Ranking the targ DYNASTY

[middle-aged griff]

Five Targs I just want to hang with:

1. Breakspear 

2. Dragonknight 

3. Rhaenyra

4. Maester Aemon

5. Daemon Blackfyre (Aegon IV legitimized him, so he counts as a Targ)

[Paxter Redwyne]

 

On 3.06.2016 at 2:31 AM, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

No Maegor 

Or Maekar you have Daemon who was the youngest? Targ knight (I think) and Dragonknight but left the other 2 young targ Knights out of the list.

Both Daemons have a place in any top 5

Same for Dragonknight 

Rhaegar could probably have taken Aegon 1 IMHO 

Maekar wasn't pro fighter. He was rather commander than warrior. He is in good, but not great tier.

And Rhaegar is overrated. He only won one tourney and got killed in battle with robert, only slightly injuring him.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On June 3, 2016 at 10:59 PM, LionoftheWest said:

I disagree. Anyone who can take on Robert Baratheon in his prime in single combat is pretty good, especially so when it left Robert dangerously wounded.

 

We are on the same page on this. I think it's somewhat obvious Robert Baratheon was the Laughing Storm 2.0. 

Ser Duncan the Tall's victory over the Laughing Storm is one of if not the most impressive deed he accomplished as a KG

So since Rhaegar badly injured Robert, he has to be very skilled. Very very skilled considering Ser Duncan stood eye to eye with Laughing Storm. Rhaegar probably gave up approximately 3 to 7 inches and 15 to 75 pounds 

 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On June 2, 2016 at 1:10 PM, Paxter Redwyne said:

Aegon V had good intentions, but in the end he did not managed to accomplish much. If his children had obeyed him, his reign may be better.

On my list Aenys would be sixth. I agree that he was shitty king, but in my opinion aerys i the bookfucker was even weaker kign than him. Aenys at least wanted to fight rebels (even tho he had no idea what actually do with them). And Baelor reign may be peaceful, but all his actions as king was utterly dumb. This idiot even managed to starve himself to death by fasting. 

Lol don't ask me about Baelor except that I believe those snakes did obviously do the damage that made him even more crazy lol 

I thought the World Book went out of the way to say the unworthy abused his power worse than any King in history. But.... KL should make a Jamie Lanny statue. Nuking your city with acid that goes through metal (and almost every other substance) is the worst possible way to use your power. 

Maegor needed to get rid of people who knew that much info about secret tunnels where he and others at court sleep. (Except his holdfast) 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

8 hours ago, Paxter Redwyne said:

 

Maekar wasn't pro fighter. He was rather commander than warrior. He is in good, but not great tier.

And Rhaegar is overrated. He only won one tourney and got killed in battle with robert, only slightly injuring him.

My mistake. I got he and Daemon Blackfyre's 12 yr old knighting confused somehow (sue me.... I know the world book like a pro) But you are correct Maekar doesn't belong in the top tier but there's no doubt in my mind, at his size he was formidable to say the very least

Sorry I'm picking on your posts it's bc yours are interesting take it as a compliment 

[Lion of the West]

11 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

He injured him nothing more when Robert exterminated him.

Injure is still injure. That's like saying Gwyane Corbray was a bad fighter because Daermon Blackfyre laid him low and not the other way around.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

20 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

I doubt Robert had only one or two maesters available, and I don't doubt that a spare could be found for the presumtive but all the more likely new king. But I could be wrong, of course.

When the furture King is "dangerously wounded" like you say, it's all hands on deck to save him, no?. Robert sent his own maester to attend to Barristan. Idk  to me dangerously wounded means there's a very good chance you could die. 

[Lion of the West]

6 hours ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

When the furture King is "dangerously wounded" like you say, it's all hands on deck to save him, no?. Robert sent his own maester to attend to Barristan. Idk  to me dangerously wounded means there's a very good chance you could die. 

That is very true and would also go hand in hand with Robert being carelessly generous to both friend and foe.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

13 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

Injure is still injure. That's like saying Gwyane Corbray was a bad fighter because Daermon Blackfyre laid him low and not the other way around.

Not true. He could easily had scratched Robert, that doesn't make him a good fighter. He most likely had hurted Robert at his foot and yet that doesn't make him a good fighter.

[Lion of the West]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Not true. He could easily had scratched Robert, that doesn't make him a good fighter. He most likely had hurted Robert at his foot and yet that doesn't make him a good fighter.

