European politics: Into the "right" futur

[Dofs]

I wouldn't have minded if 1 million of Chinese came last year to Europe. I wouldn't have minded if Indians came, if Ezidi came, if Arab Christians came, if Zoroastrians came. I wouldn't have minded if African non-Muslims came. I do mind that a million of Arab Muslims come. And there is a reason why. And this reason is not racism.

[Marcus Agrippa]

I don't know, I look at this and realize that this an inherent problem with the SJW branch of the left. I don't like them, Race is literally based off of a bunch of protiens found in one skins, and every human male, female, uneducated or educated should be held up to the law no matter what their skin looks like. SJW's hold this species back, as well as those who take a public stance on abortion, or who believe justice can only be brought by their own "groups". These newspaper should be tried for corruption fined 100,000 Euro/dollar for every case of hiding information, and if possible, found out why they withheld information and publicly disclose.  Now as far as the multiculturalism is concerned- I have brought this up before, but the way we define culture is intrusive to the concept of peace, because all culture is human. Humanity needs to get over itself if it ever intends to leave this planet, just because you're from a different part of this rock doesn't mean you get to live by special rules. Humanity needs to deal with this with secularism and justice. However, I wonder if prison will ever be enough to stop rape. The Immigrant issue itself is complex, this all started earlier then expected with Iraq, however this was going to happen regardless because of global warming. I don't know how I would handle the issue. Anything I would do would give me a personal crisis, most rapists (male and female) are recurring, I imagine I would have them castrated them because its the easiest way to deal with over population, rape, and unwanted children. But is easy always right ? I would be making a permanent life style change to someone (male or female) who may have or haven't done it or maynot understand what they're doing is wrong. Justice is a hard thing, I don't ever envy anyone with that level of responsibility nor would I ever want it.

Sidenote- I have an interest in seeing corporate/state news to go bankrupt. News should be inherently neutral. I am tired of "what do you expect from NYT/Fox/Huffington/Guardian/ect.

Next sidenote- I am not left or right- I am pro-hard science. However, since the right has libertarians who despite their claims, call their views scientific when they are most certainly not, I often side with the left. I am very well aware of the difference of certain gene's from people in different places, however humans are .99999999999 percent the same. It's not different enough for them to be considered a different "group".

[James Arryn]

I wouldn't have minded if 1 million of Chinese came last year to Europe. I wouldn't have minded if Indians came, if Ezidi came, if Arab Christians came, if Zoroastrians came. I wouldn't have minded if African non-Muslims came. I do mind that a million of Arab Muslims come. And there is a reason why. And this reason is not racism.

It is, though.

[ElizabethB.]

http://www.dw.com/en/cologne-new-year-assault-reports-more-than-double-in-number/a-18969345

"Besides laws, the party's "Mainzer Erklärung" (Mainz Declaration) calls for increased security at hotspots of criminality like the Cologne train station, where many of the assaults took place. The proposed measures include more video cameras and random checks on individuals by security personnel."

More video cameras, how does that sound? 

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

There's that perverse glee again. Prunes is just so happy about using rape to advance his anti-Islam pro-fascism agenda.

Robert Fico is an idiot, as is anyone babbling about how multiculturalism is a failure. Utter nonsense from the nonsense machine.

Oh and one more for the road. Enjoy!

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

Does the duplicity of the globalist left know any bounds, any truth, anything of virtue to anyone at all?

Wise Fool: Angela Merkel is an idiot.

Hillary Clinton: I want to be like Angela Merkel.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/news/hillary-clinton-angela-merkel

Any Americans reading this thread, I implore you: help us make America great again.

[Dofs]

It is, though.

