Jojen Paste

[dRagonese]

On my re-read yesterday i came across the bran chapter when he gobbles down the paste. Aside from all the blood sacrifice references in the chapter and the way he describes the way the paste looks and tastes the main reason i now am much more certain is the way Meera was acting minutes before the paste came to Bran. She is seen talking of how Jojen does not want to change his role and Meera describes him as being stupid witch is strange because she always has his back and was 100% behind every dream of idea he has, then Bran says he is being brave and thats when she bursts into tears and says something to the effect of her never going home again. 2 reasons this is odd, First when she says " He wants to go home, he will not even try and fight his fate. He says the green dreams do not lie." Now taken word for word one may believe that he just wants to go back to the North to his fathers moving castle. Not the case, Home is this context is death/heaven, because just a few seconds later she is burst into tears. Second up to this point all Meera has been is a rock, the total embodiment of the Cranoggs and their strong stoic outdoorsy personality now something Jojen did or said took her past her breaking point. All this plus the blood sacrifice references and the paste being described as having streaks of blood in it and tasting like blood. It is clear that Meera knew what Jojen had to do and was not happy about it.

[Clegane'sPup]

First let me be clear, I am not a supporter of the Jojen paste theory. That out of the way, what has bothered me about the below quote that was use somewhere upstream, is that Maester Aemon & BR arrive at the Wall, shortly after BR is named LC. So these two Targ’s (yes, I understand BR is a bastard) served together for how many years before BR went missing while ranging?

Okay, now I will get to the part that really, really bugs me. BR says to Bran, “I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”

BR has been watching the Starks for a long time. He saw Eddard born. When Eddard died he was 35 years old(?). Why was BR watching the Starks?  “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”  It’s like BR was watching Starks before Eddard was born. Why was BR watching the Stark’s? What is the connection?

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

[dRagonese]

14 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

First let me be clear, I am not a supporter of the Jojen paste theory. That out of the way, what has bothered me about the below quote that was use somewhere upstream, is that Maester Aemon & BR arrive at the Wall, shortly after BR is named LC. So these two Targ’s (yes, I understand BR is a bastard) served together for how many years before BR went missing while ranging?

Okay, now I will get to the part that really, really bugs me. BR says to Bran, “I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”

BR has been watching the Starks for a long time. He saw Eddard born. When Eddard died he was 35 years old(?). Why was BR watching the Starks?  “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”  It’s like BR was watching Starks before Eddard was born. Why was BR watching the Stark’s? What is the connection?

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

IMO witch clearly is an awesome opinion, i just see this as a way of saying he can see way into the past and checked in at the Winterfell heart tree on many occasions. It does not necessarily mean that he was watching the birth of Eddard for the specific reason of just spying on the starks. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

35 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

First let me be clear, I am not a supporter of the Jojen paste theory. That out of the way, what has bothered me about the below quote that was use somewhere upstream, is that Maester Aemon & BR arrive at the Wall, shortly after BR is named LC. So these two Targ’s (yes, I understand BR is a bastard) served together for how many years before BR went missing while ranging?

Okay, now I will get to the part that really, really bugs me. BR says to Bran, “I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”

BR has been watching the Starks for a long time. He saw Eddard born. When Eddard died he was 35 years old(?). Why was BR watching the Starks?  “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”  It’s like BR was watching Starks before Eddard was born. Why was BR watching the Stark’s? What is the connection?

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

Great point,

we know that BR can see back in time through the eyes of the trees, so seeing Ned born isn't so odd in itself... But together with the rest of the quote it begs some questions... I think are best worked brought in reverse...

the hour is late for who? Mankind? Or BloodRaven himself?

does he mean first dream ever or first green dream? (Presumably the falling dream)

He watched Bran since birth and watched Ned... So was he waiting for Bran specifically, or an opportunity to get a Stark to him? In other words, did he know Bran would come, or did he plot so that Bran would end up there?

