US-Politics The Resistible Rise of Donald J. Trump

[TheKitttenGuard]

No, he simply said, those guys should be treated the same way. You suggested the teachers were not armed, and you implied that it makes a difference to you. If I understand Commodore correctly, we are on the same page of that issue, that it should not make a difference whether they are armed or not. 

So the question is really for you, if you are shying away because those guys are armed, then you might want to sell guns to the teachers for their next protest.

I do not recall a storming of the state Capitol to break up the protests.  I recall that many in the Right Wing media wanting that to happen and you want that to happen  now.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Those incidents are not comparable imo. With Ruby Ridge and Waco, you can argue they were on their land and they died defending it, but here they occupied a Federal Building. So here you need to do quite a bit of mental gymnastics to turn them into victims of a cruel tyranical state (or martyrs if you prefer that terminology). And I doubt those traveling troupe of sovereign citizens will risk their neck. Assuming this is white privilege performance art, it's just calling their bluff. If they are true believers, then it's just a matter of time, before somebody comes to harm during their stunts. Either way, I would prefer to put an end to that rather sooner than later.

BR, Notone,

Do you guys expect this to be reacted to rationally?  People looking to Martyr themselves for a cause and those who support them are operating outside of normal rational thought.  

I say starve them out.

[BloodRider]

BR, Notone,

Do you guys expect this to be reacted to rationally?  People looking to Martyr themselves for a cause and those who support them are operating outside of normal rational thought.  

I say starve them out.

No, at least not from the ranchers.  By the same token I wouldn't expect people outside that group to unquestioningly further that narrative. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

BR,

People frequently react emotionally to these things.  I'd be shocked if the Feds go in guns blazing if there weren't a backlash.

[Swordfish]

Sorry Nestor. These guys are like ISIS in a meaningful way. Just scaled waaaay down.

Right.  Like, without all the beheadings, for example.

[Swordfish]

 

It is domestic terrorism, but I think the Feds are trying to avoid the mistakes of the 90s, (specifically at Waco and Ruby Ridge) where heavy handed tactics caused the true launch of the militia movement of the 90s and resulted in a rapid multiplication of militia groups.

And also, you know, the burning alive of a bunch of people, including a bunch of kids.

 

[Relic]

Are Obama's very public tears the first time an American President has cried in public?

And, does it diminish your opinion of him? 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

No.

[BloodRider]

BR,

People frequently react emotionally to these things.  I'd be shocked if the Feds go in guns blazing if there weren't a backlash.

Oh, I agree.  I still think it is worth the energy to point out that Waco was a bunch of cultists immolating themselves and their kids.  Otherwise we get CT folks buying into the nuttery.  See Swordfish's post above for example.

While we are at it, lets point out that Ruby Ridge was an incident where the separatists got more consideration than Rice did.  Both were tragic fuckups in the part of LE.  Only one has inspired people to bomb civilians.

[Wise Fool]

Obama's tears strike me as genuine. My opinion of the man is not affected by them, at least not negatively. To me it seems he is very much in tune with his own emotions but also perfectly in control of them. He always is, and always has been, and has had to be, given all the shit he's had to endure being the first black president. He's a man, and a man's man, and a father, and of course he tears up thinking about the slaughter of children. Who wouldn't, except a monster,  or someone so out of touch with the emotions of compassion or grief that they hide it with apathy, indifference, dark humor, numbness, obsession, ideology or addiction?

[Wise Fool]

Now I am watching Donald Trump's January 4 speech in Massachusetts. The ability he has to speak words that touch on the crowd's darkest fears, and use that fear to stoke the fire of rage, and use that rage to channel it into support and adoration for himself is awe-inspiring.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I tear up every time I read The Velveteen Rabbit.  I have nothing against honestly held emotion.

[Wise Fool]

I am not surprised. Pete Santilli, one of the Oregon "militia" spokesmen and a poster child for it in Fox News coverage of the "protest," is an extreme misogynist, who has been known to rant graphically and explicitly about his fantasy of murdering Hillary Clinton.

This is about the second amendment though, right?

