Sansa meets Littlefinger

[Aegon_Blackfyre]

I Think LF being in the north so quick was a result of the TV show trying to get to the point with the northern storyline.

With the TV show its been around 3 years in the GOT universe from when King Robert arrived at WF to where we are now and the show has made it difficult to work out at which points the main cast are in terms of time.

For all we know when LF reaches Moles Town/or Castle Black, Dany could already of returned to Meereen and could already be on a fleet heading for Westeros, but we wouldn't know because everyone's storyline is out of sync with each other.

[TheLastLibrarian]

4 minutes ago, Aegon_Blackfyre said:

 

I Think LF being in the north so quick was a result of the TV show trying to get to the point with the northern storyline.

With the TV show its been around 3 years in the GOT universe from when King Robert arrived at WF to where we are now and the show has made it difficult to work out at which points the main cast are in terms of time.

For all we know when LF reaches Moles Town/or Castle Black, Dany could already of returned to Meereen and could already be on a fleet heading for Westeros, but we wouldn't know because everyone's storyline is out of sync with each other.

 

To be fair, I like the teleportation devices, I don't want to pause storylines progression because of some travels

[Aegon_Blackfyre]

1 minute ago, TheLastLibrarian said:

To be fair, I like the teleportation devices, I don't want to pause storylines progression because of some travels

They are good for getting to the point and not wasting our time, but to me its starting to look like they're starting to rush the TV series. I understand its gonna be expensive to drag the show above 8 seasons but theres so much the could of done. Its like with the Dornish story line, it had some potential yet they killed a big player like Doran off, I think they'll end up doing something similar with the Greyjoy plot which would end up being a shame.

But back to LF it is good they're sparing us the boring journeys from the Vale to the North but I think it just shows they're beginning to rush AGOT just to reach the ending quicker.

[Smoke317]

3 hours ago, Ashlesha said:

Sansa carried the same blood as Lyanna, Cat and Arya. She has in it her to be a player. I suspect after asking that question to Littlefinger she is going to rush into his arms and cry.

She is going to have LF besides her till she gets control of Winterfell.

Cat was the furthest thing from a player. Her foolish decision to free Jamie, the only bargaining chip Robb had, played a large part in his destruction. Just like kidnapping Tyrion led to Ned Arya and Sansa being in an even more dangerous situation. I may be forgetting but I can't think of 1 sound decision that Cat made to signify her as a player.  Oh yeah, she told Robb not to send Theon to the iron islands...  But that's it. Robb should have sent her home to care for Bran and Rickon and not put her on his war council. Should have given that job to the Blackfish and maybe Winterfell would still be controlled by the Starks with Cat there to look over it...  I pray that Sansa is a much better player of the game than Cat or she will end up literally playing the Stoneheart role with her throat cut. 

[permaximum]

I'm sorry pals but much of the discussion here can't be far from what will actually happen. Although this season is full with plot holes - I guess that's because they're lacking any source material (the books which I haven't read yet) and they really started to adress fan concerns and popular opinions - there haven't been extremely critical plot holes yet. Some people here rightfully criticize the new season for plot holes and lazy writing but this thread has even bigger, definetely critical plot holes.

Let's remember some facts first.

1-) Former Master of Coin Littlefinger is currently the Lord of House Baelish, the Lord of Harrenhal, the Lord Paramount of the Trident and the Lord Protector of the Vale.

2-) At the moment Littlefinger is allied with Lannisters, Tyrells, Boltons, Arryns and possibly Sansa Stark thus Starks.

3-) He has the backing of the Crown to invade the North and claim the Warden of the North title.

4-) He has 100% control over the actual Lord of the Vale and noone else has even a small portion of control over Robin.

5-) All armies (except Dorne's) fought, their numbers are lesser and soldiers are tired but the Vale's army is 100% fresh and ready for war.

6-) All of these combined makes Littlefinger the most powerful man in Westeros. And Varys thinks he is the most dangerous man in Westeros. With that combination he's currently unstoppable as long as he carefully goes one by one without taking the other forces' interruption starting with Boltons now.

