Lord Parker Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 So, we're only halfway through this season and we've already seen Summer killed and Shaggydog confirmed killed offscreen. A lot of people are pissed about this, and I don't blame them. Summer's death was meaningless, glazed over, and to be honest: stupid. However, I believe that Summer, Shaggydog, and perhaps even Nymeria are in for the same treat in the books. To be honest, I think it would be rather symbolic if in the books GRRM only had Ghost, the runt of the litter and the one arguably destined to die from the beginning, as the lone survivor and lone wolf. I just think D&D are going about everything so wrong, and that this is something that really can't be translated into television. To me, (and I'm sure to many others,) it looks like this season is just a slaughter fest for the wolves, but I'm not sure if there is really any other way to go about it. Theming is a lot less prominent in television than in books, and I feel like the same message isn't getting across when they kill the wolves as it would/will be when GRRM kills them. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke317 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Everyone assumes Ghost is the runt of the litter but if you go back and reread the early chapters of book 1, he's actually the alpha male of the pack. Martin writes that he's bigger than his brothers and sisters and Nymeria even pays homage to ghost as her superior. Also Martin writes that once ghost leaves for the wall with Jon, the other direwolves seem lost for a time. Many people think ghost was cast off by his mates when they were first found but I think he left on his own. He was also the first to open his eyes. Anyway, it is sad to see the direwolves die in the show though. Especially Summer. I figured Ghost, Nymeria, and Summer would have a large role to play in the endgame. Hopefully they still will in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfQueenArya Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Nymeria still has a large role to play so they better not let her or Ghost die. They are ignoring the symbolism from the very first episode! All because of stupid CGI... I bet none of the other dire wolves will die in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booknerd2 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If anything, I can only hope that since Big Nyms has been on her own (well, besides her minions she bosses around) and did not have the experience of being with Arya long, unlike all the Stark boys were with their dire wolves, that she gets some kind of special bonus points in the dire wolf death pool. And I wish it never happened from day one with Lady. Or Grey Wind. Or….argh! I holdout hope that since the Arya/Big Nyms separation has been an ongoing drama, plus with the old school cliffhanger/separation trope that has been building with it, will save her and buy her more page/screen time. And the tease of both connecting yet being far away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbob Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I don't think they're as important as people make them out to be. They were there to help the Stark children, and as a writer's symbol for the characters. You can also look at it as that the Stark children have to learn to survive themselves instead relying on this creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke317 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Did Summer seem whiter in this episode and not his typical brown, grey, and white as usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess of Dragonflies Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, Smoke317 said: Did Summer seem whiter in this episode and not his typical brown, grey, and white as usual? YES!!! I thought it was just me, but for a hot second, I thought it was Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
website error Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 It is nothing but a well-known cliche in Hollywood to kill a dog to get the audience invested in a show. It's a grotesque and barbaric practice. It makes the viewers complicit in abuse. It's like Tom Clancy creating horrible torturers so he can kill them and say he is "against" such things - but he sure seemed to enjoy describing the awful things. Or Stephen King describing horrible physical and moral violations committed by some demon - but Steve seemed to enjoy painting that picture. It's the same with Ramsey Sue. He can't just kill people, he has to kill them with a faintly pleased expression on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke317 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 1 minute ago, Fiddlefinger said: It is nothing but a well-known cliche in Hollywood to kill a dog to get the audience invested in a show. It's a grotesque and barbaric practice. It makes the viewers complicit in abuse. It's like Tom Clancy creating horrible torturers so he can kill them and say he is "against" such things - but he sure seemed to enjoy describing the awful things. Or Stephen King describing horrible physical and moral violations committed by some demon - but Steve seemed to enjoy painting that picture. It's the same with Ramsey Sue. He can't just kill people, he has to kill them with a faintly pleased expression on his face. I think it's just cost saving. The endgame in the show will be dragons vs white walkers. So the direwolves have become expendable. Notice they say tits and dragons and not tits and direwolves. Hell since the resurrection we haven't seen ghost since and we're stuck in castle black. Best guess