Randyll Tarly at Bitterbridge

[thelittledragonthatcould]

5 hours ago, redtree said:

Renly was already plotting to take over Joff's crown before Robert was dead, before Renly had figured out from Stannis about incest issue. And he did leave KL before Robert passed, a great move to save his neck but not exactly different from Stannis

There is a huge difference, Robert was pretty much dead. His life was not in danger, at least not according to what Renly knew.

14 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

 

And since Alester Florent and his son Alekyne were dispossessed of Brightwater after the Battle of the Blackwater, Dickon Tarly has a potential claim to Brightwater. Alester Florent's eldest daughter is Dickon's mum.

Alekyne was not at the Battle of Blackwater nor was he part of Stannis' armies. He would be the Lord if the Florents still had that land, not his sister or nephew.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

There is a huge difference, Robert was pretty much dead. His life was not in danger, at least not according to what Renly knew.

Alekyne was not at the Battle of Blackwater nor was he part of Stannis' armies. He would be the Lord if the Florents still had that land, not his sister or nephew.

I never said Alekyne was at the Battle of the Blackwater. I said he was dispossessed of Brightwater after the battle. Having been attained by the crown, Brightwater was awarded to Mace's second son. However, Randylls wife was the rightful heir to Brightwater following Alekyne's attainder. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

17 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I never said Alekyne was at the Battle of the Blackwater. I said he was dispossessed of Brightwater after the battle. Having been attained by the crown, Brightwater was awarded to Mace's second son. However, Randylls wife was the rightful heir to Brightwater following Alekyne's attainder. 

Alester Florent and all his heirs were stripped of the lands. Alekyne was in the same situation as his sister as he played no part in Stannis' rebellion either.

Either all Florents are stripped or just Alester and which would still leave his son as his heir.

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 minutes ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Alester Florent and all his heirs were stripped of the lands. Alekyne was in the same situation as his sister as he played no part in Stannis' rebellion either.

Either all Florents are stripped or just Alester and which would still leave his son as his heir.

I seriously doubt that Randyll's wife and son were attainted. The crown simply attainted Alekyne, then stepped in and awarded Brightwater to Mace's second son. When lands, castles and incomes are at stake, men in ASOIAF will press any advantage at their disposal. Consider the Hornwood inheritance, and who Randyll forced to wed his own heir. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I seriously doubt that Randyll's wife and son were attainted. The crown simply attainted Alekyne, then stepped in and awarded Brightwater to Mace's second son. When lands, castles and incomes are at stake, men in ASOIAF will press any advantage at their disposal. Consider the Hornwood inheritance, and who Randyll forced to wed his own heir. 

The crown makes no mention of Alekyne, they stripped it from Alester.

Highgarden reaped the richest harvest. Tyrion eyed Mace Tyrell's broad belly and thought, He has a prodigious appetite, this one. Tyrell demanded the lands and castles of Lord Alester Florent, his own bannerman, who'd had the singular ill judgment to back first Renly and then Stannis. Lord Tywin was pleased to oblige. Brightwater Keep and all its lands and incomes were granted to Lord Tyrell's second son, Ser Garlan, transforming him into a great lord in the blink of an eye. His elder brother, of course, stood to inherit Highgarden itself.

Alekyne and his sisters are in the same boat.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Just now, thelittledragonthatcould said:

The crown makes no mention of Alekyne, they stripped it from Alester.

Highgarden reaped the richest harvest. Tyrion eyed Mace Tyrell's broad belly and thought, He has a prodigious appetite, this one. Tyrell demanded the lands and castles of Lord Alester Florent, his own bannerman, who'd had the singular ill judgment to back first Renly and then Stannis. Lord Tywin was pleased to oblige. Brightwater Keep and all its lands and incomes were granted to Lord Tyrell's second son, Ser Garlan, transforming him into a great lord in the blink of an eye. His elder brother, of course, stood to inherit Highgarden itself.

Alekyne and his sisters are in the same boat.

Assuming House Florent held Brightwater in perpetuity, the estate would have had to have been stripped from it's current possessor, Alekyne. So, unless Alekyne had agreed to give it up to the crown, the crown must have attainted him. 

[thelittledragonthatcould]

Just now, Lost Melnibonean said:

Assuming House Florent held Brightwater in perpetuity, the estate would have had to have been stripped from it's current possessor, Alekyne. So, unless Alekyne had agreed to give it up to the crown, the crown must have attainted him. 

Alester was its current Lord. It is said in the very meeting that he was stripped of his lands.