7-) When the last time Robin and Sansa met face to face, Sansa slapped him in the face. Robin probably doesn't like her after that slap and his words in the last episode ("Well, she's my cousin") pretty much confirms it. He didn't spend a quarter of the time with Sansa which he has spent with Lord Royce  and you all saw the last episode.

8-) It was made clear that Sansa and Jon will need the Vale army to fight Boltons in the last episode. So both of them need Littlefinger.

9-) Sansa didn't even beat anybody. She didn't even order someone to beat another one. Let alone killing someone by herself or ordering someone to kill another person. You don't suddently become a calculated killer.

10-) Sansa has more people in her radar before she thinks about getting revenge on Littlefinger. Especially since she know LF killed Joffrey and smuggled her from KL.

11-) Even if she decided to kill LF after using him in the war for something she's not 100% sure, it would be the definite end of Starks and their supporters because not even the entire North at this point of story can withstand the full forces of the Vale. A crazy boy who likes only one person and that's LF in this case, would surely attack with everything he got to punish those responsible for the death of LF. And I'm not even talking about the Crown and Lannisters and the pursuers of Littlefinger's titles.

12-) Most importantly, Littlefinger is on the border of psychopathy and in the same time he's highly intelligent. He has ever ongoing calculation for any risks and profits, little empathy, no fear except not getting what he wants, no regrets, almost no morals, most of the time acts, probably highly resistant to physical and psychological pain. If someone like Sansa (not Tyrion or Varys) tried to play him especially after what happened at Winterfell, a man with his mindset would see it coming from miles away. He loves the game considerably more than Sansa.

13-) Last but not least, if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

 

I'm almost certain either Littlefinger will die at the hands of Ramsay in this season's end or he'll be killed by dragons or white walkers after he becomes the absolute puppet master of the Iron Throne in the near end of the show.

[Ashlesha]

5 hours ago, jonny__bravo said:

Confirmed where pray tell?

Detailed pictures were posted on one of the subreddits. However you can check for yourself. The tables, broken lamps, broken doors etc from the Mole's Town Attack scene and the trailer match perfectly.

[King Onion Knight]

Littlefinger will be dying at the hands of Sansa.

[iceheart91]

I'd like to think that despite what Littlefinger has to say, Sansa won't let him manipulate her anymore. I believe Aidan when he stated that Baelish was truly sorry for what he did to her in season 5, but that still doesn't make me trust him. At the end of the day, I still think he's ultimately looking out for himself, and I hope she can see that. She's shown the will to be strong and to fight, now she has to show how smart she can be. 

IF they make some sort of amends, are we assuming that he tags along to Bear Island? If so, that will certainly be interesting. I can't see Jon being that friendly towards him...especially since he knows that Littlefinger abandoned his sister at WF last year. My guess is that Davos, Mel, and Tormund will be going with them too.

[Ice Spider]

7 hours ago, Aegon_Blackfyre said:

I Think LF being in the north so quick was a result of the TV show trying to get to the point with the northern storyline.

With the TV show its been around 3 years in the GOT universe from when King Robert arrived at WF to where we are now and the show has made it difficult to work out at which points the main cast are in terms of time.

For all we know when LF reaches Moles Town/or Castle Black, Dany could already of returned to Meereen and could already be on a fleet heading for Westeros, but we wouldn't know because everyone's storyline is out of sync with each other.

^^This^^

 

I mean, come on, some people on here are making way too much of this timeline and teleporters et all. The problem isn't with the show, it's that you cannot untie yourself from linear thinking. The airing of each episode doesn't correlate into a precise and preordained amount of time, nor are each story lines necessarily in sync and happening concurrently. The time differential between episode one and episode two can be two weeks in the northern story line, two months in the meereen storyline, a year in KL, etc etc, while the time differential between episodes two and three can be different all together. They are never at any one given time necessarily  in sync either. For all we know, the little finger scene we seen at the Vale could have been happening as Sansa was still traveling to CB, nd had yet to arrive.

