[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Reprecussions - Season 6, Tally-Ho

[Le Cygne]

Why didn't Ghost come out with Jon? Is he just going to be a fluffy pet Rover for the rest of the series? If so, why include him at all? Or why not just make him a dog called Rover. Save time and money.

And confusion. Why can Bran do the eyes rolled back thing with his direwolf, but not Jon? Why could Orell, a dead minor character do it, but not Jon? They took the time for him, but not Jon. Why not Arya? 

And if Ghost is going to be more, why not establish his importance, in this, the last full season of the show? Why did Jon walk off, in a dramatic exit, entering a new phase of existence, without him?

And that's not even getting into how much better it would have been to watch Arya "training" (aka senseless brutality over and over and over again then submission) if she did the eyes rolled back thing. Because she has one of those direwolves, too.

Seemed like she was important to her. But she completely forgot she exists. Just like Sansa forgot Lady. Get her a dog, she'll be happier for it, when Lady died. And then the Hound replaced Lady. And then... nothing.

Nothing is just nothing is not a story.

[OldGimletEye]

8 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Nothing is just nothing is not a story.

I watched GOT and saw nothing. 

There wasn't anything there. Nothing is just nothing.

[Tijgy]

Is Carol not getting darker now? With her little birds everywhere? Still not so dark as Larry who wants to destroy the HS as a melon or whatever he said?

 

[Le Cygne]

16 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I just wanted to second this. Carol is a really good mom! Like, seriously, she is! I mean that! No really, she's a good mom! No kiddin.

Everything she does, she does it for her carefully planned incest treason political pawn doomed to die babies.

[OldGimletEye]

dp

[Le Cygne]

3 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Is Carol not getting darker now? With her little birds everywhere? Still not so dark as Larry who wants to destroy the HS as a melon or whatever he said?

They are happy little birds. The Candy Man gave them candy! Let them eat cake! 

[Ser Gareth]

Dany doesn't look like she's getting to Westeros soon.  They need to slash out the junk from the book and get her there ASAP otherwise the show is going to become just as slow and meandering as the books.

[Le Cygne]

And now for the good stuff... newish TWOW chapter up...

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

[kissdbyfire]

Well, even the High Sparrow is praising Carol as the best mother ever! LOL

On a side note, are we keeping track of the clumsy "foreshadowing"? Like when the fleet burns in Meereen and Tyrion says, 

"She won't be sailing to Westeros anytime soon." 

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

And now for the good stuff... newish TWOW chapter up...

http://www.georgerrmartin.com/excerpt-from-the-winds-of-winter/

Yes! Goes with what he said on NaB:

"You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER? Quite a lot, actually. The sample will give you a taste. For the rest, you will need to wait."

 

[Le Cygne]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

"You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER? Quite a lot, actually. The sample will give you a taste. For the rest, you will need to wait."

Touche, GRRM.

[Ser Gareth]

13 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Yes! Goes with what he said on NaB:

"You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER? Quite a lot, actually. The sample will give you a taste. For the rest, you will need to wait."

 

Another chapter going nowhere.  GRRM and D&D haven't seemed to twig that Dorne is a waste of space and hardly anyone cares about it.  GRRM should do us all a favour and have a meteorite blow it all away so we can just move on.  In answer to GRRM's question?  No George, most people don't want to know, don't really care and just want you to get Dany, Tyrion and Arya back to Westeros so we can get on with the story.

[Ser Quork]

14 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

Another chapter going nowhere.  GRRM and D&D haven't seemed to twig that Dorne is a waste of space and hardly anyone cares about it.  GRRM should do us all a favour and have a meteorite blow it all away so we can just move on.  In answer to GRRM's question?  No George, most people don't want to know, don't really care and just want you to get Dany, Tyrion and Arya back to Westeros so we can get on with the story.

Do you think so?  Check out the discussion thread for that chapter.  The chapter tells us a lot, and plenty of us really do want to know, not about the show's version, but certainly about the book version.

