) after being stopped on the road: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-needless-interrogation-of-a-belgian-academic-is-exactly-what-isis-wants-from-us-a6762381.html 

Wow, I did not know Montasser is that kind of famous  in foreign countries. While I do not agree sometimes with what he says, I do admire his work and admire the place he takes in the whole debate on radicalization, terrorism, the place of the Islam in Europe, ... And this would be the main reason why I would be upset if he is really involved in that terrorism case (you are indeed right that everyone is innocent until proven guilty but then I might still feel scared about the possible consequences of this incident). First, I think it will broaden the bridge between the young population who is in danger of radicalization, and the authorities. Second, it will discredit his opinion while this was actually one of the few voices with a migrant background IMO that stimulates some trust from the autochthonous population in Flanders; which is also actually very important. 

I must however say the facts of the incident with the police were not completely clear. According to Montasser, he was firstly controlled solely on the basis of his skin color. But according to the police, they had seen somebody filming and photographing police bureaus from his car and his car was signalled as being suspicious. So it would then be a lie to say this was a "needless" interrogation. And you must not forget a week before that, there was still in Brussels the highest level of terror. So the police was probably still hyper vigilant. So IMO the writer of your article is being a little too laughable about the explanations of the police.

The main problem I might have with the police was actually more with what they might have said towards him and how they acted towards him, not the fact he was controlled. But then they were sort of suspecting him from to planning an attack to them (the police) so they were probably really upset about that. So I can understand why they might have acted how they acted but it would still be wrong and indeed not smart of the police to make the whole situation even more hostile. This incident (and I must also other incidents of possible ethnic profiling) led to the interesting debate of the moment: can ethnic profiling be allowed or is it completely wrong?   

But then I do wonder how some people from a migrant background are reacting on this whole situation (terror, ....) Dyab Abou Jahjah (one of the few other "important voices" from the migrants in Flanders; I do not think he really get much trust from the autochthonous population - which might have more to do with him than the Flemish people) thought it was his civil duty to tweet the police was doing some house searches in his neighbourhood during the Brussels cat-lockdown. Some young people thought it was fun to warn the police of some false bom alarms, which in some cases disrupted for some hours the public transport in a certain region. I honestly believe the whole we-they story is not only the fault of xenophobia of a part of the autochthonous population but sadly also from the fault how some parts of those communities act for example in those situations. What I miss in those debates, is the recognition of certain communities their (subculture) might also partly to be responsible for terrorism attacks, sexual offenses, ... I do not think it is enough to distance themselves from their actions but I really miss a sort of self-reflection from them: why is it possible that those actions are committed by people of our community? I believe the problem is greater than a reaction of racism, xenophobia, ...

So I am sort of tired hearing "this is not the islam" while those attacks were committed by a (wrongly) interpretation by young people of the islam. While other reasons of radicalization (economic background, ...) also should be investigated, I actually want the muslim population say for once there is also problem with the interpretation of their religion, a problem within their community and there should be a self-reflection by them (or by their leading members of that community). During this week our good friend Dyab Abou Jahjah wrote in a column those attacks in Cologne were the result of the fact the perpetrators were integrated too good in our aggressive Western culture and had nothing to do with their North-African/Arabic/Muslim background. If something is done by people of the Catholic Church, we also want to hear from the Church why the things they did were wrong and that there should be a self-reflection by them. If a group of hooligans are being very aggressive, we also want a reaction from the footballer/soccer association. If some children of the youth movement from which I used a member, a monitor and now a member of the board, I also think there should be a reaction and self-reflection from the youth movement itself. But sometimes it really seems wrong as a member of the "white" population to ask this from some communities and it feels to the autochthonous population the blame and the responsibility is almost always placed entirely on their shoulders by some communities or some people with a leftish background. Or so does it feel at least towards me. 

And that is why I feel shocked and scarred about Montasser arrest. I was really hoping his opinion would be able to bring the migrant and the autochthonous population closer together and I am hoping he is innocent.

 

[Lyanna Stark]

Most of what I've been seeing are the Lauri Pennys of the world.

 

Not flattering representatives.

I'll give Schwarzer a go. Promise.

 

I have no idea who Laurie Penny is (in fact, I had to google her and she writes opinion pieces for the Guardian?). Might I suggest you try some acknowledged academic feminists instead? I often find that reading something in an actual published book instead of Twitter feeds give a far better and well rounded understanding of the issues at hand. I would also recommend a non-anglo saxon feminist like Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, for instance.

Why do you specifically disagree with Laurie Penny? Instead of just slamming her, it would be interesting to know why she in particular is so terrible.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

I have my own reading list to complete and report back on. So tell you what; read this article and tell me what, if anything, you find agreeable about her premise.

If my problems with her aren't self evident, you'll save me some time on my reading list.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/01/after-cologne-we-cant-let-bigots-steal-feminism

[ElizabethB.]

The German officials:  the phenomenon of mass abuse of women is known as the 'taharrush gamea(?).