And of course why is he confused about the crow reference and thinks Bran means the Nights Watch? And why would an ex-lord commander and presumably still a brother of the watch say "black of blood"?  That is an expression that usually has a very heavily negative connotation.

Finally, he is called the pale lord... Like the pale wormlike root coming out of his eye socket... Or the pale wormlike creature that Pryat Pree crumbles into during the HotU chapter... Or the pale Others... Just try asearchoficeandfire.com with "pale" and worm, wormlike, moth, and such. Just saying it starts getting creepy and I'll leave this quote from a Tyrion Winds chapter:

"War. On either side of us and not a league away. That's slaughter, Penny. That's men stumbling through the mud with their entrails hanging out. That's severed limbs and broken bones and pools of blood. You know how the worms come out after a hard rain? I hear they do the same after a big battle if enough blood soaks into the ground. That's the Stranger coming, Penny. The Black Goat, the PaleChild, Him of Many Faces, call him what you will. That's death."

[Curled Finger]

Can't quote again, hope you will see this, LiveFirstDieLater!   

The fact that Bran set out to say goodbye but only after seeing his pony is one of those things that made sense the first time I read the story, because it's just a kid getting scared of leaving home... But on a reread it stuck out at me. The fear/tears seem a little out of character, but maybe it's just because I know how the decision turned out... I mean Summer sat there howling as if it knew what was going to happen, so I have to think that if Bloodraven is really watching the whole time he could have warned Bran. So did BR want Bran to become broken? Did he just watch or did he take steps to set up the right circumstances? Even if one argues that it would be for the "greater good" it would seem somewhere between suspicious and down right evil, at least to me...

Next up, I mentioned the heart tree being described (as always scaring Bran) before Bran climbs and it appearing again looking at him in the dream because the first objection I've run into before with this is that BR does say he has watched over Bran since he was born and has come to him in dreams... The first time I read the series I assumed this meant as the 3eC, but now I am highly doubtful... The tree (and crows living in the old tower) have been there since before Bran, and the Tree even looks at him in the dream.

To be clear, I don't think "time travel" is really the right way to describe what I'm saying... It's more like that "greenseer" part of Bran giving him extra insight because of the collective wisdom of generations, wether that includes a future Bran is unclear to me... I'm not totally convinced that he can impact the past as any more than a breeze in the leaves, but who knows if he can appear to his younger self in a dream... The 3eC pecks at his forehead, as if to give him a third eye... And yells at him to forget the Lannisters (or the dream incarnations) and that "it isn't needed now". Bran appears to successfully forgets the details of his fall. This sort of compartmentalization in Bran's mind is where this idea came to me. I think Bran hasn't come to recognize himself as the 3eC and this probably contributes to why things like taking control of Hodor don't strike Bran as immoral... When they should! The fact that BloodRaven seemingly doesn't respect any of the standard rules about shapeshifting, or guest right is a huge red flag.

Finally, the similarities between BR hollow hill and the House of the Undying are incredible... And this is like a red flag but bigger and bloodier 

Dammit on the quote feature anyway.   I bolded the parts of your quote that struck me.  I'll reread Bran 3 tonight to see if I can find any other unusual things in this chapter at this point in the story.   You point out more than enough to sway me into believing certainly something untoward was amiss at the time of Bran's departure.    All I've got off the top of my head was Cat's vehement arguments against Ned taking her special boy so far away.   This is very curious in a most esoteric way.  Let me pose this since it is a Jojen Paste topic, would Bran actually require any enhancements such as weirwood paste to "open" his abilities?   Meera of Tarth made a comment that also got me to wondering if this paste wasn't a sort of bewitchment or selective vision inducement.    What about that?    I'll try to quote again in a less confused manner with the quotes and all. 

[LiveFirstDieLater]

4 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Can't quote again, hope you will see this, LiveFirstDieLater!   