Alester and his heirs were stripped. Alekyne, who was not part of Stannis' army, would have been the Lord if just Alester and the Florent participants in the war were punished.

 

From Melessa's perspective she would still be behind her brother if all Florents were not stripped.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, thelittledragonthatcould said:

Alester was its current Lord. It is said in the very meeting that he was stripped of his lands.

Alester and his heirs were stripped. Alekyne, who was not part of Stannis' army, would have been the Lord if just Alester and the Florent participants in the war were punished.

 

From Melessa's perspective she would still be behind her brother if all Florents were not stripped.

Ah, yes, Alliser was still alive at the time. You are correct then. 

ETA

Still, I got a golden dragon says Alekyne was attainted. 

[Nittanian]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ah, yes, Alliser was still alive at the time. You are correct then. 

ETA

Still, I got a golden stag says Alekyne was attainted. 

AFFC Appendix:

"The Iron Throne has also named the Florents traitors for their support of Stannis and his rebellion. They were attainted, and Brightwater Keep and its lands were awarded to Ser Garlan Tyrell. "

"ALEKYNE, attainted Lord of Brightwater, fled to Oldtown to seek refuge at the Hightower,"

[Sullen]

9 hours ago, redtree said:

Renly was already plotting to take over Joff's crown before Robert was dead, before Renly had figured out from Stannis about incest issue. And he did leave KL before Robert passed, a great move to save his neck but not exactly different from Stannis

Renly was plotting to install Ned as Joffrey's regent through force while Robert lay dying, you mean.

The plan the crown himself came after he got the hell out of dodge.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Renly's motives are unclear. He wanted Ned to take the king, his siblings, and his mother under arrest while Robert still lived. This doesn't indicate he was keen on being loyal to Joffrey. Kings usually aren't taken under arrest by their own regent, right? This could easily have been Renly's first step in a plan to kill Robert's children and subsequently seize the Iron Throne himself. Sure, Ned wouldn't have gone along with that, but Ned wasn't Renly's friend, either. And he didn't have that many men in the city.

Robert was dying, and Cersei controlling Joffrey was dangerous, as it is proven the very next day after Renly suggests taking control of Joffrey.

There is nothing that supports the assumption that Renly planned to murder all three of his nephews to take the Throne beyond the godawful TV show, all of the explanations given for his behaviour are perfectly sensible and in-line with the character.

[Lost Melnibonean]

24 minutes ago, Nittanian said:

AFFC Appendix:

"The Iron Throne has also named the Florents traitors for their support of Stannis and his rebellion. They were attainted, and Brightwater Keep and its lands were awarded to Ser Garlan Tyrell. "

"ALEKYNE, attainted Lord of Brightwater, fled to Oldtown to seek refuge at the Hightower,"

Ha! Too bad I bet a golden "stag." Otherwise, I mighta collected a dragon. And I would note that Radyll's wife and son, though potential heirs to House Florent, are Tarlys. 

[OuttaOldtown]

19 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 

I'm not saying Mace Tyrell is a genius. I'm just saying he is not necessarily as stupid as he appears. And even if he were - this doesn't mean Tarly is going to betray him. Being the second hand man of a not so smart boss gives you actually a lot of power. And right now Randyll Tarly technically is the second most powerful man in the Realm. He would never get a similar position of power under Aegon because Aegon has to reward his Golden Company allies first. Not to mention that he already has a working provisional government in Jon Connington (Hand), Haldon Halfmaester (maester), and the captains of the Golden Company.

I'm not so sure about this logic. I felt like in the Epilogue of ADwD Tarly was overly-dismissive of fAegon to the point that its a bit suspicious. And btw, who exactly is Haldon? You also left out Varys & Illyrio on his small council, which leads me to the possibility that JonCon will not survive to see the day Aegon is crowned never mind become Hand, his hostility and mistrust of Varys is a clue that the two will never work together & if I had to guess who will come out on top its Varys/Illyrio.. 

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ha! Too bad I bet a golden "stag." Otherwise, I mighta collected a dragon. And I would note that Radyll's wife and son, though potential heirs to House Florent, are Tarlys. 

Well, the chronology would still be that after the Blackwater Lord Alester Florent was attainted and Brightwater and all its lands and incomes granted to Garlan Tyrell. At this time Lord Alester Florent was still alive on Dragonstone, and Alekyne Florent wasn't a (self-styled) lord. He was just his father's heir. Technically you cannot attaint a guy who doesn't own anything in the first place yet.