Islam is not a race, nor an ethnicity, so not, it's not racism. I, personally, consider Lebanese, Syrian and Iraqi women one of the most beautiful women on the planet, for example, so it would be weird for me to be racist towards them. But unless they are not Muslim, I do not want Iraqi, Syrians and Lebanese to be here. Simply because of their religion. And yes, I understand that there a lot of good people among them, and a lot of them are Shias who do not have jihadist tendencies. I myself have Muslim friends who are really nice people. But among nice Muslims, who are not overly religious, there are a lot of those that treat their religion and its inherent sexism and jihadism seriously. Or simply those, who are not religious but aren't educated and have grown up in this atmosphere of not respecting non-Muslims. And I do not want these people here. Unfortunately, there is no way of separating good Muslims from bad Muslim, nor we have any way to know whether their children wouldn't be prone to Islamism (and there are lots of examples of Muslims born in Europe to be much more radicalized than their parents who immigrated there) so I am against a massive allowance of all Muslims. And it's not like they don't have where to go. They have lots of stable Muslim countries to go to. Turkey and Lebanon a freely allowing them in. Not allowing them into Europe does not mean leaving them to die or anything like that.

[James Arryn]

Islam is not a race, nor an ethnicity, so not, it's not racism. I, personally, consider Lebanese, Syrian and Iraqi women one of the most beautiful women on the planet, for example, so it would be weird for me to be racist towards them. But unless they are not Muslim, I do not want Iraqi, Syrians and Lebanese to be here. Simply because of their religion. And yes, I understand that there a lot of good people among them, and a lot of them are Shias who do not have jihadist tendencies. I myself have Muslim friends who are really nice people. But among nice Muslims, who are not overly religious, there are a lot of those that treat their religion and its inherent sexism and jihadism seriously. Or simply those, who are not religious but aren't educated and have grown up in this atmosphere of not respecting non-Muslims. And I do not want these people here. Unfortunately, there is no way of separating good Muslims from bad Muslim, nor we have any way to know whether their children wouldn't be prone to Islamism (and there are lots of examples of Muslims born in Europe to be much more radicalized than their parents who immigrated there) so I am against a massive allowance of all Muslims. And it's not like they don't have where to go. They have lots of stable Muslim countries to go to. Turkey and Lebanon a freely allowing them in. Not allowing them into Europe does not mean leaving them to die or anything like that.

You specified an ethnic aspect as well. Had you confined your bigotry to religion, it would not be racism, merely religious/cultural prejudice, though I'm not sure what comfort you derive from that.

There is no way of separating 'good' people from bad w/e their designation, which is why we prefer to judge people after the fact specific to their actions rather than before the fact due to their race, religion, gender, preference, etc. Those are all isms.

 

Racism is is often like th cliche about insanity, I find. Almost no one who demonstrates it thinks they do.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

And he said he'd accept the same ethnicity just without the Islam...

I think the comfort he derives from it is that they probably wouldn't form rape mobs and assault women en masse.

The SJW's brand us bigots regardless of what we say. May as well get some mileage out of it.

[Shryke]

Really a crime ring? To what purpose? The pepperspray conspiracy? You are a bit behind of the curve, this narrative was tried in germany about 3 days ago by some on the left, but in absolute lack of any kind of evidence for it and more and more contradictions piling on it was abandoned.

The next big thing was to try to proclaim that the octoberfest was equally bad...Yeah, no it was not. Well, that was before the numbers of accusations again went up to over 370. How did that happen? Well, they increased the numbers of police officers working on the task force and the new members first went out and collected all the reports from the police stations in the area...

Take a police force which is known to not really step it and now bolster the number of young men with criminal energy,time and not much regard for western women by at least several 1.000... Yeah, done.

Only 18? Thats about 2/3 of the total. And to be fair, their number is about to raise more quickly because the first to be found would have been those already known to officers so they would have needed to be in town a little while.
 

How I love the german left and the german media. When presented with two options:

1. Admit your fuck ups and just tell the truth from now on and everything will calm down.

2. Try sillier and sillier lies, proclaim the victims/people who tried to help to be the real perpetrators and everything will have a good likelyhood to blow up in a huge racist clusterfuck, but you get to feel a self rightous for about 1 or 2 days before your lies will collapse and everybody will start to believe even the most fucked up right wing concpiracy.

Yeah, they always go for 2...

Edit: Yeah, just stopped writing. Apperently now there are accusations turning up in switzerland, finnland and sweden, too... Showing many similarities.