"Das Phänomen ist in arabischen Ländern schon lange ein Problem und als "taharrush gamea" bekannt." 

http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article150813517/Das-Phaenomen-taharrush-gamea-ist-in-Deutschland-angekommen.html

I'm sure there will be English news available soon. 

[Kalbear]

I have my own reading list to complete and report back on. So tell you what; read this article and tell me what, if anything, you find agreeable about her premise.

 

 

 

If my problems with her aren't self evident, you'll save me some time on my reading list.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/01/after-cologne-we-cant-let-bigots-steal-feminism

 

 

Her premise is that people like you tend to overwhelmingly blame women when they are sexually assaulted - but in this case, blaming foreigners trumps blaming women. 

Doesn't seem like that radical of a notion. 

Didn't read a single word in there that was saying anything positive about the attacks or that it is a cultural thing for Syrians. Or, really, anything that you said. Can you actually quote a line from the article indicating where she defends any of the attackers?

I mean, look how she tries to deflect things away from the people who committed these assaults:

So let me be clear: sexual violence is never, ever acceptable. Not for cultural reasons. Not for religious reasons. Not because the perpetrators are really angry and disenfranchised. There can be no quarter for systemic misogyny. 

Clearly she's just trying to deflect blame here.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Her premise is that people like you tend to overwhelmingly blame women when they are sexually assaulted - but in this case, blaming foreigners trumps blaming women. 

Well, in this case it was the fault of foreigners.

[Kalbear]

Well, in this case it was the fault of foreigners.

Yep. And when women are raped it is the fault of the rapists. Her point is that usually breitbart and 4 Chan are jumping over themselves to condemn the women. Apparently the biggest crime was not women getting assaulted - it's that the women weren't being assaulted by Western men.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

"So let me be clear: sexual violence is never, ever acceptable."

And it only took you ten days. Well done. Gold star for you. Unfortunately, your screed is rather undermined by the knowledge that, had this been a plot line on Game of Thrones, it would only have taken you about ten minutes.

"Those of us who have moved beyond that level can, if we really try hard, understand that it’s not either ‘sexism is exclusively practised by Muslim men’ and ‘sexism is exactly the same everywhere.’ This is what we call a ‘false dichotomy’ when we get to big-kid school."

Absolutely nobody is suggesting either of those things. As enlightening as we pre-schoolers doubtless found your haughty lecture on false-dichotomies, we should note that it was somewhat eclipsed by the giant flaming strawman standing immediately behind it.

Here is the actual argument: When large numbers of young men from cultures with antediluvian sexual attitudes move from one place to another, they tend to bring those attitudes with them. At the very least, they don't abandon them overnight. This is not to say that sexism is practised "exclusively" by Muslim men. It is to say instead that sexism, in the aggregate, is more prevalent, more ingrained, and more violently expressed by sexists from those cultures. If hundreds of thousands of people - a certain percentage of whom are, for cultural reasons, guaranteed to be deeply misogynist - move from their homelands to a single host country, an increase in both the frequency and the violence of sexual assault becomes inevitable.

Of course, the scale of this atrocity (which, make no mistake, is nothing less than co-ordinated sexual terrorism) came as a shock even to those opposed to mass migration. Even the most fervent Neo-Nazis probably didn't see this coming.

"I’ll be blunt. I think some people out there are very excited by their conception of ‘Islamic’ violence against women."

I'll be blunt, too. I think that if this string of atrocities had been committed by white American college kids, you and other prominent pop-feminist writers would have been over it like flies on shit in less time than it takes to make a sandwich. Instead, it was committed by men who were described by the victims as being exclusively of "North African and Arab appearance", and it took you this long to hammer out a stance guaranteed to insulate you from the sort of spurious charges of racism that you're all too happy to throw at other people. This doesn't say much for your priorities, especially since you were forced to support your position with a slew of false equivalencies and an army of straw men.

"It’s easier to pin misogyny on cultural outsiders than it is to accept that men everywhere must do better - but any other attitude is rank hypocrisy."

And, by extension, soft-soaping unprecedented acts of sexual violence because the perpetrators were recent migrants is nothing more than the soft bigotry of low expectations."

I'm plagiarizing this response to Penny's article because it's spot on and really encapsulates the modern 3rd wave feminists that I almost never see policed by other supposedly rational feminists.

Frankly, these women led the charge for welcoming this invasion and wish for it to continue. They're more interested in chasing Nobel laureates out of research departments than doing what is necessary to stop this.

Good luck lecturing them not to rape. I'm sure that'll do the trick considering the mastery of European linguistics they've brought with them.

[ElizabethB.]

 

"Frankly, these women led the charge for welcoming this invasion and wish for it to continue. They're more interested in chasing Nobel laureates out of research departments than doing what is necessary to stop this.

 

Good luck lecturing them not to rape. I'm sure that'll do the trick considering the mastery of European linguistics they've brought with them.

 

 

Are there mass assaults reported in the UK, do you know?