US-Politics The Resistible Rise of Donald J. Trump

[davos]

same thing that was done to the protesters who occupied the Wisconsin state capital building

very different situation.  For the first several weeks of the occupation, the protesters were there legally.  The state capital building is open to all anytime public business is being conducted  (though that may have been changed in the intervening years).  Democratic members of the state assembly kept hearings running around clock on Act 10 so as to delay a vote.  The occupation initially started to provide a constant pool of people to testify at these hearings and grew from there.  Once the assembly GOP found a way to force a vote, which was after several weeks, the legal basis for the occupation ended.  The occupation continued, but remained nonviolent throughout.  While I can't say that none of the protesters we really carrying weapons, I spent a lot of time down there during these events and never saw any. There were no threats to use violence to resist expulsion and protests stayed peaceful.

The present situation is very different in that the occupiers have weapons, have never had a legal basis for what they are doing, and have threatened  violence to resist attempts to remove them. If they did not have weapons and were indicating a willingness to use them, I would be OK with occuping the building as an act of protest even though I don't agree with them.  I don't think force should be used to them. Comparing this to the occupation of the WI capital building is simply not valid, though.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

It means I get in touch with more aspects of my self than with some acerbic, angry little lawyer role. You however, do not, and so you are left perpetually confused. You probably think cynically about Obama's tears during the speech. The reason is because the idea of a man crying makes you feel uncomfortable.

I suspect that you've finally hit the point where you are psychologically incapable of having a conversation with actual human beings, as most of your comments appear to be you dueling with some aspect of your subconscious. It's literally the only way I can explain the absurd level of projection going on here. 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I'm rather curious as to why you're so certain that she didn't mean exactly what she said since Obama's "fake tears" are a meme spreading through right-wing media as we speak.

Infowars

Red State

Breitbart editor 

It is very obvious that Andrea Tantaros thinks that Obama's tears were not the product of his genuine feelings of sadness about gun violence. It is also equally clear that she does not actually believe that Obama used an onion or baby shampoo to make himself cry. There is no contradiction between these two things. 

[Wise Fool]

I suspect that you've finally hit the point where you are psychologically incapable of having a conversation with actual human beings, as most of your comments appear to be you dueling with some aspect of your subconscious. It's literally the only way I can explain the absurd level of projection going on here. 

Okay then, answer me this. Does the president crying make you feel uncomfortable? Is your position regarding his tears cynical?

[davos]

It's a concealed carry state so I couldn't say. 

not at that time.  The occupation of the capital building occured in February and March of 2011.  The law legalizing concealed carry was passed after the occupation had ended and  did not go into effect until November of 2011.  

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Okay then, answer me this. Does the president crying make you feel uncomfortable? Is your position regarding his tears cynical?

I'm not even sure how to answer the first question. I think the whole public discussion of gun violence gets uncomfortable, especially when you talk about tragedies like Sandy Hook, which are very upsetting. So I think the whole scene is appropriately uncomfortable. But no, the fact that Obama cried does not make me feel uncomfortable.

I also do not doubt that Obama's tears were the result of his genuine feelings on gun violence. But I do also think that he took advantage of his tears for a good photo op, which is what you would expect of a good politician, and is not something that I think is inherently bad or blameworthy. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

 

 Like him or hate him, the man has a talent for drama.

 

[Wise Fool]

I'm not even sure how to answer the first question. I think the whole public discussion of gun violence gets uncomfortable, especially when you talk about tragedies like Sandy Hook, which are very upsetting. So I think the whole scene is appropriately uncomfortable. But no, the fact that Obama cried does not make me feel uncomfortable.

I also do not doubt that Obama's tears were the result of his genuine feelings on gun violence. But I do also think that he took advantage of his tears for a good photo op, which is what you would expect of a good politician, and is not something that I think is inherently bad or blameworthy. 

Well alright, then.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Well alright, then.

Now will you explain to me how you have such an intimate knowledge of Obama's sexual mastery?

Will you show me on the doll where Obama has touched you? 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

So she believes tears were fake and insincere but she doesn't believe they're actually caused by an onion. That seems awfully like you're straining at gnats to me.

If you are willing to stipulate that DanteGabriel is a gnat, I'd probably agree with you. 

[Wise Fool]

Now will you explain to me how you have such an intimate knowledge of Obama's sexual mastery?

Will you show me on the doll where Obama has touched you? 

Well, he clearly knows how to dance. That's pretty sexy. He can sing too, which is sexy. I perceive that he's in touch with his emotions, which is sexier than being in denial about them or repressing their expression out of shame or whatever. He's a husband, and I intuitively sense that Michelle thinks he's sexy. He's a father to his children, which is sexy. He seems comfortable with his own sexuality, his gender, his masculinity, his emotions, his opinions. That is what I mean by "sexual." The acceptable use of mature male sexual energy, not merely in sexual activity itself, but in all masculine activities and standards within the bounds of social norms.

