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Wow, so the rumours were true. The Umbers are betraying the Starks. The SmallJon who died to save Robb in the books is now giving Rickon to Ramsay. And is the show really implying that the North is not only going to betray the Starks but join  up with a kinslayer? Isnt a kinslaying supposed to be the greatest crime one can commit, right along with breaking guest right. Fuck it.

Overall though happy with the episode. 7.5/10. The story moved forward and no scene was boring. Euron was introduced - dunno why people are complaining about Balon's death. It is exactly how it happened in the books. Loved the flashback scene. Wonder what happens to Hodor. Im guessing something to do with going into Winterfell's crypts lower levels. Or Rhaegar hitting him on the head when running off with Lyanna. 

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3 hours ago, Miley the Monstrous said:

I LOVED this episode so much, from start to finish. 

Not even Kit's hokey face/acting in that resurrection part ruined it for me. 

You know what happens when you die, right? Your brain quits functioning. Not good. Your heart stops pumping blood through the blood vessels of your circulatory system. This is pretty bad, too. Your lungs cease extracting oxygen and removing carbon dioxide, so breathing is a no go;  I could go on and on. Every system in your body ceases to function. What did you expect when he was brought back to life, and all the systems in his body began working at once? Did you expect him to open his eyes, sit up, clothe himself and go on with his day?

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Lyanna wasn't kidnapped. Targaryens seem to have had no problem with brother-sister marriages or polygamy. So no reason rhaegar could not have married her. Especially if his first wife was onboard with the idea. The whole idea that there never was any kidnapping, the entire revolt against the Trgaryens was because Robert was jealous and refused to believe Lyanna wasn't interested in him, is sooooo in keeping with the theme of the whole series about mayhem and disaster  and random death for no good reason.

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3 minutes ago, Caryn Stark said:

Yes. To all of this. 

And also, could someone BESIDES Davos had begged Mel for magic. We set up seasons of Davos hating/being afraid of her magic. And then today he 'magically' oh Mels, can't you do a little hocus pocus for us? That line couldn't have been delivered by anyone else? They just assassinated the character they set up.

I think that was a result of him being at his wits end and not having a purpose anymore, or anyone to follow. I had no trouble believing he'd turn to Mel... my problem with that part was that he was so fixated on resurrecting Jon; there's no particular reason that I can see for him to want that now that they're safe from Thorne and the others.

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1 minute ago, Cunning Villain said:

You know what happens when you die, right? Your brain quits functioning. Not good. Your heart stops pumping blood through the blood vessels of your circulatory system. This is pretty bad, too. Your lungs cease extracting oxygen and removing carbon dioxide, so breathing is a no go;  I could go on and on. Every system in your body ceases to function. What did you expect when he was brought back to life, and all the systems in his body began working at once? Did you expect him to open his eyes, sit up, clothe himself and go on with his day?

I just thought his expression was funny....

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10 minutes ago, Barty said:

Wow, so the rumours were true. The Umbers are betraying the Starks. The SmallJon who died to save Robb in the books is now giving Rickon to Ramsay. And is the show really implying that the North is not only going to betray the Starks but join  up with a kinslayer? Isnt a kinslaying supposed to be the greatest crime one can commit, right along with breaking guest right. Fuck it.

Overall though happy with the episode. 7.5/10. The story moved forward and no scene was boring. Euron was introduced - dunno why people are complaining about Balon's death. It is exactly how it happened in the books.

Did I miss something on the Bolton's scene? Did they mention the Umbers are bringing Rickon in?

And regarding Balon... I agree, probably show only people are yet missing some Ironborn lore to see that the death made sense. Though if I remember correctly, the official version is that he "fell" due to that heavy storm and murder at the hand of one of his brothers was just a suspicion by some characters. Yet Yara/Asha is completely sure he was killed.

Edited by BlackwaterPark

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3 minutes ago, BlackwaterPark said:

Yet Yara/Asha is completely sure he was killed.

In the show, considering we saw Balon have a dagger with him to protect himself and Yara knowing her father so much, it makes sense.

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4 minutes ago, BlackwaterPark said:

Did I miss something on the Bolton's scene? Did they mention the Umbers are bringing Rickon in?

And regarding Balon... I agree, probably show only people are yet missing some Ironborn lore to see that the death made sense. Though if I remember correctly, the official version is that he "fell" due to that heavy storm and murder at the hand of one of his brothers was just a suspicion by some characters. Yet Yara/Asha is completely sure he was killed.

Its in the preview for the next episode. Umbers bring a gift to Ramsay. There are rumours that the gift is Rickon. Which makes sense since in the show Rickon went to the Umbers.

As for Balon - the official reason is he fell. But Euron does turn up the next day to claim the seastone chair. So its almost confirmed Euron had a hand in his death.

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16 minutes ago, sandpiper said:

Lyanna wasn't kidnapped. Targaryens seem to have had no problem with brother-sister marriages or polygamy. So no reason rhaegar could not have married her. Especially if his first wife was onboard with the idea. The whole idea that there never was any kidnapping, the entire revolt against the Trgaryens was because Robert was jealous and refused to believe Lyanna wasn't interested in him, is sooooo in keeping with the theme of the whole series about mayhem and disaster  and random death for no good reason.

the rebellion had a lot more to do with Aerys murdering Rickard and Brandon. 