is Nymeria will make an appearance later in the season. And she and Ghost will play roles as the Alpha male and female of the Wolfpack. If it's deemed to expensive and they need the money for dragons, they'll both die saving Jon, Arya, and Bran from white walkers like Summer just did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardoromell Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Smoke317 said: I think it's just cost saving. The endgame in the show will be dragons vs white walkers. So the direwolves have become expendable. Notice they say tits and dragons and not tits and direwolves. Hell since the resurrection we haven't seen ghost since and we're stuck in castle black. Best guess is Nymeria will make an appearance later in the season. And she and Ghost will play roles as the Alpha male and female of the Wolfpack. If it's deemed to expensive and they need the money for dragons, they'll both die saving Jon, Arya, and Bran from white walkers like Summer just did. exactly, the books have many other characters we are invested in to lend shock value. On the show not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epyon Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Summer did seem whiter, but considering he's in a snow covered hellscape North of the wall, it kind of makes sense that he'd wear a more winter coat. As far as symbolism is concerned, I actually think offing Summer might have been the right move...... Bran was called a sweet Summer CHILD by Nan in Season 1...... and this episode was Bran's "Kill the boy" moment.... as he effectively just shed his boyhood, and maybe even his identity as a Stark to become the Last Greenseer or Bloodraven's replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarieAntoinette Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I hope the wolves at least play a bigger role in the books, even if they all die in the end. I have always loved the the wolves and the bond they share with the Stark kids, so I'm quite disappointed about the death of Shaggy and Summer and the lack of wolves in general on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke317 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Epyon said: Summer did seem whiter, but considering he's in a snow covered hellscape North of the wall, it kind of makes sense that he'd wear a more winter coat. As far as symbolism is concerned, I actually think offing Summer might have been the right move...... Bran was called a sweet Summer CHILD by Nan in Season 1...... and this episode was Bran's "Kill the boy" moment.... as he effectively just shed his boyhood, and maybe even his identity as a Stark to become the Last Greenseer or Bloodraven's replacement. They should have strapped Bran's skid onto Summer and he ran off with Bran and Meera on the skid. But that would have taken too much money. The direwolves have become expensive and thus expendable. Did we even get a glimpse of ghost leaving with Jon and the others when they left Castle Black??? It's gonna be about dragons and white walkers going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dracarys Stormborn Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 They have completely ignored the symbolism of the direwolves. Lady and Grey Wind died for a literary purpose. Shaggydog and Summer died because of the budget. That's the only reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I believe it's all about the budget, in their opinion the direwolves are delivering too little when compared to the cost of making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeIAF Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I believe it's all about the budget, in their opinion the direwolves are delivering too little when compared to the cost of making them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PigJouster Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 40 minutes ago, GeorgeIAF said: I believe it's all about the budget, in their opinion the direwolves are delivering too little when compared to the cost of making them. I do hope that's the case, for the books' sake. Shaggy Dog and especially Summer both died for no real reason. Hell, even Grey Wind, back in Season 3, died wrong. I was so hoping to see a Stark supporter set him loose to tear apart a few Freys like in the books, and instead he was shot down in a cage. At this point, I expect the next episode to have some random, nameless character say "I killed a direwolf in the Riverlands the other day!" and for that to be the end of Nymeria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherofStrife Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I hate that Summer got a blink-and-you'd-miss-it kind of a death. At least focus on him a bit more. He was just a blur that jump into the picture, whimpered and died. Less budget on walking dead zombie extras, more budget on poor Summer. I guess it's too late though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Aunt Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 16 minutes ago, MotherofStrife said: I hate that Summer got a blink-and-you'd-miss-it kind of a death. At least focus on him a bit more. He was just a blur that jump into the picture, whimpered and died. Less budget on walking dead zombie extras, more budget on poor Summer. I guess it's too late though. It isn't too late. Since Summer is a Zombie now they can spend their zombie-budget on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romantic Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I wonder if Bran could warg zombie-Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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