Stag_legion Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Lets say stannis survives winterfell and is alive for some time in TWOW, how likely is he to abandon melisandre's religion, and what would convince him to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lord of the Crossing Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Not likely. He's cooked a lot of people already in the name of R'hllor. He's Master Chef now. It's not easy finding another line of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Not likely. He's cooked a lot of people already in the name of R'hllor. He's Master Chef now. It's not easy finding another line of work. How many people has stannis actually burned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Quite likely. Melisandre and her faith is just another means to an end for Stannis. Right now he is convinced that they can help him become King, if something else materializes to increase his chances then he will ditch the Red Priest and her religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Quite likely. Melisandre and her faith is just another means to an end for Stannis. Right now he is convinced that they can help him become King, if something else materializes to increase his chances then he will ditch the Red Priest and her religion.So would he adopt a secular position or revert back to the seven? or convert to the old gods?It would be funny if Bran talking through a weirwood with stannis made him convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Cold Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 How many people has stannis actually burned?Well, Melisandre burned lord Sunglass, Alester Florent was burned too, those three guys on the march to Winterfell. There might have been more, i cant remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag_legion Posted December 14, 2015 Author Share Posted December 14, 2015 Well, Melisandre burned lord Sunglass, Alester Florent was burned too, those three guys on the march to Winterfell. There might have been more, i cant remember. So the three cannibals, Alester Florent and fake Mance were burned on stannis's orders. Burning is terrible of course, but some posters make it sound like stannis has burned hundreds of men. They also neglect the fact that he none of the people he ordered burned were burned for religious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 So the three cannibals, Alester Florent and fake Mance were burned on stannis's orders. Burning is terrible of course, but some posters make it sound like stannis has burned hundreds of men. They also neglect the fact that he none of the people he ordered burned were burned for religious reasons. After Stannis orders the burning of the sept of Dragonstone castle, the Rambtons attack and kill some of his men. For that they were condemned to death. Lord Sunglass tells Stannis that after Stannis' conversion it would be impossible for him to support a follower of a false god, and so he went back on his feudal oath. For that he was condemned to death. The Septon joined the Rambton in protest, and was imprisoned, but not burned, since all he did was to encourage the Rambtons, he did not personally murder any of Stannis' men. He is last known to be in Dragonstone's dungeons. Alester Florent conspired to surrender in Stannis' name, and for this treason he was condemned to death. On the Wall Mance was an oathbreaker and enemy of the realm. For his crimes he was condemned to death. On the march to Winterfell there are 4 cannibals who were condemned to death. Many posters have pointed to a supposed hypocrisy in Stannis' decision to condemn them to death, seeing as he had considered resorting to cannibalism himself during the siege of Storm's End. However, to take from real history examples - Unauthorised Cannibalism is different from authorised cannibalism. The 4 soldiers were condemned for the former, thus breaking discipline. All in all we have 2 Rambtons (2 more were slain while attacking Stannis' men), Sunglass, Flornet, "Mance", and the 4 cannibals close the current list at 9. With the Karstarks it would be 14 in Winds, and with Theon or Asha (depending on the theory), it would be a total of 15 by early Winds.They were all burned for religious reasons, they were condemned to death for other reasons. Add the Karstarks in early Winds, and they burn for being stupid, and convinient at the time. They were offered the sword if they don't waste Stannis' time. Theon or Asha can go either way, depending on what would serve Stannis' goals better. As for OP's question, Stannis seems to truly believe in what Mel says, he believe in the Great Other and the army of the Others coming to bring death and destruction on Westeros. On the other hand it isn't hard to see him come to see that the threat may not have to mean that Mel is right in everything, and that her religion may be as pointless as the others. At that point it's just a question of what would better serve his goals of defending the realm and defeating his lesser threats to the south later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 All it would really take is for Melisandre to out live her usefulness, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ravenstark Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 If something more useful to his goals shows up, very likely.So would he adopt a secular position or revert back to the seven? or convert to the old gods?It would be funny if Bran talking through a weirwood with stannis made him convert. Bran would be like "I am a god" and force Stannis to worship him. Would be funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathYon Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I always