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2 hours ago, King Onion Knight said:

Like when theres a bad episode, I will shit on it. I know the show has issues, but this was a good episode in my eyes. No point in crying over spilled milk some of the elitist fans are annoying af. 

Word to Big Bird.

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46 minutes ago, Caryn Stark said:

Yes. To all of this. 

And also, could someone BESIDES Davos had begged Mel for magic. We set up seasons of Davos hating/being afraid of her magic. And then today he 'magically' oh Mels, can't you do a little hocus pocus for us? That line couldn't have been delivered by anyone else? They just assassinated the character they set up.

I do think they did Davos dirty. I wish he'd learned of Shireen's death and demanded Melisandre burned herself as a sacrifice this time around. The resurrection felt so underwhelming.

Edited by MotherofStrife

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I dont see much evidence of departure from the books, and never have. Mostly reorganising and some cuts. Possibly if there had been certainty about wanting a longer series from the start there might have been fewer cuts, but that is not how the business works. It is just possible that series 6 will be reinserting material they had thought would be cut, but I think more likely it is just reorganised to make it more presentable in TV series chunks of the size they wanted.

Liked the episode. Startled Roose got the chop quite so quick but entirely in character for Ramsey who has had 9 months to think about what he would do. Ramsey might even understand it harms the chances of his house winning by killing his father, but he is well past caring. What we do have is exactly what has been touted, one Bastard leading the good side and another leading the bad side. Any more bastards around who might join the fight? 

Who else is going to join in?  Presumably littlefinger will be trying to bring in an army at the last possible moment. The Freys are likely going to be a tiny bit upset. The Lannisters...will presumably not be happy Ramsey has taken over, but will it be in their interest to support or reject him? The Iron Islanders....will they still fancy their chances of some spoils when the infighting is over?

 

 

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I'm definitely pro book over show. But the pettiness I've read in some of these posts is ridiculous. I for one hold out hope that GRRM will finish both Winds & Spring. Thus I hope the show deviates rather far from the books from this point forward because I want the books to be fresh and unspoiled when they do come out. It's clear we'll get a lot of deaths this season because of budget cuts. I'm cool with that if we truly only have roughly a season and a half left after this one. Let's streamline down to the characters that really matter. One nitpick I did agree with though was the color of young Lyanna's hair. She looked to close to the weakest Starks/Tullys (Cat & Sansa) then the "True" Northern Starks Jon, Arya, & Bran. For me this was a damn good episode. The one I waited nearly a year for. And it looks like next week will be just as good. ToJ coming. I'm hyped. 

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17 minutes ago, Barty said:

And is the show really implying that the North is not only going to betray the Starks but join  up with a kinslayer? Isnt a kinslaying supposed to be the greatest crime one can commit, right along with breaking guest right. Fuck it.

Some of the North.

Spoiler

The rumors are that Umber and Karstark fight for the Boltons, Hornwood and Mormont fight for Jon.

 

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The show went to a lot of troubel to spread confusion about  Jon Snow. I think they will try to spread as much confusion as possible about how many series/episodes there will be so as to keep everyone guessing how far into the engame plot they really are.(or arent)

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For example, I definitely don't think Mel will be resurrecting Jon in the books. My money is on Val and Bran bringing him back via the Weirwood tree North of the wall. Maybe even via a blood sacrifice (Mel and or Shireen). Hopefully the show can differ from the books and not come completely off the rails. As long as they leave Dorne out and stop the Tyrion cock jokes, there's hope. 

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To finish that post..it's very late at night, I'm tired, so sorry for typos. Yep, I went "paragraphs" but I was just summarizing concerns, not individual rants.

 

That last sentence should read, "I guess Ramsey and his dogs are more important to the overall plot of Game of Thrones than the Starks and their Direwolves. Just sayin'." They certainly get more screentime each season, and we get to see Ramsey's well-established bonds with them! I dunno...maybe Ramsey's eco-friendly hounds have some big role to play in War of the Dawn? Eating the Wights maybe?

 

I also wanted to make an observation about how the Lannisters are constantly shown in mourning for and grieving for their dead, but I guess the show would have us forget the RW ever happened. We can have a Stark kid saying "I miss my mom/dad/siblings" once in a while?

And a creeping nihilism I find in the show, which is not yet in the books, no matter how dark they get at times...

 

Yes, the Sansa/Theon parting was lovely, I wish they had had more time to reconcile, Dave/Dan were starting to go somewhere last episode with them embracing under that tree, that was a beautiful moment that captured the spirit of ASOIAF, that was one of George's "moments of hope/grace in a poisoned world", give me more of these please, me likey!...but no,  instead more c**k jokes.. hey, we have only 22 more episodes to go thank God, we're sick of being in Belfast and soon we can go HOME! Time to run to the next pit stop then.

 

But this is not the Rant thread, I need to concentrate on the little bits I liked...so:)

Edited by Morna The Maid

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2 hours ago, DJE said:

I think that this was an awesome episode, I have no complaints what so ever. I am able to separate the books and the show, and still enjoy them both. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. I was really worried Tyrion was gonna merge storylines with Quentyn

SO glad that didn't happen. It seemed pretty likely that it was not the case, but still that little bit of doubt remained. Now the question is... how long until those dragons start rampaging across Essos?

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