Um, wtf are you on about? I'm quoting an article from The Guardian written today. This is what's being reported, at least in the english-language press. Lots of reports coming in, the majority not being sexual assault. (this link from today says only 40% were sexual in nature: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/09/cologne-protests-sex-attacks-germany)There's a lot of asylum seekers on the suspect list but they span a gamut of countries across the middle-east and north africa. And also apparently at least a serb and a US citizen and some germans. Witnesses, from what I've read and shown an example in The Guardian link in my previous post, suggest organization.

So looking at what's being reported you have a wide range of people from different backgrounds acting in a coordinated fashion, not just groping but also stealing alot of stuff. Which more suggests an organized criminal plan rather then "Refugees of any background are just horrible gropers by nature".

So where's this evidence that contradicts any of this information being reported on? What are you even talking about?

 

The rest of your post is, of course, the standard for the past few pages of this thread. Wild accusations against statements nobody has made and furious wanking over how this shows up all those imagined SJWs and left-wingers persecuting you.

[Dofs]

You specified an ethnic aspect as well.

What ethnicity I don't want to come, lol? What did you decrypt from my post?

[Wise Fool]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and one more for the road. Enjoy!

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

 

Does the duplicity of the globalist left know any bounds, any truth, anything of virtue to anyone at all?

 

 

Wise Fool: Angela Merkel is an idiot.

Hillary Clinton: I want to be like Angela Merkel.

 

http://m.huffpost.com/us/news/hillary-clinton-angela-merkel

Any Americans reading this thread, I implore you: help us make America great again.

That was a whole lot of nothing. Blah blah blah multiculturalism, blah blah, SJW, blah blah, globalist, blah blah, left, blah blah, Make America Great Again (tm). I expect nothing less from the yawning intellectual and moral and political abyss of rape culture. I mean, sure, you make a bit of noise implying you're against to mass rapes, but really, you're just against Muslims committing them, or Muslims not committing them for that matter. And what's your stance on feminism, or women in general, I wonder? Somehow I don't think it's any more progressive than conservative Islamic culture. In fact conservative Islamic culture is almost the same as conservative Western culture when it comes to issues like gays, women, human rights, ethics, torture, war, etc. You are all extremists, you are all radicals, and Trump is nothing more than an American jihadist trying to radicalize the whining and insipid angry white males. At least when the actual jihadists do the same for Muslims, usually, those Muslims have something more than first world problems to complain about, and don't go parading around their supposed principles with smiley face emoticons and troll comments and sniveling self-congratulations like you do.

But yes that was an interesting right wing article someone else wrote that you linked to. Good job, we're all proud of you for successfully turning on a computer.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

"No, YOU'RE THE RAPISTS!!!!!

Good one, brah! 

[Wise Fool]

Good one, brah! 

I'm glad both of you find the subject of rape just hilarious. Really shows how serious your political views and arguments are. Maybe you should insert some smiley faces while you're giggling and high fiving your troll friend!

[ElizabethB.]

Maybe one could show 'genuine political views and arguments' in this thread by paying attention, or at least trying to, to the basics of what happens in Europe? 

[mormont]

But are you also not discriminating people here when you are actually excluding people based on their opinion?

I'm certainly exercising some discrimination about which opinions are valid and which we should listen to, yes. But this is not a bad thing. 'Discrimination', in this sense, is how we tell the difference between a good point and a bad one, between the truth and lies, between reasonable reactions and pushing a dogma aimed at hurting other people based on the colour of their skin.

And when do you can call people a racist? Is everyone who get named by that title a racist? Are you racist when you made one racist remark during your entire life?

Of course not. But if you're currently espousing and sticking by racist views, then we should not pay attention to those.

Are you a racist when you believe the refugees should be helped in their own region and not in Europe?

That depends on why you believe that: if you genuinely believe it's the best thing for the refugees, or if you're just looking for reasons to keep the brown people out. 

And to be honest, a lot of issues are not dared being released by people who are not called racists and are only said by people who are called racists.

