Lady bonehead Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I'm not wedded to this theory at all (although I like it a thousand times better than A+J=T), it just seems to me that if it were true, we might have to re-evaluate MKA's motivations about certain things. 1. Not wanting Rhaegar to marry Cersei. We know Aerys didn't want to marry his own sister, and it could be he has a prejudice against incestuous marriages in general. 2. Nominating Jaime to the Kingsguard. Sure, Aerys may have had other bastards that he didn't give a damn about, but by this point he would have heard that Jaime was something special, and might have decided that he wanted him by his side and under his control. Note that in both these cases, humiliating Tywin might have been an additional motivation (as if cuckolding him wasn't bad enough). However, here is where it gets sticky. 3. Trusting Jaime unreasonably. The truth is, Jaime was only able to betray Aerys because Aerys never thought he would betray him. The description of events in TWOIAF is highly inconsistent in this regard. We are told that Aerys distrusted Jaime from the beginning and regarded him as a hostage for Tywin's good behavior. But this is only implied, there is no evidence that MKA actually threatened to harm Jaime if Tywin didn't cooperate. Not only that, he actually put him in charge of the defenses of King's Landing, which seems a strange position for a teenage hostage. However, there is a wee problem with this line of thinking: if Jaime was Aerys's son, and Aerys was trying to secure his loyalty, WOULDN'T HE HAVE TOLD HIM? (insert best Darth Vader voice). Actually I don't think we can prove 100% that he didn't, and it would certainly make the basis of an interesting reread, but we are definitely wandering into crackpot territory here…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion92 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I agree that Jaime and Cersei are Targaryen bastards, which makes more sense than Tyrion being Mad King's son (he is Tywin 2.0), but I am not sure Mad King knew about the twins. Remember, he was MAD, so if he truly knew something, I don't think he was sane enough NOT to burst something out to Jaime. But again, what do I know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 i dont understand why people hang on too this theory if it can be called that. TWOIAF disproved this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady bonehead Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: i dont understand why people hang on too this theory if it can be called that. TWOIAF disproved this. It didn't. I don't have the quote but it just made it unlikely, not impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady bonehead Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 46 minutes ago, Cowboy Dan said: why is he so deathly afraid of Rhaegar but completely ignores Jaime as a potential betrayer? Actually, the question of why MKA trusted Jaime so much is a legitimate question to ask regardless of whose son Jaime is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjulibai Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 4 hours ago, Lady bonehead said: It didn't. I don't have the quote but it just made it unlikely, not impossible. I've read and reread all the Targaryen-Lannister passages, and I'm not getting why it would be unlikely or impossible. If anything, there were several passages that made it seem quite possible to me. In any case, one implication I find interesting is that Cersei's valonqar is actually Dany, since valonqar, being Valyrian and non-gendered, could mean little sister. It would certainly square with the younger, more beautiful queen thing. (Though personally, I like the idea that Jaime is the valonqar a lot better.) Another implication is that Joffrey inherited Aerys' madness. They had a lot of similarities, in many ways, and it was said a few times in the book that he could end up worse than Aerys. Makes sense if Joffrey is his grandson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolx Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I like this theory and it's 100x times better than the A+J=T. Quote “We all dream of things we cannot have. Tywin dreamed that his son would be a great knight, that his daughter would be a queen. He dreamed they would be so strong and brave and beautiful that no one would ever laugh at them.” “I am a knight,” he told her, “and Cersei is a queen.” A tear rolled down her cheek. The woman raised her hood again and turned her back on him. I believe Jaime's dream is the best prove for the theory. Why would Joanna put Tywin as an example of someone who didn't get what they desired? The man got what he wanted, power and glory. Another interesting thing is how much Cersei resembles Rhaenyra, both paranoid and hated by the small folk. Both went war against a "green queen", both had bastards. Also it would be cute funny that the evil Targs Robbert hated so much ended up again in the throne thanks to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady bonehead Posted May 10, 2016 Author Share Posted May 10, 2016 22 minutes ago, Kolx said: I believe Jaime's dream is the best prove for the theory. Why would Joanna put Tywin as an example of someone who didn't get what they desired? The man got what he wanted, power and glory. I agree, but I think that this is Jaime's subconscious speaking to him, not his actual dead mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Wraith Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 On 5/9/2016 at 5:08 PM, norwaywolf123 said: i dont understand why people hang on too this theory if it can be called that. TWOIAF disproved this. Did it? I also remember it claiming that Aerys took Joanna's maidenhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 most likely Tywin+Joanna=Jaime&Cersei and Tyrion The reason Tywin says that you are no son of mine to Jaime is that he is dissapointed in him. Tywin gave Jaime everything and Jaime never accepted any of it nor did he try to do his duty. Jaime is a joke. The reason Tywin tells Tyrion is no son of his is becouse he thinks himself to good to sire a monster, a deformed halfman like Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Pao Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 On 5/10/2016 at 9:39 PM, anjulibai said: ... In any case, one implication I find interesting is that Cersei's valonqar is actually Dany, since valonqar, being Valyrian and non-gendered, could mean little sister. It would certainly square with the younger, more beautiful queen thing. (Though personally, I like the idea that Jaime is the valonqar a lot better.) So if we accept the statement that Cersei's valonqar could be a little sister could it not be then Arya?? I would put my money on a faceless man over the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anjulibai Posted May 11, 2016 Share Posted May 11, 2016 8 hours ago, Nymeria Pao said: So if we accept the statement that Cersei's valonqar could be a little sister could it not be then Arya?? I would put my money on a faceless man over the dragons. I suppose whose little sister was not specified. There are several little sisters it could be - Margaery is a little sister, as is Sansa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nymeria Pao Posted May 12, 2016 Share Posted May 12, 2016 21 hours ago, anjulibai said: I suppose whose little sister was not specified. There are several little sisters it could be - Margaery is a little sister, as is Sansa. I guess you are right. I couldn't imagine it being Margaery and Sansa is the big sister of the Stark's. Am thinking it could def be Arya! Thanks for the new thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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