European politics: Into the "right" futur

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Guess the EU should keep them at arm's length, eh?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12090388/Europe-in-crisis-over-sex-attacks-by-migrants-amid-calls-for-emergency-EU-meeting.html

 

“The idea of multicultural Europe has failed,” proclaimed Robert Fico, the prime minister of Slovakia, calling for an extraordinary summit of EU leaders next week to discuss fresh reports of migrant-led sex attacks emerging from Germany, Switzerland, Sweden, Austria and Finland. Bohuslav Sobotka, his Czech counterpart, immediately echoed the call.

 

“The migrants cannot be integrated, it's simply impossible,” Mr Fico added, citing a “clear link” between the sex attacks and the influx of refugees that has swept through Europe from the failed states of Syria and North Africa.

 

--please take a couple elections off liberals.

TPTWP,

You can't know that until some attempt has been made to bring those responsible to justice.  It's only been a week since this happened.

[Tijgy]

 

Guess the EU should keep them at arm's length, eh?

Haha, the leader of the green party made that same joke in the Belgian Chamber of Representatives against one of the representatives of the extreme right party (x). 

But to be honest, I believe most of the time the whole debate about any criticism against the islam or the Arabic/North-African culture is corrupt. From the moment you dare to say anything against them, a lot of time the debate is stopped because those people are called racist or fascist. At this moment it looks according the rumors, the accident incidents in Cologne might be related to a problem in the North-African/Arabic communities. Even if this is not the real truth, there are a lot of other incidents in Europe (f.e. asylum centres, remarks on how young people of those communities act on the streets in comparison with the young men in general, ...) which makes it impossible to deny those problems or gives at least the general public in Europe the image that those problems do exist. 

Yes, in the Catholic Community there are also a lot of incidents committed by Catholic priests to young children. But if those things are found out now, the Church itself is (rightfully) considered responsible.  Sexual offenses do indeed happen in every communiy. But if those offenses do exist in a certain group more than other groups, there is a structural problem in that group/community that should be addressed and that not just can shut down by outcries of racism or by things happening in other communities/groups of European society. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Haha, the leader of the green party made that same joke in the Belgian Chamber of Representatives against one of the representatives of the extreme right party (x). 

But to be honest, I believe most of the time the whole debate about any criticism against the islam or the Arabic/North-African culture is corrupt. From the moment you dare to say anything against them, a lot of time the debate is stopped because those people are called racist or fascist. At this moment it looks according the rumors, the accident in Cologne might be related to a problem in the North-African/Arabic communities. Even if this is not the real truth, there are a lot of other incidents in Europe (f.e. asylum centres, remarks on how young people of those communities act on the streets in comparison with the young men in general, ...) which makes it impossible to deny those problems or gives at least the general public in Europe the image that those problems do exist. 

Yes, in the Catholic Community there are also a lot of incidents committed by Catholic priests to young children. But if those things are found out now, the Church itself is (rightfully) considered responsible.  Sexual offenses do indeed happen in every communiy. But if those offenses do exist in a certain group more than other groups, there is a structural problem in that group/community that should be addressed and that not just can shut down by outcries of racism or by things happening in other communities/groups of European society. 

Tijgy,

How are the attacks in Cologne and elsewhere "accidents"?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

From The Economist:

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21685512-attacks-women-mobs-young-men-inflame-germanys-refugee-debate-new-year-new-fear

From the article:

 

O

ddly, the Cologne police reported the following day that the festivities had been relaxed and peaceful. Only after scores of women came forward did the country react with rage. The interior and justice ministers promised to bring down the full force of the law—even as the police had to admit that they as yet had no information to make individual arrests. Angela Merkel, the chancellor, called the assaults “disgusting” and demanded justice “without regard to origin or background”.

With 100 reports of sexual attacks why would the police report the celebrations were "relaxed and peaceful"?  Surely, they knew about the attacks?

From the Washington Post:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/asylum-seekers-suspected-in-rash-of-new-years-eve-assaults/2016/01/08/af1ed4c8-b584-11e5-8abc-d09392edc612_story.html

From the article:

 At least 21 asylum seekers from the Middle East and North Africa are suspects in the New Year’s Eve rampage of sexual assaults and thefts in the German city of Cologne, authorities said, as word emerged of similar acts in Finland and Sweden as well as other German cities — including the alleged gang rape of two teenage girls by four Syrian men.