Not really true. As I've said, there are plenty of people - not least people from Syria and North Africa who have experienced this first hand - saying that there is a problem with how some young men from that part of the world regard women and that this needs to be tackled.

That's quite distinct from what the racists are saying, which is that in some way this incident shows that immigration from these areas can never work and will destroy Europe because their culture (which in this view, is somehow a monolithic thing which every single Muslim/Arab/Syrian shares and adheres to completely) is so incompatible with Western values.

Again, there's a distinction between wanting to deal with this problem, and wanting to use it to advance your existing racist agenda. It's not usually difficult to tell the difference. It's pretty evident in this thread who is doing the latter.

In a debate all voices must be heard; no matter who those people are; and the worth of their opinions should be weighted on what they say and not from who they come from.

I couldn't agree more. That's what I'm recommending. If your opinion is racist, it should be ignored.

[Biglose]

Um, wtf are you on about? I'm quoting an article from The Guardian written today. This is what's being reported, at least in the english-language press. Lots of reports coming in, the majority not being sexual assault. (this link from today says only 40% were sexual in nature: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/09/cologne-protests-sex-attacks-germany)There's a lot of asylum seekers on the suspect list but they span a gamut of countries across the middle-east and north africa. And also apparently at least a serb and a US citizen and some germans. Witnesses, from what I've read and shown an example in The Guardian link in my previous post, suggest organization.

So looking at what's being reported you have a wide range of people from different backgrounds acting in a coordinated fashion, not just groping but also stealing alot of stuff. Which more suggests an organized criminal plan rather then "Refugees of any background are just horrible gropers by nature".

So where's this evidence that contradicts any of this information being reported on? What are you even talking about?

To be precise two people with a german passport were involved.

The information is, that only about one third of the reports involve theft (which will probably even decline with the 200 new reports).

No crime organisation would (if it would even exist) generate that amount of heat on itself. Wide arrage of people is also not really true. All the reported description go towards north africa or arabic. It was coordianted true. But not by a crime organisation or anything like that. Police found pages with translations of refugees they picked up the next day with "I want to fuck you" and "I will kill you". So yeah, there was the plan to get together and massivly abuse/rape women. Probably organized over smartphones.  The value of items stolen is just far to low for the scope we are talking about. Probably under 10.000 Euro. 

The rest of your post is, of course, the standard for the past few pages of this thread. Wild accusations against statements nobody has made and furious wanking over how this shows up all those imagined SJWs and left-wingers persecuting you.

Unfortunatly it is true this time around. To remind you Rotherham also sounded like the wet dream of a right wing  conspiracy nut first. And then it became even worse. Police reports show, that the police demanded reinforcments and that they reported the abouse to their superiors right away (And yes also that the majority of the perpetrators they stopped/caught were refugees). Well the government is red/green. (social democrats+environmentalists)

Not only did they not even send reinforcements to the police they lied about the information they had for 6 days. (The reinforcements would have needed to be called in on a federal level and then it would have been an issue from day 1). This lead to the situation that the police could not make any arrests because if they would have send men and women to drive tha cars with the people they arrested they could not act to prevent further sexual violence/rape.
This is a huge fuck up done by the local government.

Even the federal state television had to apoligize because they did not report on it.
And this is only the beginning. Due to the massive scale women from all over germany start to report such incidents now. And the count goes higher and higher. We might end up with more reports of sexual harressment this sylvester than the rest of the year! (All in all in germany the count is at about 1000 cases!)

[Buckwheat]

Norway and Belgium are introducing some kind of courses or lectures for the asylum applicants that are supposed to teach them about the respectful communication between sexes and gender equality. The report I am reading does not say whether it is voluntary or obligatory for all applicants and whether it is supposed to target just men or men and women.

Thoughts? I personally think it is a step in the right direction, but I do not think it can help a lot. I am doubtful whether a few lectures can teach somebody to completely internalise other cultural norms than those they grew up with.

[Wouter]

 

To be precise two people with a german passport were involved.

The information is, that only about one third of the reports involve theft (which will probably even decline with the 200 new reports).