[DanteGabriel]

Obama's tears strike me as genuine. My opinion of the man is not affected by them, at least not negatively. To me it seems he is very much in tune with his own emotions but also perfectly in control of them. He always is, and always has been, and has had to be, given all the shit he's had to endure being the first black president. He's a man, and a man's man, and a father, and of course he tears up thinking about the slaughter of children. Who wouldn't, except a monster,  or someone so out of touch with the emotions of compassion or grief that they hide it with apathy, indifference, dark humor, numbness, obsession, ideology or addiction?

Funny you should ask that, because Andrea Tantaros, one of Fox's most reliable purveyors of vile and ignorant pandering statements, said Obama had concealed an onion at the podium to create the tears.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264872-fox-news-host-obama-used-raw-onion-to-cry

I imagine her soul is so empty and desolate from the shit-stirring nature of her livelihood that she can't actually empathize with someone crying over a couple dozen dead children.

[zelticgar]

Funny you should ask that, because Andrea Tantaros, one of Fox's most reliable purveyors of vile and ignorant pandering statements, said Obama had concealed an onion at the podium to create the tears.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264872-fox-news-host-obama-used-raw-onion-to-cry

I imagine her soul is so empty and desolate from the shit-stirring nature of her livelihood that she can't actually empathize with someone crying over a couple dozen dead children.

She's pretty hot though.  You should cut her some slack.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Funny you should ask that, because Andrea Tantaros, one of Fox's most reliable purveyors of vile and ignorant pandering statements, said Obama had concealed an onion at the podium to create the tears.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/264872-fox-news-host-obama-used-raw-onion-to-cry

I imagine her soul is so empty and desolate from the shit-stirring nature of her livelihood that she can't actually empathize with someone crying over a couple dozen dead children.

I mean... you don't really believe that's what she actually claims, do you? Because it is pretty clear from the context of her statement that she was making a joke. She thinks Obama is insincere and said, jokingly, "I would check that podium for like a raw onion or some no-more-tears." Obviously, she's not claiming that Obama squirted baby shampoo in his eye, either. It's a joke. Unfortunately, it's kind of a stupid joke since "no more tears" shampoo is specifically formulated to NOT make you cry (hence the tag line - no more tears). But notwithstanding that, it's a joke, if a bad one, and it was received as such by everyone on the panel, who laughed at it. 

 

 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Obama's tears strike me as genuine. My opinion of the man is not affected by them, at least not negatively. To me it seems he is very much in tune with his own emotions but also perfectly in control of them. He always is, and always has been, and has had to be, given all the shit he's had to endure being the first black president. He's a man, and a man's man, and a father, and of course he tears up thinking about the slaughter of children. Who wouldn't, except a monster,  or someone so out of touch with the emotions of compassion or grief that they hide it with apathy, indifference, dark humor, numbness, obsession, ideology or addiction?

Just out of curiosity - what exactly is a "man's man" and what, specifically, is the evidence that Obama is one? I am truly, genuinely curious about what you mean by this. 

[Wise Fool]

Just out of curiosity - what exactly is a "man's man" and what, specifically, is the evidence that Obama is one? I am truly, genuinely curious about what you mean by this. 

I mean the type of man that is comfortable with other men and that other men feel comfortable around, that's all. Nothing more. I guess some cultures view this phenomenon differently. Jersey Shore types call it being a bro. It refers to a certain level of social, sexual, spiritual and intellectual maturity and mastery.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

I mean the type of man that is comfortable with other men and that other men feel comfortable around, that's all. Nothing more. I guess some cultures view this phenomenon differently. Jersey Shore types call it being a bro. It refers to a certain level of social, sexual, spiritual and intellectual maturity and mastery.

Lol. Upon what do you base the conclusion that Obama is "comfortable with other men" and that "other men feel comfortable around" him? What actual evidence do you have to confirm Obama's level of sexual mastery? 

This is completely absurd. 

[Wise Fool]

Lol. Upon what do you base the conclusion that Obama is "comfortable with other men" and that "other men feel comfortable around" him? What actual evidence do you have to confirm Obama's level of sexual mastery? 

This is completely absurd. 

It means I get in touch with more aspects of my self than with some acerbic, angry little lawyer role. You however, do not, and so you are left perpetually confused. You probably think cynically about Obama's tears during the speech. The reason is because the idea of a man crying makes you feel uncomfortable.