got the impression that Stannis was just using Mel. It's possible that he completely believed her at some point, for now she's just a useful ally. I also doubt the cannibals were burnt purely for religious reasons, I'm sure Stannis spent enough time with Jon to be told about the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sullen Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I think it's unlikely.I think he doesn't have much time left. He'll get a few victories, become progressively more zealous, then things start turning sour, he'll lose it, burn his only child (effectively ending the Baratheon line), and then gets roasted by dragonfire, as he himself foresaw in the flames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimJames Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Melisandre is the main influence on his faith. If she perishes (and I don't see her living to the end) then Stannis will turn away from The Red Faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Guy Garlan Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 Bran would be like "I am a god" and force Stannis to worship him. Would be funny.This is Stannis we're talking about. He'd be all, "Shut up. I won't talk to a tree, I'm not Mark Wahlberg in The Happening and you sure as shit ain't Treebeard. If I wanted to listen to a plant I would've stayed at King's Landing and talked to Pycelle. Now bend your root to me" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artos Cold Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 After Stannis orders the burning of the sept of Dragonstone castle, the Rambtons attack and kill some of his men. For that they were condemned to death. Lord Sunglass tells Stannis that after Stannis' conversion it would be impossible for him to support a follower of a false god, and so he went back on his feudal oath. For that he was condemned to death. The Septon joined the Rambton in protest, and was imprisoned, but not burned, since all he did was to encourage the Rambtons, he did not personally murder any of Stannis' men. He is last known to be in Dragonstone's dungeons. Alester Florent conspired to surrender in Stannis' name, and for this treason he was condemned to death. On the Wall Mance was an oathbreaker and enemy of the realm. For his crimes he was condemned to death. On the march to Winterfell there are 4 cannibals who were condemned to death. Many posters have pointed to a supposed hypocrisy in Stannis' decision to condemn them to death, seeing as he had considered resorting to cannibalism himself during the siege of Storm's End. However, to take from real history examples - Unauthorised Cannibalism is different from authorised cannibalism. The 4 soldiers were condemned for the former, thus breaking discipline. All in all we have 2 Rambtons (2 more were slain while attacking Stannis' men), Sunglass, Flornet, "Mance", and the 4 cannibals close the current list at 9. With the Karstarks it would be 14 in Winds, and with Theon or Asha (depending on the theory), it would be a total of 15 by early Winds.They were all burned for religious reasons, they were condemned to death for other reasons. Add the Karstarks in early Winds, and they burn for being stupid, and convinient at the time. They were offered the sword if they don't waste Stannis' time. Theon or Asha can go either way, depending on what would serve Stannis' goals better. As for OP's question, Stannis seems to truly believe in what Mel says, he believe in the Great Other and the army of the Others coming to bring death and destruction on Westeros. On the other hand it isn't hard to see him come to see that the threat may not have to mean that Mel is right in everything, and that her religion may be as pointless as the others. At that point it's just a question of what would better serve his goals of defending the realm and defeating his lesser threats to the south later.One of the cannibals was killed before being burned if i remember rightly, so the count is down to 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyrhex Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 One of the cannibals was killed before being burned if i remember rightly, so the count is down to 8. I don't think that changes the fact that Stannis sentanced him to death by fire. If we want to be specific "Mance" was also killed before the fire got to him, and the 2 Rambtons and lord Sunglass were likely burned by Selyse's order, with Stannis later accepting his wife's responsibility in ASOS. It seems odd that after having sent Mel away so she could not take credit for his victory, he would order her to make a very public offering for his victory.Either way, it's not the numbers, it's the narrative showing burnings to be a more evil way to go. Even characters who do far worse suddenly feel the need to comment that this is the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Reckoner Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 His first lines in respect to R'hollor were something to the effect of, "How many swords will the Lord of Light put into my hands?"I think he'll stick with it when it proves useful and discard it when it seems worthless. The way I see it - since they were condemned to death, may as well try to get some use out of the sentence. Hence, burning. It's not so much pious as practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saving Stannis Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Seems pretty likely Melisandre will burn Shireen without Stannis's knowledge. Once that happens, all bets are off. Combined with the fact that he's made his seat at the Nightfort, it would seem Team Stannisandre isn't long for this world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.