The fact that Bran set out to say goodbye but only after seeing his pony is one of those things that made sense the first time I read the story, because it's just a kid getting scared of leaving home... But on a reread it stuck out at me. The fear/tears seem a little out of character, but maybe it's just because I know how the decision turned out... I mean Summer sat there howling as if it knew what was going to happen, so I have to think that if Bloodraven is really watching the whole time he could have warned Bran. So did BR want Bran to become broken? Did he just watch or did he take steps to set up the right circumstances? Even if one argues that it would be for the "greater good" it would seem somewhere between suspicious and down right evil, at least to me...

Next up, I mentioned the heart tree being described (as always scaring Bran) before Bran climbs and it appearing again looking at him in the dream because the first objection I've run into before with this is that BR does say he has watched over Bran since he was born and has come to him in dreams... The first time I read the series I assumed this meant as the 3eC, but now I am highly doubtful... The tree (and crows living in the old tower) have been there since before Bran, and the Tree even looks at him in the dream.

To be clear, I don't think "time travel" is really the right way to describe what I'm saying... It's more like that "greenseer" part of Bran giving him extra insight because of the collective wisdom of generations, wether that includes a future Bran is unclear to me... I'm not totally convinced that he can impact the past as any more than a breeze in the leaves, but who knows if he can appear to his younger self in a dream... The 3eC pecks at his forehead, as if to give him a third eye... And yells at him to forget the Lannisters (or the dream incarnations) and that "it isn't needed now". Bran appears to successfully forgets the details of his fall. This sort of compartmentalization in Bran's mind is where this idea came to me. I think Bran hasn't come to recognize himself as the 3eC and this probably contributes to why things like taking control of Hodor don't strike Bran as immoral... When they should! The fact that BloodRaven seemingly doesn't respect any of the standard rules about shapeshifting, or guest right is a huge red flag.

Finally, the similarities between BR hollow hill and the House of the Undying are incredible... And this is like a red flag but bigger and bloodier 

Haha I see it, but despite the fact that you said you can't quote, it looks like a selectivly bolded quote of what I posted up thread... So I'm confused!

[Curled Finger]

26 minutes ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Haha I see it, but despite the fact that you said you can't quote, it looks like a selectivly bolded quote of what I posted up thread... So I'm confused!

Try again I edited it to include my statements and questions at the bottom--so much to talk about.   

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

First let me be clear, I am not a supporter of the Jojen paste theory. That out of the way, what has bothered me about the below quote that was use somewhere upstream, is that Maester Aemon & BR arrive at the Wall, shortly after BR is named LC. So these two Targ’s (yes, I understand BR is a bastard) served together for how many years before BR went missing while ranging?

Okay, now I will get to the part that really, really bugs me. BR says to Bran, “I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”

BR has been watching the Starks for a long time. He saw Eddard born. When Eddard died he was 35 years old(?). Why was BR watching the Starks?  “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”  It’s like BR was watching Starks before Eddard was born. Why was BR watching the Stark’s? What is the connection?

"A … crow?" The pale lord's voice was dry. His lips moved slowly, as if they had forgotten how to form words. "Once, aye. Black of garb and black of blood." The clothes he wore were rotten and faded, spotted with moss and eaten through with worms, but once they had been black. "I have been many things, Bran. Now I am as you see me, and now you will understand why I could not come to you … except in dreams. I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last, Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

Clegane's Pup, I was rereading your comments a couple of times in an effort to put my finger on what was bugging me.   I think I found it.  BR tells Bran he watched all these things, not that he was actively participating or causing any of them.  "I was watching when you fell"--odd that.   Seems to me that if all the BR theories that abound are correct BR would have said something more along the lines of "I was there when.." right? Thanks for bringing that quote into it.   

[Clegane'sPup]

38 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Clegane's Pup, I was rereading your comments a couple of times in an effort to put my finger on what was bugging me.   I think I found it.  BR tells Bran he watched all these things, not that he was actively participating or causing any of them.  "I was watching when you fell"--odd that.   Seems to me that if all the BR theories that abound are correct BR would have said something more along the lines of "I was there when.." right? Thanks for bringing that quote into it.   