Officials said it was not clear whether the attacks had been coordinated. But the broadening allegations were rapidly escalating into a full-blown crisis that on Friday engulfed Cologne’s police chief, Wolfgang Albers, who was suspended because of “lost trust” in his force. The mounting scandal, meanwhile, was quickly deepening public outrage, prompting calls for tighter controls on newcomers while threatening to ignite a new wave of anti-refugee sentiment in Europe.

...

A spokesman for the German federal police, however, said that at least 34 suspects have been identified in the Cologne attacks and that authorities are still seeking evidence from witnesses to pursue arrests.

Out of the 34 suspects, 21 were asylum seekers — and the majority of those, the spokesman said, arrived this past year. The 34 reportedly include 10 Algerians, 10 Moroccans, five Iranians, four Syrians, two Germans, one American, one Serbian and one Iraqi.

The police official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity in accordance with customary policy, said overwhelmed Cologne police did not detain or immediately question the 34 suspects because of the unfolding scenes of chaos. Authorities, he said, were currently questioning victims and evaluating videos from the night of the assaults.

 

 

Where is this going to end up?  Mass deportations?  I believe those responsible should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.  If this is a cultural problem will such prosecutions be enough to deter future incidents of this type?  Will such prosecutions merely drive migrants toward radicalized elements among them?

[Tijgy]

Tijgy,

How are the attacks in Cologne and elsewhere "accidents"?

Eum, it was by accident I used the word "accident"; I actually wanted to use the word incidents (which I am now starting to doubt it is also a correct term)?

 

[Clueless Northman]

The number of reported attacks is growing with every single day, even now. There were basically no report on January 1st, they came afterwards. I mean, on the 5th, articles spoke of something like 60 reports, and now we're close to 200.

Though of course police officials would've known there was a lot of trouble the previous night. I suppose they assumed they could sweep it under the rug and no one would openly complain, because good German women wouldn't want to look like racists by accusing Middle-Eastern people.

[Biglose]

The number of reported attacks is growing with every single day, even now. There were basically no report on January 1st, they came afterwards. I mean, on the 5th, articles spoke of something like 60 reports, and now we're close to 200.

Though of course police officials would've known there was a lot of trouble the previous night. I suppose they assumed they could sweep it under the rug and no one would openly complain, because good German women wouldn't want to look like racists by accusing Middle-Eastern people.

Thats about it. But it should be mentioned that the higher ups tried to swep it under the rug, after that failed they blamed the lower ranks. They responded by leaking a report casting a very dark picture. Basically it says that the police knew and tried to fight it from the start. And as it turns out their calls for reinforcments were not heeded by the higher ups, who denied it. (Because the second they would have been asking for additional "troops" it would have become clear that something was wrong.) And it was, according to the report, known that many of the attackers were asylum seekers.

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Eum, it was by accident I used the word "accident"; I actually wanted to use the word incidents (which I am now starting to doubt it is also a correct term)?

 

Ah, the joy of autocorrect?

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Riddle me this multi cultists: how does turning every white nation in Europe into the same cookie cutter globalist mutt supposed to promote diversity?

Why no criticism of Japan's lack of multiculturalism?

Perhaps because dismantling unique cultures is a travesty?

If your nation desires to go that route then so be it; but don't force your homogeneity onto Poland and Hungary or Japan or Heaven forbid the Saudis, Iranians or Afghans.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

 

 

 

 

Riddle me this multi cultists: how does turning every white nation in Europe into the same cookie cutter globalist mutt supposed to promote diversity?

 

Why no criticism of Japan's lack of multiculturalism?

 

Perhaps because dismantling unique cultures is a travesty?

 

TPTWP,

Allowing immigration does not equal dismantling "unique" cultures.  Further "culture" by its nature is a fluid and changing concept.  I seriously doubt you could drop a Diayamo or Peasant from 18th century Japan into modern Japan without a huge culture shock.  As such Japanese culture has already changed making your complaint about "unique cultures" being ruined by immigration rather pointless.  

Cultures change whether immigration is allowed or not.  Your point is moot.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Except Germany and EU wished to FORCE immigration onto Hungary and Poland but got justly rebuked.