Therefore the styling of Alekyne Florent in the appendix is actually legally incorrect. Alekyne isn't an attainted lord, he is the son of an attainted lord who might consider himself the rightful Lord of Brightwater. The actual Lord of Brightwater is Garlan Tyrell since ASoS.

3 hours ago, OuttaOldtown said:

I'm not so sure about this logic. I felt like in the Epilogue of ADwD Tarly was overly-dismissive of fAegon to the point that its a bit suspicious. And btw, who exactly is Haldon? You also left out Varys & Illyrio on his small council, which leads me to the possibility that JonCon will not survive to see the day Aegon is crowned never mind become Hand, his hostility and mistrust of Varys is a clue that the two will never work together & if I had to guess who will come out on top its Varys/Illyrio.. 

Mace and Tarly are both dismissive of Jon Connington, his identity, and the threat he poses. In my opinion a better way to interpret this talk is - as I've said repeatedly - that Tarly and Mace both want to put additional pressure on Kevan by making it clear that they won't march against Connington as long as they don't get what they want. Which is Margaery's acquittal. They use the Aegon threat as bargaining chip in their dealings with Kevan because they know that King Tommen is completely dependent on the Tyrell army.

Varys and Illyrio are right now not on Aegon's council. But I admitted and suggested above that either of them is actually a much better candidate to replace Connington as Hand should he die or be dismissed.

[OuttaOldtown]

14 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

]Mace and Tarly are both dismissive of Jon Connington, his identity, and the threat he poses. In my opinion a better way to interpret this talk is - as I've said repeatedly - that Tarly and Mace both want to put additional pressure on Kevan by making it clear that they won't march against Connington as long as they don't get what they want. Which is Margaery's acquittal. They use the Aegon threat as bargaining chip in their dealings with Kevan because they know that King Tommen is completely dependent on the Tyrell army.

Varys and Illyrio are right now not on Aegon's council. But I admitted and suggested above that either of them is actually a much better candidate to replace Connington as Hand should he die or be dismissed.

I don't see it as a better interpretation, just a different one, I believe a sea change coming to the Reach that ill coincide with Aegon's takeover of KL, should it succeed of course. We know Illyrio desires to be master of coin & that Varys will be on the council should Aegon be successful. And I doubt highly that Haldon would be GM considering there's no reason to believe he's anything more than a highly educated man. I don't think Aegon would be in favor of JonCon being dismissed but there's plenty of ways to remove him while leaving Aegon to believe he died a hero, or at the hands of enemies. It's interesting that Haldon is a total mystery, and we have no idea who Varys & Illyrio are as they relate to Aegon..

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, OuttaOldtown said:

I don't see it as a better interpretation, just a different one, I believe a sea change coming to the Reach that ill coincide with Aegon's takeover of KL, should it succeed of course. We know Illyrio desires to be master of coin & that Varys will be on the council should Aegon be successful. And I doubt highly that Haldon would be GM considering there's no reason to believe he's anything more than a highly educated man. I don't think Aegon would be in favor of JonCon being dismissed but there's plenty of ways to remove him while leaving Aegon to believe he died a hero, or at the hands of enemies. It's interesting that Haldon is a total mystery, and we have no idea who Varys & Illyrio are as they relate to Aegon..

The point with Tarly is that it is actually very unlikely that any king would reward such a turncloaking traitor as he obviously would be in a scenario in which he betrays Mace. Aegon will learn that Tarly backed Renly, Joffrey, Tommen, and then suddenly him - such a man is just not very trustworthy, don't you think?

And the idea that you reward such a man with a very important position isn't a great idea, either. How wise would it have been if Cersei had made a Riverlord who had bent the knee/switched camps her Hand? Or how wise would Robb have been to give command of a part of his army to some turncloaking Lord of the West?

Tarly would play in the same league. Aegon has other people to reward with important positions. Tarly certainly would get some reward if he joined Aegon but I don't think it would be a really exalted position. He certainly would get some rewards but not something like Highgarden, the Handship, or some other great price. If Aegon would actually attaint the Tyrells the seat and the Reach would most likely go to somebody who has earned his trust. Perhaps Mathis Rowan - or much more likely actually Harry Strickland.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, the chronology would still be that after the Blackwater Lord Alester Florent was attainted and Brightwater and all its lands and incomes granted to Garlan Tyrell. At this time Lord Alester Florent was still alive on Dragonstone, and Alekyne Florent wasn't a (self-styled) lord. He was just his father's heir. Technically you cannot attaint a guy who doesn't own anything in the first place yet.