Correct, I agree, BR watched. Means that BR has been in his cave for at least 35 years, give or take if "I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”  It is a stretch, but think about it. It is just sumthin' that has nagged at me for a while.

[Curled Finger]

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Correct, I agree, BR watched. Means that BR has been in his cave for at least 35 years, give or take if "I saw your birth, and that of your lord father before you.”  It is a stretch, but think about it. It is just sumthin' that has nagged at me for a while.

Well, all I can say is watchers don't actually affect anything.  Maybe we're all wrong about his powers?   What if it was all in the title from the get go--Greenseers, a title which fits this watchers only thing quite well I might add.  They watch and upload all their visions into the great nexus (weirwood trees) where it is stored for something.  Certainly having a greenseer note your birth and that of your father would be a big deal.  Having puzzled this out I ask you what the information storage is for?   Bran is not a greenseer, he's something else--the thing for which all this information has been gathered and memories have been stored.   Where the heck are the Green Men with some answers?

In the tree at least 35 years.    I ran a quick check of the time line references where it is confirmed that BR is sent to the Wall 67 years prior to current events.  In that we don't know when BR was elected LC or when he disappeared, 35 years is about as safe a guess as can be fielded.   You would think figuring all this out would get easier after all this time...

[Clegane'sPup]

Let’s see if I can weave my thoughts together into a coherent story. Not original thoughts. Not theory, just ideas. I’m pretty sure someone who has posted on these boards throughout the past years has expressed similar thoughts.

Using info I gleaned from wiki, Maester Aemon & Brynden Rivers (a.k.a Bloodraven) were sent to the Wall in 233.  BR was elected Lord Commander in 239. BR disappeared 252. BR was born 175, so when he went missing he was approximately 77.

In the five novels Bloodraven is mentioned three times. Not much info. There was info about him in the three short stories about Dunk & Egg. (which I checked out from the library before the new book was released).  The three eyed crow is mentioned thirty times in the novels. I was very happy when a fellow poster shared the A Search of Fire and Ice site. Makes it easy for me to check things I am curious about. Enough rhetoric. Back to my nagging question about Bloodraven and the Starks.

I the reader do not know how or why Bloodraven ended up in the cave. All I really know is that at the end of DwD he is approximately 125 years old and he has been waiting for Bran for a long time. If BR saw Eddard born, he also saw Brandon, Lyanna & Benjen born. Evidently none of that brood had what BR was looking (watching) for.  Using his weirwood network BR surely must have seen all of Lord Eddard’s children born. Bloodraven says as much, “I saw your [Bran] birth, and that of your lord father [Eddard] before you.”

Bran is the one BR has been waiting for, “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.” It appears to me that BR has specifically been waiting, watching and looking for a Stark to meet the requirements. Is that because Starks have the blood of the First Men, were Kings of the North, and worship the old gods? Why would a Targ bastard spend so much time waiting/looking/watching for a Stark to produce “Only one man in a thousand is born a skinchanger,” Lord Brynden said one day, after Bran had learned to fly, “and only one skinchanger in a thousand can be a greenseer.”

Surely, if BR saw Eddard born, BR, with his 1000 and one eyes would pay some attention to his distant Targ relatives…Aerys, Rhaegar , Rhaenys, Aegon, Viserys or Daenerys. I’m not much on Targ history so I don’t really know who is of the red on black or the black on red banner.

Bran is a warg, skinchanger and a greenseer. Jojen says to Bran, “The greenseers were more than that. They were wargs as well, as you are, and the greatest of them could wear the skins of any beast that flies or swims or crawls, and could look through the eyes of the weirwoods as well, and see the truth that lies beneath the world.” SoS Bran I

Part of why I don't believe the Jojen paste theory is in spoiler to save space.

 

Spoiler

"For the next step. For you to go beyond skinchanging and learn what it means to be a greenseer."