No crime organisation would (if it would even exist) generate that amount of heat on itself. Wide arrage of people is also not really true. All the reported description go towards north africa or arabic. It was coordianted true. But not by a crime organisation or anything like that. Police found pages with translations of refugees they picked up the next day with "I want to fuck you" and "I will kill you". So yeah, there was the plan to get together and massivly abuse/rape women. Probably organized over smartphones.  The value of items stolen is just far to low for the scope we are talking about. Probably under 10.000 Euro. 

Not only did they not even send reinforcements to the police they lied about the information they had for 6 days. (The reinforcements would have needed to be called in on a federal level and then it would have been an issue from day 1). This lead to the situation that the police could not make any arrests because if they would have send men and women to drive tha cars with the people they arrested they could not act to prevent further sexual violence/rape.
This is a huge fuck up done by the local government.

Even the federal state television had to apoligize because they did not report on it.
And this is only the beginning. Due to the massive scale women from all over germany start to report such incidents now. And the count goes higher and higher. We might end up with more reports of sexual harressment this sylvester than the rest of the year! (All in all in germany the count is at about 1000 cases!)

The Köln police even released a statement after new year's eve, in which they claimed the night had been calm. That alone should lead to the resignation of the mayor and the top of the Köln police; they flat-out lied in the hope to keept things quiet. It's only because of the storm on social media that the news couldn't be hidden anymore.

It's also curious that the scale is being downplayed now; if it weren't so many men, why wasn't the police able to intervene then? Because they were hugely outnumbered, that's why. Curiously, to put down a Pegida march they do have sufficient man, but I guess the mayor allowed them to act this time around.

Denial that this is about immigrants and asylum seekers is also bizarre, as if the victims don't know who the attackers were.

 

There is an interesting opinion piece published in the Flemish magazine Knack: http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/links-rijdt-zich-zo-graag-te-pletter-tegen-de-muur-van-zijn-eigen-grote-ideologische-gelijk/article-opinion-643375.html

It's an opinion by Luckas Vander Taelen, who was a European Parliament member for the Flemish Green Party from 1999 till 2002. He held various political offices for the Green party in Belgium till 2010, and he still was on the election list for this party in Brussels in 2014. The Green party is certainly a "progressive" one, in Belgian politics it is situated slightly to the left of the Socialist party and from a US POV it would be labelled as near-communist. The Green party was also one of the leading members of the "cordon sanitaire" against the Vlaams Blok/Vlaams Belang, and is heavily opposed to the now reigning NVA Flemisch Nationalist party. In short, we're not talking about neonazi's or neoliberals here and Vander Taelen was, and to some extent still is, one of them. However, he lives in a migrant-rich area of Brussels (unlike many of his ideological peers, who live in richer areas) and held some of his political offices theren, and through the last 10 years or so, has come to change his view to one that tends not to be appreciated by much in the green party (especially not the Walloon counterpart, also active in Brussels).

Vander Taelen now writes that the left likes to crash itself against the wall of its own ideological righteousness. He is amazed that it took days before the mainstream media brought the news, and he accuses those media that they practiced self-censorship in order to avoid a link with the mass immigration. He notes that even those who had cautiously made qualms about the cultural shock that such an influx may cause, was labelled a "xenophobe racist" (why, that sounds familiar, it's the same here!).

Norway, he continues, soon had realised that it's necessary to anticipate the problems that arise with immigrants coming from cultures that have a wholly different view on the position of females in society. They had noticed a rise in the number of rapes. Many asylum seekers had never seen women walking alone in the streets; in their cultural norms this was forbidden unless those women were whores. People had similar observations in the Flemish place Kapellen, where newcomers groped women in a public pool; they had never seen women in bikinis. He then connects this to what happened on the Tahrir place in Cairo.

He then asks some interesting questions to the people he used to associate with as a prominent member of the Green party and the Belgian progressives: why is wrong to see a cultural dimension in what happens? Does the left honestly thinks that culture and religion do not have an influence on the way people think and act (James Arryn, in this thread, implies that it doesn't; a perplexing statement astounding in its naivete)? Why would men, coming from a culture where the position of women is totally different than here, change their minds overnight when they arrive in Europe? What's the incentive to change thinking?