Therefore the styling of Alekyne Florent in the appendix is actually legally incorrect. Alekyne isn't an attainted lord, he is the son of an attainted lord who might consider himself the rightful Lord of Brightwater. The actual Lord of Brightwater is Garlan Tyrell since ASoS.

Mace and Tarly are both dismissive of Jon Connington, his identity, and the threat he poses. In my opinion a better way to interpret this talk is - as I've said repeatedly - that Tarly and Mace both want to put additional pressure on Kevan by making it clear that they won't march against Connington as long as they don't get what they want. Which is Margaery's acquittal. They use the Aegon threat as bargaining chip in their dealings with Kevan because they know that King Tommen is completely dependent on the Tyrell army.

Varys and Illyrio are right now not on Aegon's council. But I admitted and suggested above that either of them is actually a much better candidate to replace Connington as Hand should he die or be dismissed.

There, you have it! Our very own Lord Varys has spoken. You may now disregard what has been published as jibberish. 

(Oh, and I certainly hope you are licensed to practice law in ASOIAF, Lord Varys. My understanding is that the unauthorized practice of law is a criminal offense.) 

[estermonty python]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The point with Tarly is that it is actually very unlikely that any king would reward such a turncloaking traitor as he obviously would be in a scenario in which he betrays Mace. Aegon will learn that Tarly backed Renly, Joffrey, Tommen, and then suddenly him - such a man is just not very trustworthy, don't you think?

This is a bit of a false equivalency.  You could just as easily frame it the other way, that Tarly was unflappingly loyal to his liege lord, depsite the fact that that lord continued to switch alliances, until Tarly broke with him to join Aegon.  Besides, if Aegon hopes to conquer Westeros and rule, he needs all manner of lords bannermen to "betray" their liege lords and current king and declare for him.  

 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And the idea that you reward such a man with a very important position isn't a great idea, either. How wise would it have been if Cersei had made a Riverlord who had bent the knee/switched camps her Hand? Or how wise would Robb have been to give command of a part of his army to some turncloaking Lord of the West?

Well Orton Merryweather is a Lord of the Reach who switched camps from Renly and Cersei named him her Hand (not saying this was necessarily a "wise" choice, but it did happen).  Robb made Raynald Westerling his royal standard bearer (I think to replace Hal Mollen?) and confidant.  Overall, though, I agree; I don't really see Aegon putting Tarly in a position of extreme influence.  He could, however, set Tarly to conquering the Reach for him; his treatment of his wife's kin and men at arms shows he has few qualms with subduing former allies.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Tarly would play in the same league. Aegon has other people to reward with important positions. Tarly certainly would get some reward if he joined Aegon but I don't think it would be a really exalted position. He certainly would get some rewards but not something like Highgarden, the Handship, or some other great price. If Aegon would actually attaint the Tyrells the seat and the Reach would most likely go to somebody who has earned his trust. Perhaps Mathis Rowan - or much more likely actually Harry Strickland.

I agree that "Aegon has other people to reward with important positions," but I don't think that takes Highgarden off the table.  On the contrary, I'd expect him to take a page from the book of the original Aegon, and rewards those lords bannermen who support him by exalting them within their own regions.  In the same way the Tyrells were elevated to replace the Gardener kings, if the Tyrells don't fall in line (and I doubt they will) they stand to lose Highgarden to a lesser house in the Reach.  That could be Tarly, or Mathis Rowan.  I don't really think either one is more likely than the other; they seem to fit in similar boxes in the story.  Both capable, both martial, both old-school Targ loyalists.  Tarly has more reason for grievance against Tyrell, which is why I thought he would be a prime candidate to push Aegon's claim in the Reach, but Rowan has more occasion to actually deal with Aegon directly; after all, Rowan is leading the token siege on Storm's End, which is where Aegon was headed at the end of ADOD.  I don't see granting control over the Reach to an outsider as a particularly likely scenario, as the whole region would resent the rule of, say Harry Strickland, and the lesser houses of the reach are fairly likely to remain loyal to the Targs, considering they fought Robert until the bitter end.

 

tl;dr Mathis Rowan or Randyll Tarly would both be viable choices to champion Aegon's cause in the Reach and potentially take over Highgarden if Aegon's forces win.  

[Lord Varys]

13 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

There, you have it! Our very own Lord Varys has spoken. You may now disregard what has been published as jibberish. 