[The Mighty Nutsaculus]

7 hours ago, Ashlesha said:

It is already confirmed from the stills of that scene and stills of the Mole's town attack by Wildling scene that LF is meeting Sansa in Mole's town.

Isn't Mole's Town super close to castle black?

[Ice Spider]

Littlefinger is a big wild card here. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a character shift for a while with him, like we have seen with others in the past (aka like theon, hate theon, like theon again). After he meets with Sansa and Jon, and learns about the Others, why would he even want to be Warden of the North? I for one would be like screw that, time to go south, I hear Meereen is nice this time of year?

[Miss_Saffron]

@permaximum, I think you make too much of Littlefinger's power. Yes, he is a very good player, shrewd, cunning and ruthless. But he isn't omnipotent and the show clearly established he doesn't know everything and occasionally bets on the wrong horse.

1) Titles don't mean much on this show, they certainly don't protect from harm. The real value is the loyalty of the soldiers and lesser lords that are pledged to the major House. Tyrells and Lannisters keep their power intact for now because there is no in-fighting in the Reach or Westerlands. Starks fell because they were betrayed by those, who were supposed to serve them and make their power. Bolton's hold on the North is shaky because some northern houses support them and some would rise up at the merest hint there is a Stark to follow. 

2) Littefinger most probably has the loyalty of House Baelish - but that's a speck, compared to what major Houses have. We can assume he has total control over Harrenhal - but again, it's not that much. And in Vale, his power depends on the whims of slow-minded and moody kid. That for me doesn't sound like a firm hold. Also, remember that lesser lords usually don't hesitate to turn against their liege, if they have problems with his style of rule. Remember Robb? He didn't die because he married Talisa. He died because first Karstarks left, then Roose felt he wasn't appreciated enough and conspired with Freys. And show highlights growing tension between Littlefinger and Vale. If Vale lords collectively say 'screw you' to Littefinger, then what can he do? Robin can throw a tantrum, but that's about as far as it goes if Vale knights stop acting on his orders. For now, the loyalty for House Arryn prevails, but lord Royce is no Ned Stark.

3) For now, Lannisters and Tyrells are engaged in KL, trying to resolve the situation with High Sparrow and unruly peasants. That would take them some time. I don't think they would spare a thought for LF right now, much less any soldiers to back him if his hold on the Vale slips or if he has trouble controlling the North. And a mere declaration of Crown's support means nothing if the Crown isn't able to enforce it. Also, I think at least Olenna sees LF for the sleazebag he is, so if she sees that without the support of Tyrells LF power is in jeopardy, she probably would buy a popcorn not run to help him. And show explicitly established, that LF had an alliance with Roose not with Boltons and surely not with Ramsay. So if Vale turns on LF, there's no one, to bring it to heel. 

4) I don't think Sansa would order to hang LF first chance she gets. But I also don't think she'll put up with his schemes or trust him. He showed her his deck of cards because he envisioned they will plot and scheme together – and I believe that'll be his downfall. He had an advantage over everyone because they hadn't known what he really cared about. It was obvious he wanted power – but no-one knew what for. But he showed Sansa the giant chip on his shoulder – that in his youth he was rejected by the love of his life and her family because for them he was a nobody. And that he never got over this slight and the love itself. That makes him uniquely vulnerable to Sansa since now he projects his love of Catelyn onto her. And he believes that Sansa is still under his influence – his entire plan hinges on sweeping into the North, defeating Ramsay and presenting Sansa with Winterfell on a golden plate, so she'll be indebted, grateful and would return under his wings. I don't think, that's what gonna happen.

5) Last but not least, this story (show or books) isn't about how everything goes to hell all the time for everyone. It's about consequences of characters' actions and that they cannot dodge them forever. Ned paid for his honor, Robb for being a fool, Cersei for being an arrogant bitch, Joff for being an uncontrollable monster, Tywin for screwing with Tyrion one too many times, Sansa for her naivety and Jon for breaking the rules. I don't think LF is immune to this. Maybe he won't die, but he'll lose big eventually.

[Red Tiger]

I would LOVE to see Littlefinger die in this episode.