There is more (non-Dutch speakers can use Google translate) but he concludes: it's always the fault of the west, and don't mention the Islam! Even though the vast majority of the asylum seekers is from islamic cultures/countries, the i-word must be avoided and their cultural background may not be used as explanation because this is stigmatising.

How long will the left continue to be blind by principle whenever problematic cultural differences are involved? There is always the fear that acknowledging this would play into the hands of the rightwing parties. But it means that the left is afraid to talk about the root of the problems, and so they leave this field entirely to the right. It's a pity for the left, that the people are increasingly turning away from them.

Another interesting viewpoint by Vander Taelen, about the problems with radical islamism in Brussels, can be found here: http://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/wie-sluipende-radicalisering-in-brussel-aankaartte-was-een-racistische-islamofoob/article-opinion-626813.html

He mentions that the Walloon journalist Deborsu (from the Walloon state-TV) had uncovered that radical islamist literature could be bought freely in Molenbeek, but the socialist mayor Moureaux dismissed him as an islamophobe and denied there was a problem in the Molenbeek community. "Islamophoby is now what jewhate was in the 30s" Moureaux declared at the time. This was well before Molenbeek got world famous as the place where the attacks on Paris were planned.

Among other things, Deborsu also showed in an Anderlecht mosque that they talked in a very mysoginistic way about women. Vander Taelen himself noted that in his community, Vorst, a radical islam could state (without any problems or upheaval) that AIDS is a godly punishment for indecent behaviour and that stoning of women is God's will. In the same period, an islam critic could not give a speech at a Brussels university because aggressive crowds were shouting. 

Vander Taelen continues that this did not lead to a political will to tackle the growing radicalism. To the contrary, the socialist senator Bert Anciaux (a well-known Flemish "bleeding heart" progressive) proposed to outlaw islamophoby (and thus, in effect, to silence people like Deborsu and Vander Taelen) and he blamed Vander Taelen for strengthening Vlaams Beland and/or NVA with his criticism of radical islamists. At the same time, Anciaux had no problem with another Socialist party member, Ahidar, who had a picture of an armed Syriafighter on his facebook page with the text: "someone has to do it ... our prayers are with you".

 

 

This behaviour of the socialist party may be influenced by the voting demographics: migrants vote almost exclusively for "progressive" parties. A curious contrast with their own culture, which is downright and strongly reactionary compared to what socialists and green supposedly stand for.

 

 

 

 

 

[ElizabethB.]

Norway and Belgium are introducing some kind of courses or lectures for the asylum applicants that are supposed to teach them about the respectful communication between sexes and gender equality. The report I am reading does not say whether it is voluntary or obligatory for all applicants and whether it is supposed to target just men or men and women.

Thoughts? I personally think it is a step in the right direction, but I do not think it can help a lot. I am doubtful whether a few lectures can teach somebody to completely internalise other cultural norms than those they grew up with.

Are lectures or courses about gender equality  something completely new in Norway and Belgium?

[ElizabethB.]

The Köln police even released a statement after new year's eve, in which they claimed the night had been calm. That alone should lead to the resignation of the mayor and the top of the Köln police; they flat-out lied in the hope to keept things quiet. It's only because of the storm on social media that the news couldn't be hidden anymore.

It's also curious that the scale is being downplayed now; if it weren't so many men, why wasn't the police able to intervene then? Because they were hugely outnumbered, that's why. Curiously, to put down a Pegida march they do have sufficient man, but I guess the mayor allowed them to act this time around.

Denial that this is about immigrants and asylum seekers is also bizarre, as if the victims don't know who the attackers were.

The mayor Reker's comment about the arm's lenght was insult to injury. 

How are the girls or the civilians in general supposed to do that in a situation where the town's policeforces are completely helpless? 

To maintain a peacefull society the police need to be able to deal with both pediga and the tahrirization.