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, Ser Quork said:

Do you think so?  Probably should check out the discussion thread for that chapter.  The chapter tells us a lot, and plenty of us really do want to know, not about the show's version, but certainly about the book version.

Plenty of people on this forum, yes.  But this forum is a miniscule sample size of the fan base.  It's basically the most fanatical fans.  This isn't the audience that D&D are pitching too and in all honest, this isn't the audience GRRM should be trying to placate to either.

Back on topic anyway.  Didn't enjoy the last episode at all.

Biggest bugbear is that Dany and Arya's arcs are going nowhere fast.  They should have had Dany back to Meereen by the end of episode 3 and to Westeros by ep5.  Arya needs to be back in Westeros by the end of the next episode.

I thought the Wall was reasonably well done although I still think the motivations behind killing Jon in the first place are ridiculous considering everyone now knows about the whitewalkers.  Therefore it's obvious that Jon's logic was 100% sound.  At least they killed some more people off to whittle down the cast list.

Sam - didn't need to see the journey.  Didn't need it in the books, don't need it in the show.  Getting to their destination is all that matters.

Meereen - Is as big a mess in the show as it is in the books.  D&D have wasted a great opportunity to cut the whole thing out of the story all together.

Winterfell - I seriously hope Osha & Rickon are killed off as we need to whittle down the loose ends as soon as possible otherwise the who end game is going to be rushed.  Another bugbear of mine (which exists in the books too), still no one cares about the Whitewalkers.  The Umbers must have contacts on the Wall because they find out about the Wildlings.  And yet no one gives a toss about the Whitewalkers.  Ridiculous.  Always wondered why Shaggydog was given such a ridiculous name and surely it's too obvious a link to a shaggy dog story?  Are the Umbers really with Bolton or is it an elaborate plan?  Do we even care anymore?  Just get on with the Others invasion D&D.

Theon - Yeah, he is really going to make it alone back to the Iron Isle's.  Seriously?!

Brienne & Sansa - Sansa is at least in a more interesting place than in the books but I really wish they'd just kill her off as she's as dull in the TV show as the books.  As for angry Brienne?  She was boring in the books.  In the TV show she has zero charisma.  Another one I just wish they'd get rid off ASAP.  She's killed Stannis.  Arc fulfilled.  Get rid.

 

[kissdbyfire]

Did Tommen ever ask the HS about Marg Boleyn?

[kissdbyfire]

Also, I get it, I get that Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss are wrapping it up and moving at "breakneck" speed towards the end. But first, why does it feel so slow and boring and like nothing much is happening? Second, I'm not a fan of ASoIaF because I want to know the big plot points, I love the story, the journey! Where's the journey? There's no story on GoT. 

[OldGimletEye]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Also, I get it, I get that Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss are wrapping it up and moving at "breakneck" speed towards the end. But first, why does it feel so slow and boring and like nothing much is happening? Second, I'm not a fan of ASoIaF because I want to know the big plot points, I love the story, the journey! Where's the journey? There's no story on GoT. 

You know, sometimes I have like these really, really, random and crazy old thoughts. I mean like they just  come out of nowhere. Like just out of the blue.

Maybe, I'm nuttier than a fruitcake, but, the thought of the day is:

A story is not like a sprint or a foot race. The point isn't about getting to the end as quickly as possible, necessarily.
The point is to be entertained. The point is to enjoy and savor the story. The point is to be engaged. It isn't about just getting to the ending as quickly as possible. So, it's kind of a bit of nonsense to say, "Well the characters will end up (generally kinda of sorta) in the same place, so like what's the diff?"
And usually, a story is more entertaining if shit doesn't just randomly happen for like no good reason or explanation. Maybe it's just me, but I put more of a premium on good and logical story development than stuff just coming out of nowhere for the sake of "shock".
Like for some reason, I can watch Lawrence of Arabia, which is like a 4 hour film, and enjoy it, but for some reason wouldn't want to watch Never Say Never which is less than 2 hours.
That's the crazy old thought of the day.
 