(Oh, and I certainly hope you are licensed to practice law in ASOIAF, Lord Varys. My understanding is that the unauthorized practice of law is a criminal offense.) 

Come on, you know that the way this is presented cannot be correct. It would be similar if we would get Shireen be described as 'an attainted Queen' after her father had died. But both she and her father had been attainted long before, at the time of Joff's ascension.

Alekyne Florent isn't a lord and never was a lord in the eyes of the Iron Throne. Because Brightwater was taken away from Lord Alester Florent while the man was still alive. As far as Joffrey, Tommen, and the Tyrells are concerned Alekyne Florent never was a lord. Just as Robert Arryn never was the Warden of the East until such time as the Iron Throne granted him that style - regardless what Lysa said.

11 hours ago, estermonty python said:

This is a bit of a false equivalency.  You could just as easily frame it the other way, that Tarly was unflappingly loyal to his liege lord, depsite the fact that that lord continued to switch alliances, until Tarly broke with him to join Aegon.  Besides, if Aegon hopes to conquer Westeros and rule, he needs all manner of lords bannermen to "betray" their liege lords and current king and declare for him.  

But we know - and people who know Tarly as well still know that - that Randyll Tarly was a pretty strong Renly supporter back when the guy was still in power. That is a sign that he either feigns loyalty or doesn't care all that much where his loyalties lie. If he ends up betraying Mace he would have betrayed both his late King Renly as well as his immediate liege lord. That would certainly put him in the same league as Roose and Walder insofar as loyalties are concerned.

11 hours ago, estermonty python said:

Well Orton Merryweather is a Lord of the Reach who switched camps from Renly and Cersei named him her Hand (not saying this was necessarily a "wise" choice, but it did happen).  Robb made Raynald Westerling his royal standard bearer (I think to replace Hal Mollen?) and confidant.  Overall, though, I agree; I don't really see Aegon putting Tarly in a position of extreme influence.  He could, however, set Tarly to conquering the Reach for him; his treatment of his wife's kin and men at arms shows he has few qualms with subduing former allies.

Cersei was clearly false in giving any sort of office to Orton Merryweather. That only happened because Taena won Cersei's trust, and she and Orton are most likely either working for Varys or are among those friends the Golden Company actually still has. The only interpretation of their behavior that makes some sense is if we assume they actually wanted to destabilize Tommen's reign and help antagonize Cersei and the Tyrells. If they were just ambitious upstarts then there would be no good explanation as to why Taena did not bring her son to court to grow up as Tommen's companion.

If Aegon has 'to conquer' the Reach then his campaign will fail. Such a conquest will antagonize most/all of the Reach lords against him, and Tarly would be a huge moron to assume his family could survive if he turns against his peers. Aegon has to win the Reach's friendship - or say, the friendship of the majority of the Reach lords. If they end up turning Reach lord against Reach lord in a fight for control of the land then Euron will win in the end.

11 hours ago, estermonty python said:

I agree that "Aegon has other people to reward with important positions," but I don't think that takes Highgarden off the table.  On the contrary, I'd expect him to take a page from the book of the original Aegon, and rewards those lords bannermen who support him by exalting them within their own regions.  In the same way the Tyrells were elevated to replace the Gardener kings, if the Tyrells don't fall in line (and I doubt they will) they stand to lose Highgarden to a lesser house in the Reach.  That could be Tarly, or Mathis Rowan.  I don't really think either one is more likely than the other; they seem to fit in similar boxes in the story.  Both capable, both martial, both old-school Targ loyalists.  Tarly has more reason for grievance against Tyrell, which is why I thought he would be a prime candidate to push Aegon's claim in the Reach, but Rowan has more occasion to actually deal with Aegon directly; after all, Rowan is leading the token siege on Storm's End, which is where Aegon was headed at the end of ADOD.  I don't see granting control over the Reach to an outsider as a particularly likely scenario, as the whole region would resent the rule of, say Harry Strickland, and the lesser houses of the reach are fairly likely to remain loyal to the Targs, considering they fought Robert until the bitter end.

The difference between the Conqueror and Prince Aegon is that Aegon I didn't have a huge army of foreign invaders at his back. He just had his own levies and a few bannermen - but they profited the most from this whole thing. Orys Baratheon got Storm's End, the Stormlands, the Durrandon heir as a bride, and the Handship. Quenton Qoherys, Aegon's old master-of-arms, received the lordship of Harrenhal. Those lords who bent the knee first (Rosby, Stokeworth, Darklyn, Mooton) also got their fair share of rewards, and then, of course, the Tullys and the Tyrells.