"The trees will teach him," said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowylocks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. "You must eat of this," said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon. DwD Bran III

"A paste of weirwood seeds."

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated. "Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Leaf touched his hand. "The trees will teach you. The trees remember." He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one. The darkness thickened and crept toward them.

"Close your eyes," said the three-eyed crow. "Slip your skin, as you do when you join with Summer. But this time, go into the roots instead. Follow them up through the earth, to the trees upon the hill, and tell me what you see."

Bran closed his eyes and slipped free of his skin. Into the roots, he thought. Into the weirwood. Become the tree. DwD Bran III

Keep in mind Bran III in GoT there is a coma dream:  Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Now you know, the crow whispered as it sat on his shoulder. Now you know why you must live.

My musing are not about proving or disproving anything.  Since the conversation has veered away from Jojen paste hopefully someone will pick out something they agree or disagree with and carry on a conversation in another thread.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

We meet the ghost of High Heart here. . .

The next day they rode to a place called High Heart, a hill so lofty that from atop it Arya felt as though she could see half the world. Around its brow stood a ring of huge pale stumps, all that remained of a circle of once-mighty weirwoods. Arya and Gendry walked around the hill to count them. There were thirty-one, some so wide that she could have used them for a bed.

. . .

Beside the embers of their campfire, she saw Tom, Lem, and Greenbeard talking to a tiny little woman, a foot shorter than Arya and older than Old Nan, all stooped and wrinkled and leaning on a gnarled black cane. Her white hair was so long it came almost to the ground. When the wind gusted it blew about her head in a fine cloud. Her flesh was whiter, the color of milk, and it seemed to Arya that her eyes were red, though it was hard to tell from the bushes. "The old gods stir and will not let me sleep," she heard the woman say. "I dreamt I saw a shadow with a burning heart butchering a golden stag, aye. I dreamt of a man without a face, waiting on a bridge that swayed and swung. On his shoulder perched a drowned crow with seaweed hanging from his wings. I dreamt of a roaring river and a woman that was a fish. Dead she drifted, with red tears on her cheeks, but when her eyes did open, oh, I woke from terror. All this I dreamt, and more. Do you have gifts for me, to pay me for my dreams?"

Arya IV, Storm 22

So, the ghost is short, old, and white with red eyes, perhaps an albino. And she has prophetic dreams like Jojen, who we recall has eyes the color of moss. (Bran III, Clash 21) And she lives on, near, or under a hill crowned with weirwood stumps. Later, through Jaime, we learn that weirwood never rots, (Jaime, Dance) and that their magical properties apparently survive even after they are cut down (See Jaime VI, Storm 44).

Then we meet Bloodraven, the last greenseer. . .

Before them a pale lord in ebon finery sat dreaming in a tangled nest of roots, a woven weirwood throne that embraced his withered limbs as a mother does a child.

His body was so skeletal and his clothes so rotted that at first Bran took him for another corpse, a dead man propped up so long that the roots had grown over him, under him, and through him. What skin the corpse lord showed was white, save for a bloody blotch that crept up his neck onto his cheek. His white hair was fine and thin as root hair and long enough to brush against the earthen floor. Roots coiled around his legs like wooden serpents. One burrowed through his breeches into the desiccated flesh of his thigh, to emerge again from his shoulder. A spray of dark red leaves sprouted from his skull, and grey mushrooms spotted his brow. A little skin remained, stretched across his face, tight and hard as white leather, but even that was fraying, and here and there the brown and yellow bone beneath was poking through.

"Are you the three-eyed crow?" Bran heard himself say. A three-eyed crow should have three eyes. He has only one, and that one red. Bran could feel the eye staring at him, shining like a pool of blood in the torchlight. Where his other eye should have been, a thin white root grew from an empty socket, down his cheek, and into his neck.

Bran II, Dance 13

So, greenseers sit in tangled nests of weirwood roots from which they receive nourishments. And Bloodraven, like the ghost is a small albino with a red eye.