[messem]

18 hours ago, TheLastLibrarian said:

She will mate, she will

But mating is a kind of power play Cersei would do. not Sansa.

SCNR

[TheLastLibrarian]

Sorry I didn't use ponctuation, it's ' She will , mate, she will'

3 minutes ago, messem said:

But mating is a kind of power play Cersei would do. not Sansa.

SCNR

 

[Witty Banter]

16 hours ago, Ashlesha said:

It is already confirmed from the stills of that scene and stills of the Mole's town attack by Wildling scene that LF is meeting Sansa in Mole's town.

Source?

[King Edd of House Tollet]

I have a doubt: Which Lord Royce is this one in the show? Bronze Yohn or Nestor?

[the tower of albion]

11 hours ago, Ashlesha said:

Detailed pictures were posted on one of the subreddits. However you can check for yourself. The tables, broken lamps, broken doors etc from the Mole's Town Attack scene and the trailer match perfectly.

Are you sure it's not LC Moremonts quarters. Did they ever repair it?

[the tower of albion]

On 5/17/2016 at 2:02 PM, Bran Snow said:

It is known that LF has a valyrian teleporter.

I guess he could have taken a boat to Eastwatch-by-the-sea and then a horse to Castle Black

At the wall they have a bulshit detector called Ghost. Any bet's he's no where to be seen around Baelish?

[Xarkar]

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1-) Former Master of Coin Littlefinger is currently the Lord of House Baelish, the Lord of Harrenhal, the Lord Paramount of the Trident and the Lord Protector of the Vale.

The only title/army listed above that matters is Protector of the Vale.  Janos Slynt was Lord of Harrenhal, what good did that do him?  

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2-) At the moment Littlefinger is allied with Lannisters, Tyrells, Boltons, Arryns and possibly Sansa Stark thus Starks.

Lannisters yes, Tyrells maybe?, Boltons maybe?  (he was allies with Roose... but Ramsay? IDK).  Sansa? maybe.   Being allies with all could be more dangerous than allies of one if he gets caught.  

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5-) All armies (except Dorne's) fought, their numbers are lesser and soldiers are tired but the Vale's army is 100% fresh and ready for war.

All armies, but not all houses.  Plus lots of houses have had plenty of time to recover since Robbs death.  Ramsay basically has his own soldiers, the mercenaries, karstarks and maybe Umbers (but i dont think their army is at WF).   However if LF does indeed maintain 100% control of the KotV, and they do indeed go north, he will have the strongest army.  I am not sure he will be able to manipulate the army to take WF for him.

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8-) It was made clear that Sansa and Jon will need the Vale army to fight Boltons in the last episode. So both of them need Littlefinger.

 

I am not sure this is true.  Rob called the banners and got 20,000 men, which we assume includes all loyal Northern houses right?   We know there are lots of houses NOT supporting Ramsay,  So how many soldiers does house Bolton, Umber and Karstark have?   We know that the Umbers, Karstarks and Manderlays control "more soldiers than the other houses combined",  But Ramsay doesnt have the Manderlays,and we dont know how strong they are (They could be 50% of that number).   Add in Jon's Wildlings, House Mormont, (glover?) and he may have a reasonable force to fight.

 

Also remember Little Umber said he needs help fighting wildlings.  If all 2000 go South with Jon, they could in theory conquor Umber, Karstark and possibly the dreadfort on the way since Umber is already out numbered and the rest are defending winterfel.  Just saying, Ramsay may have a big army but its at WF.  If Jon and the Mormonts come from the North, The Vale + Manderlays from the south, Ramsay is going to be Royally Fed... If LF thinks he can then kill all the northern armies with the Vale army and become Warden of the North good luck, Supporting Roose is one thing (he is a Northerner), supporing LF is different.  He wont last.

 

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13-) Last but not least, if you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention.

i think they meet, she asks him if he knew about Ramsay, he says no and she plays along.  I dont think she will believe him for a second. We saw her talking to him with Brienne behind her.  That tells me she does not trust the man, and likely never will again.   I seriously hope someone tells Jon / Sansa what role he played in Neds death and he gets what is coming to him.