The Tullys really earned the respect and the trust of the Targaryens which is evident from the fact that Edmyn Tully actually risked something declaring for Aegon as well as by the fact that he later succeeded Orys Baratheon as Hand of the King. But the Tyrells didn't risk anything by handing Highgarden to Aegon, and the price Aegon gave them was actually poisoned. They were given Highgarden and the Reach but to keep it they were totally dependent on the Targaryens because they did not exactly have a claim to the castle or the Reach as a whole. Thus the Tyrells were actually a sort of tool the Targaryens used to keep the Reach under their thumb. And that worked pretty well. The Tyrells would never betray the Targaryens (at least not openly).

In Rowan's case we actually have reason to believe he is a Targaryen loyalist. He wants Jaime to see Jaime dead and he looks very pissed when the murders of Aegon and Rhaenys are discussed at the Small Council table in ASoS. We have no indication whatsoever that Tarly does care about the Targaryens one way or another. If Rowan's feelings are as apparent as they are in the books then Connington most likely would know that his devotion to the Targaryens he may be showing after he has been captured is not an act. And thus the first major Reach Lord to join Prince Aegon will inevitably be Lord Mathis Rowan, not Randyll Tarly. And he'll thus get the biggest reward - especially if it turns out that his reputation (being a well-respected and well-liked guy throughout the entire Reach) will draw many other men to Aegon's banner.

And as I've said - Tarly would essentially be a traitor if turned his cloak against Mace. How do you imagine he would win Aegon's trust or allegiance? By losing a battle against him? That should only work if Tarly really suffers a crushing defeat - if he actually kills hundreds or thousands of soldiers of the Golden Company before the battle is won then things will look a lot differently. We'll have to wait and see how that battle turns out - assuming Tarly even leads the army. If he is the guy staying behind in KL and Mace is captured by Aegon than he has a chance to turn his cloak, hasn't he? And if Mace dies in battle - well, then the decision is left to Willas, and he is most likely smart enough to abandon Tommen and join Aegon.

But in any case - Prince Aegon is not the Conqueror (and neither is Daenerys later on). He will have to satisfy the needs and desires of his own men first before he can think about rewarding turncloaks or even foes who bent the knee without a fight. Had the Conqueror been in the position of Prince Aegon he most likely wouldn't have been able to allow the Lannisters, Arryns, or Starks to keep their castles and lands - because the men fighting and bleeding for him from the start would have demanded the biggest prices for themselves.

And, well, Tarly isn't likely to be the first Reach Lord to join Aegon. That will most likely be Rowan, followed shortly thereafter by Orton Merryweather.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

35 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Come on, you know that the way this is presented cannot be correct. It would be similar if we would get Shireen be described as 'an attainted Queen' after her father had died. But both she and her father had been attainted long before, at the time of Joff's ascension.

Alekyne Florent isn't a lord and never was a lord in the eyes of the Iron Throne. Because Brightwater was taken away from Lord Alester Florent while the man was still alive. As far as Joffrey, Tommen, and the Tyrells are concerned Alekyne Florent never was a lord.

Seems that Alester knew that as well

His lordship stared at the pail in horror. "That Lord Stannis give up his claim to the Iron Throne and retract all he said of Joffrey's bastardy, on the condition that he be accepted back into the king's peace and confirmed as Lord of Dragonstone and Storm's End. I vowed to do the same, for the return of Brightwater Keep and all our lands. I thought . . . Lord Tywin would see the sense in my proposal.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Come on, you know that the way this is presented cannot be correct. It would be similar if we would get Shireen be described as 'an attainted Queen' after her father had died. But both she and her father had been attainted long before, at the time of Joff's ascension.

Alekyne Florent isn't a lord and never was a lord in the eyes of the Iron Throne. Because Brightwater was taken away from Lord Alester Florent while the man was still alive. As far as Joffrey, Tommen, and the Tyrells are concerned Alekyne Florent never was a lord. Just as Robert Arryn never was the Warden of the East until such time as the Iron Throne granted him that style - regardless what Lysa said.

It's pretty clear. Aliser and the Florents were attainted. That is stated as quoted above. (You have failed to provide any quotes to support your position.) Clearly, the Tyrells would want Alekyne to be attainted to provide clearer title to Garlan's new estate. Clearly, the Tarlys would not want their "Florents" attainted. Thus, based on the published text we can assume that Alekyne was attainted, but Dickon's and his mum were not.