"In a sense. Those you call the children of the forest have eyes as golden as the sun, but once in a great while one is born amongst them with eyes as red as blood, or green as the moss on a tree in the heart of the forest. By these signs do the gods mark those they have chosen to receive the gift. The chosen ones are not robust, and their quick years upon the earth are few, for every song must have its balance. But once inside the wood they linger long indeed. A thousand eyes, a hundred skins, wisdom deep as the roots of ancient trees. Greenseers. "

Bran III, Dance 34

And now we see that greenseers are marked by red or moss-colored eyes, although Jojen insisted he was not a greenseer, but merely possessed of the greensight (Bran I, Storm 9). But it seems likely that the difference between a greenseer and a person with the greensight is more a matter of degree, rather than a different category entirely. We are told greenseers are not robust, and we know that neither Bloodraven, the ghost, and Jojen are robust.

Now here’s what piqued my interest. . .  The ghost is old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers don’t live long until they join with the wood. So, the ghost of High Heart must have herself a little weirwood nest under the hill, eh?

And consider this. . .

"The trees will teach him," said Leaf. She beckoned, and another of the singers padded forward, the white-haired one that Meera had named Snowy locks. She had a weirwood bowl in her hands, carved with a dozen faces, like the ones the heart trees wore. Inside was a white paste, thick and heavy, with dark red veins running through it. "You must eat of this," said Leaf. She handed Bran a wooden spoon.

The boy looked at the bowl uncertainly. "What is it?"

"A paste of weirwood seeds."

Something about the look of it made Bran feel ill. The red veins were only weirwood sap, he supposed, but in the torchlight they looked remarkably like blood. He dipped the spoon into the paste, then hesitated.

"Will this make me a greenseer?"

"Your blood makes you a greenseer," said Lord Brynden. "This will help awaken your gifts and wed you to the trees."

Bran III, Dance 34

So, whom do you suppose was sacrificed for the ghost of High Heart?

[LiveFirstDieLater]

Well one eats the weirwood paste right?

"You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

How about this question, we hear lead say it is made from Weirwood seeds... What kind of seeds does a weirwood have? Fruit? Pods? 

I would propose, somewhat wildly, that human sacrifice is in fact the "seed" of a weirwood, and binds the bloodline to the tree... Much like the sacrifice witnessed by Bran...

After all, if the trees are the old gods, and the old gods are your ancestors, aren't you a sort of weirwood seed?

[Meera of Tarth]

2 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Well one eats the weirwood paste right?

"You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

How about this question, we hear lead say it is made from Weirwood seeds... What kind of seeds does a weirwood have? Fruit? Pods? 

I would propose, somewhat wildly, that human sacrifice is in fact the "seed" of a weirwood, and binds the bloodline to the tree... Much like the sacrifice witnessed by Bran...

After all, if the trees are the old gods, and the old gods are your ancestors, aren't you a sort of weirwood seed?

 

Wow that's so creepy....but interesting too!!

[Curled Finger]

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

We meet the ghost of High Heart here. . .Arya IV, Storm 22

So, the ghost is short, old, and white with red eyes, perhaps an albino. And she has prophetic dreams like Jojen, who we recall has eyes the color of moss. (Bran III, Clash 21) And she lives on, near, or under a hill crowned with weirwood stumps. Later, through Jaime, we learn that weirwood never rots, (Jaime, Dance) and that their magical properties apparently survive even after they are cut down (See Jaime VI, Storm 44).

Then we meet Bloodraven, the last greenseer. . .Bran II, Dance 13

So, greenseers sit in tangled nests of weirwood roots from which they receive nourishments. And Bloodraven, like the ghost is a small albino with a red eye.

Bran III, Dance 34

And now we see that greenseers are marked by red or moss-colored eyes, although Jojen insisted he was not a greenseer, but merely possessed of the greensight (Bran I, Storm 9). But it seems likely that the difference between a greenseer and a person with the greensight is more a matter of degree, rather than a different category entirely. We are told greenseers are not robust, and we know that neither Bloodraven, the ghost, and Jojen are robust.