[Ser Gareth]

2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Also, I get it, I get that Mr Benioff and Mr Weiss are wrapping it up and moving at "breakneck" speed towards the end. But first, why does it feel so slow and boring and like nothing much is happening? Second, I'm not a fan of ASoIaF because I want to know the big plot points, I love the story, the journey! Where's the journey? There's no story on GoT. 

Because it's still partly based on AFFC & ADWD which were slow and boring.  And I have no doubt the early chapters (probably the entire book) of TWOW will also be slow and boring (even the Tyrion chapters where he is in the start of a battle are dull as dishwater).  I cannot believe that D&D haven't read AFFC & ADWD and realised how badly they would translate to TV, especially as half the stories in them only started in them and don't have a resolution in the book yet.

[kissdbyfire]

1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said:

You know, sometimes I have like these really, really, random and crazy old thoughts. I mean like they just  come out of nowhere. Like just out of the blue.

Maybe, I'm nuttier than a fruitcake, but, the thought of the day is:

A story is not like a sprint or a foot race. The point isn't about getting to the end as quickly as possible, necessarily.
The point is to be entertained. The point is to enjoy and savor the story. The point is to be engaged. It isn't about just getting to the ending as quickly as possible. So, it's kind of a bit of nonsense to say, "Well the characters will end up (generally kinda of sorta) in the same place, so like what's the diff?"
And usually, a story is more entertaining if shit doesn't just randomly happen for like no good reason or explanation. Maybe it's just me, but I put more of a premium on good and logical story development than stuff just coming out of nowhere for the sake of "shock".
Like for some reason, I can watch Lawrence of Arabia, which is like a 4 hour film, and enjoy it, but for some reason wouldn't want to watch Never Say Never which is less than 2 hours.
That's the crazy old thought of the day.
 

Yes, exactly that. And when throw in this mix the weird characterisation, it gets even worse. Because when something does seem to sort of happen, it feels completely off. No journey, no story, just a few "shocks" interspersed with dull and boring filler. 

And even the shocks they love so much are not that shocking anymore. It's all been so overused that it's becoming all too predictable. Yawn.

[Ser Gareth]

6 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

You know, sometimes I have like these really, really, random and crazy old thoughts. I mean like they just  come out of nowhere. Like just out of the blue.

Maybe, I'm nuttier than a fruitcake, but, the thought of the day is:

A story is not like a sprint or a foot race. The point isn't about getting to the end as quickly as possible, necessarily.
The point is to be entertained. The point is to enjoy and savor the story. The point is to be engaged. It isn't about just getting to the ending as quickly as possible. So, it's kind of a bit of nonsense to say, "Well the characters will end up (generally kinda of sorta) in the same place, so like what's the diff?"
And usually, a story is more entertaining if shit doesn't just randomly happen for like no good reason or explanation. Maybe it's just me, but I put more of a premium on good and logical story development than stuff just coming out of nowhere for the sake of "shock".
Like for some reason, I can watch Lawrence of Arabia, which is like a 4 hour film, and enjoy it, but for some reason wouldn't want to watch Never Say Never which is less than 2 hours.
That's the crazy old thought of the day.
 

But pacing is key.  A beginning, a middle and an end.  The beginning of the TV show and the books was brilliant.  The end of ASOS should've been the end of the middle.  And the end needs to be paced the best of all and should be breakneck in pacing (pacing and length are different things).

The death of any story is one that starts well.  Then slows down to a crawl.  And crawls.  And crawls.  Another death to a good story is when too many takes spring from it too late in the story.  The main characters, the ones the reader/viewer becomes emotionally invested in, should appear very early on in the story.  In rare cases new characters are added (but are usually talked about a lot previously) and it works.  But it's very rare.  Usually a host of new characters equates to a bore fest.

The show, and the books, are in real danger of losing their identity and becoming nothing more than a glorified soap.