I don't feel ashamed to say any of this so I'm not sure the doll is necessary.

 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Well, he clearly knows how to dance. That's pretty sexy. He can sing too, which is sexy. I perceive that he's in touch with his emotions, which is sexier than being in denial about them or repressing their expression out of shame or whatever. He's a husband, and I intuitively sense that Michelle thinks he's sexy. He's a father to his children, which is sexy. He seems comfortable with his own sexuality, his gender, his masculinity, his emotions, his opinions. That is what I mean by "sexual." The acceptable use of mature male sexual energy, not merely in sexual activity itself, but in all masculine activities and standards within the bounds of social norms.

I don't feel ashamed to say any of this so I'm not sure the doll is necessary.

 

We are getting pretty far afield of the actual topic, so I think I'll let this be my last post in this absurd digression. 

There is a difference between your perception that something is "sexy" - ie: that you are sexually attracted to a particular quality - and something being "sexual - ie: of or related to having sex.

You may think that being a good father is sexy, but that does not mean that being a good father is sexual. (Quite the opposite, usually). None of your examples indicate that Obama has any enhanced level of sexual mastery, even if I were to take them all at face value. 

[Wise Fool]

We are getting pretty far afield of the actual topic, so I think I'll let this be my last post in this absurd digression. 

There is a difference between your perception that something is "sexy" - ie: that you are sexually attracted to a particular quality - and something being "sexual - ie: of or related to having sex.

You may think that being a good father is sexy, but that does not mean that being a good father is sexual. (Quite the opposite, usually). None of your examples indicate that Obama has any enhanced level of sexual mastery, even if I were to take them all at face value. 

But you asked me why *I* thought he had mastery of his self and his sexual (ie gender) powers. Not why you think that. Obviously you don't, or else you, having no less knowledge about Obama than I, would agree. And I'm not trying to persuade you really. I don't care that you don't understand any of this and have to mock it, dismiss it, ignore it, and otherwise provide ego based defenses against it.

I mean there are other people than you reading! And even if not, there is me, and my opinion, which does not require groupies.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

But you asked me why *I* thought he had mastery of his self and his sexual (ie gender) powers. Not why you think that. Obviously you don't, or else you, having no less knowledge about Obama than I, would agree. And I'm not trying to persuade you really. I don't care that you don't understand any of this and have to mock it, dismiss it, ignore it, and otherwise provide ego based defenses against it.

I mean there are other people than you reading! And even if not, there is me, and my opinion, which does not require groupies.

Ego defenses, activated! 

This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing with your observations about Obama. This is about whether what you are saying makes any sense. I'm pretty sure it does not. Even if your judgments about, say, Obama being a good parent are accurate, that just doesn't mean what you think it means - ie: it's not proof of his supposed sexual mastery.

Your claims are not wrong - they're just incoherent gobbledygook. There's no basis upon which to judge their rightness or wrongness. 

And despite what I said before, I am going to do my best to suppress my urge to tirelessly rebut and make this my final post on this digression.

 

[Wise Fool]

That word again. Incoherent. My dear boy, you really are confused. Fine, just ignore what I said, and move on, if that's what you need to do!

I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the subject, though. Like this article ranking him the third sexiest president (after Teddy Roosevelt and JFK).  This article goes into masculinity and male sexuality and gender roles and role models in general a lot more succinctly, and it's mostly picture based.

Easier for you to understand!

 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Your claims are not wrong - they're just incoherent gobbledygook. There's no basis upon which to judge their rightness or wrongness. 

Women, young children and even some full grown liberal men have these things called feelings and emotions which sometimes affect the manner in which they perceive things. I know this is might be an alien concept to many conservatives, but you really should familiarize yourself with this phenomena.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

That word again. Incoherent. My dear boy, you really are confused. Fine, just ignore what I said, and move on, if that's what you need to do!

I'd like to hear other people's opinions on the subject, though. Like this article ranking him the third sexiest president (after Teddy Roosevelt and JFK).  This article goes into masculinity and male sexuality and gender roles and role models in general a lot more succinctly, and it's mostly picture based.

Easier for you to understand!

 

Even though im going against my self-imposed political ban, here goes. Obama is a gguy that is clearly in control of any situation he presented. Is that sexy? Sure. I wouldn't claim that he's a man's man though. He doesn't like guns, bro! Lol. Anyway I see the general point you are making and I concur. He would dominate any room he walks into, and that alone would make most women/men get all gobbleygooked!

[James Arryn]

Wtf?

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

This entire conversation is really really stupid

It's the liberal equivalent of discussing how alpha Trump and Putin are.

[Michael Seswatha Jordan]

Wtf?

sorry, I was just making light of the situation.