Now here’s what piqued my interest. . .  The ghost is old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers don’t live long until they join with the wood. So, the ghost of High Heart must have herself a little weirwood nest under the hill, eh?

And consider this. . .Bran III, Dance 34

So, whom do you suppose was sacrificed for the ghost of High Heart?

Do you think we can take this Red or Green eyes to the bank?   Mel's got red eyes and appears to have some ability to see current and future events in the flames of her fires?  The Lannisters have emerald green eyes, so the shade must matter.   There seem to be no discernment between those with the Red eyes.  I just searched for "green moss" in hopes of finding another similarly colored set of eyes, but Jojen has the only eyes described as green moss.    I got more hits than would load when searching "red eyes".   Mel could be a real player in all this after all.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Do you think we can take this Red or Green eyes to the bank?   Mel's got red eyes and appears to have some ability to see current and future events in the flames of her fires?  The Lannisters have emerald green eyes, so the shade must matter.   There seem to be no discernment between those with the Red eyes.  I just searched for "green moss" in hopes of finding another similarly colored set of eyes, but Jojen has the only eyes described as green moss.    I got more hits than would load when searching "red eyes".   Mel could be a real player in all this after all.

The difference is Melisandre wears a glamor so we don't really no what color her eyes really are. She’s old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers are not robust and live short lives unless they enter the weirwood. 

[The Fattest Leech]

Not sure if this has ever been discussed, so my pardons if it has and is already established. 

I tend to think the Weirwood is an Elm tree, not maple or oak like I have seen mentioned. I have come across this info in the past when doing research for my own projects:

http://www.unfading.net/elm.html There are lots and lots of goodies in this link, but I'm on my iPad and copy-pasting is a pain in the ass. Please have a look at your leisure, though. 

The CotF are thought to be inspired by Native Americans. We have this description that explains the many uses of the elm just like we have the many uses of the Weirwood: However, elms will never become extinct because they produce thousands of seeds each year. Elms can live to be over 300 years old, however, it is rare to see a tree over 100 years old today. Elm wood is strong and it was once used to make ship decks and wagon wheels. Elm is used today for making furniture. Also, the inner roots were used by Native American tribes to treat coughs and colds. 

>>>Also a question, something I asked in the past and wanted to ask again. Is the magic that is within a Weirwood still "active" when the Weirwood has been cut and used as something else like Ned Starks bed, Val's Weirwood brooch, Morna's mask, the doors to House of B&W, etc? 

Forgot to mention, yes, elm trees do have seeds. 

[The Fattest Leech]

12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

The difference is Melisandre wears a glamor so we don't really no what color her eyes really are. She’s old, and Bloodraven tells us that greenseers are not robust and live short lives unless they enter the weirwood. 

The thing here is eating posts apparently???

I don't know that Jojen having green eyes in this case really means anything. Meera also has green eyes. The Starks all have grey eyes of varying shades. 

Ill need a little more to really see a link between green eyes and greensight. 

[The Fattest Leech]

5 hours ago, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Well one eats the weirwood paste right?

"You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!"

How about this question, we hear lead say it is made from Weirwood seeds... What kind of seeds does a weirwood have? Fruit? Pods? 

I would propose, somewhat wildly, that human sacrifice is in fact the "seed" of a weirwood, and binds the bloodline to the tree... Much like the sacrifice witnessed by Bran...

After all, if the trees are the old gods, and the old gods are your ancestors, aren't you a sort of weirwood seed?

YES! I love it. It's this kind of writing that George does that makes you realize you have to read between the lines and not take everything literally. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

58 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

The thing here is eating posts apparently???

I don't know that Jojen having green eyes in this case really means anything. Meera also has green eyes. The Starks all have grey eyes of varying shades. 

Ill need a little more to really see a link between green eyes and greensight. 

But Jojen had moss colored eyes, not just green eyes.