My point is not moot. For all their caterwauling about the ills of imperialism they only wish to expedite the process under the auspices of "diversity".

If they're that into a multicultural society, why don't they emigrate to El Salvador or Haiti to enrich those cultures?

Oh right, because the individuals pushing these policies are the most privileged of the privileged and don't have to experience their folly firsthand.

[Tijgy]

Ah, the joy of autocorrect?

No, I think I just made a mistake; and I really did not want to say I think their actions were accidents. In the same post I also said I considered those actions and similar actions committed by other people as sexual offenses.

Or I think it is a sort form of dyslexia because I just saw I wrote again "accidents" when I wanted to write "incidents" when I corrected my post. (a deep sigh)

But the main message of my post was that I do think that there is a problem with the North African/Arabic community regarding incidents of sexual offenses (possible Cologne, asylum centres, ....) and that there should a debate about it without people yelling immediately racism/discrimination and without people referring to other problems of certain groups being complicit in sexual offenses (priests, bosses, teachers...; problems that also should be addressed). It is way to easy to say sexual offenses are committed because "men are just men", an argument used by some people. The reason why those groups commits those actions, is probably different from group to group and should be examined each apart. For this reason I dislike the argument "but yeah, there are also problems in our society. All those sexual offenses committed by priests and teachers" which in fact is only a way to ignore the real problem in this discussion. 

 

[mormont]

Riddle me this multi cultists: how does turning every white nation in Europe into the same cookie cutter globalist mutt supposed to promote diversity?

Every nation contains within it a diversity of cultures, and always has: nothing wrong with accommodating new ones, that has always happened. If you think that European nations are not diverse, then that merely shows your unfamiliarity with what you're pontificating about.

What skin colour has to do with it, I don't know.

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

Every nation contains within it a diversity of cultures, and always has: nothing wrong with accommodating new ones, that has always happened. If you think that European nations are not diverse, then that merely shows your unfamiliarity with what you're pontificating about.

What skin colour has to do with it, I don't know.

Because this pretentious liberal "intellectual" bullshit is only ever applied to European nations.

See examples I've already provided.

[mormont]

Because this pretentious liberal "intellectual" bullshit is only ever applied to European nations.

Is it?

The UK has acquired quite a large immigrant Polish population in recent years. I know people who are concerned about the impact of that: you hear quite a lot of complaints about Polish shops opening, Polish workers 'taking' jobs, Polish immigrants committing crimes. All of that is just as much xenophobic nonsense as the current wave of anti-Syrian sentiment, of course. But I'm interested to hear if, with your stout transatlantic defence of the Poles, you are inclined to condemn those people in parts of the UK who're concerned about Polish immigration?

[ThePrunesThatWasPromised]

I'm not inclined to condemn people who are concerned about immigration.

Supposing that I were, however; I'd be interested to know how concerns about jobs is anything but a strawman compared to concerns over security with regard to migrants from NA/ME.

Are Polish migrants forming rape mobs in Lowestoft and Birmingham?

[Tijgy]

I am not sure if anyone put a link to this article of the Bild about the whole "conspiracy" of the authorities telling the police they should tell some information (regarding crimes committed by refugees) to the public: x. 

[Wise Fool]

Haha, the leader of the green party made that same joke in the Belgian Chamber of Representatives against one of the representatives of the extreme right party (x). 

But to be honest, I believe most of the time the whole debate about any criticism against the islam or the Arabic/North-African culture is corrupt. From the moment you dare to say anything against them, a lot of time the debate is stopped because those people are called racist or fascist.

A lot of the time this is because the people "saying anything against" Muslims or immigrants are racist or fascist. Like Prunes, who is so very concerned about the Whites of Europe, a lot of people are retreating into the comforting warm caves of stupidity and ignorance and nurturing xenophobia these days as a coping strategy. It's quite sad and disturbing and dangerous.

[mormont]

I'm not inclined to condemn people who are concerned about immigration.

I'm not surprised. Yet it's clear enough that you're more concerned with some immigration than other immigration, and it's you who brought skin colour into it. So I think we will have to draw our own conclusions about that.

For now, though, I think we should get back to discussing the details of this incident in particular.