You don't scrath somone on the foot by accident in a battle with armor on you. The only way Rhaegar could have landed a blow on Robert was to stand against Robert long enough to land a blow on Robert that was good and hard enough to get past both Robert's defense and through his armor. And if it was a scratch I see no reason why it would be refered to as an injury or wound and not the scratch it was.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, LionoftheWest said:

You don't scrath somone on the foot by accident in a battle with armor on you. The only way Rhaegar could have landed a blow on Robert was to stand against Robert long enough to land a blow on Robert that was good and hard enough to get past both Robert's defense and through his armor. And if it was a scratch I see no reason why it would be refered to as an injury or wound and not the scratch it was.

Actually you do. From all we know Rhaegar was aiming Robert's upper body and missed hurting his leg. In any case the fact that Rhaegar wounded Robert isn't a proof about his fighting skills. The fact is that Rhaegar fought in one battle in his life time and he died during that battle. There is no proof that he was a good fighter.

[Lion of the West]

20 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Actually you do. From all we know Rhaegar was aiming Robert's upper body and missed hurting his leg. In any case the fact that Rhaegar wounded Robert isn't a proof about his fighting skills. The fact is that Rhaegar fought in one battle in his life time and he died during that battle. There is no proof that he was a good fighter.

You are really grasping at straws here. In no way do I find your scenario to be realistic on Rhaegar wounding Robert as if they were part of some Black Adder episode.

And we have the same things for Rhaegar being a good warrior as we have for Arthur Dayne, the Dragonknight, Robert Baratheon etc. which is that people talk well of their fighting potential.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

9 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

And we have the same things for Rhaegar being a good warrior as we have for Arthur Dayne, the Dragonknight, Robert Baratheon etc. which is that people talk well of their fighting potential.

I am calling it bs. We have seen examples of how Arthur was a good fighter and a good strategic mind just like Robert. We have seen absolutely nothing like that for Rhaegar who lost the only battle he had participated in.

11 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

You are really grasping at straws here. In no way do I find your scenario to be realistic on Rhaegar wounding Robert as if they were part of some Black Adder episode.

Good for you. 

[Lion of the West]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I am calling it bs. We have seen examples of how Arthur was a good fighter and a good strategic mind just like Robert. We have seen absolutely nothing like that for Rhaegar who lost the only battle he had participated in.

Good for you. 

You may call it all you wish as n one in the series ever questions Rhaegar's capabilities as a warrior, which I think they would have, and its a fact that he rode well in the tourneys where he took part, a Lannisport and at Storm's End. And as I recall, there haven't been a single occasion where someone rode well in a tourney and was not a good fighter, for the simple reason that tourneys are traning for war dressed up as sports.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tournament_in_honor_of_Viserys's_birth

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tourney_at_Storm's_End

And please recall that I don't think that Rhaegar was the greatest warrior to have walked the eath. But I do think that he was very skilled and capable.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

9 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

You may call it all you wish as n one in the series ever questions Rhaegar's capabilities as a warrior, which I think they would have, and its a fact that he rode well in the tourneys where he took part, a Lannisport and at Storm's End. And as I recall, there haven't been a single occasion where someone rode well in a tourney and was not a good fighter, for the simple reason that tourneys are traning for war dressed up as sports.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tournament_in_honor_of_Viserys's_birth

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tourney_at_Storm's_End

And please recall that I don't think that Rhaegar was the greatest warrior to have walked the eath. But I do think that he was very skilled and capable.

Why you feel the need to link the wikia? I think that the books are enough.

In any case no one said that Rhaegar was a bad tourney fighter, I am saying that he wasn't good in real fighting. 

[Lion of the West]

26 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Why you feel the need to link the wikia? I think that the books are enough.

In any case no one said that Rhaegar was a bad tourney fighter, I am saying that he wasn't good in real fighting. 

I linked because I didn't want to dig through the books to find the exact quotes and thus I took a short cut. I hope its ok.

The reason I brought up the tourneys is that due to my understanding of the series, there hasn't been a single person skilled in tourneys who was not also skilled in real combat. And if this is true then it would be evidence for that Rhaegar was skilled in normal combat as well. But if there are examples of people good at tourneys who are not also good at fighting for real that could be brought to light then I would re-assess the view of Rhaegar regarding this point.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

12 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

I linked because I didn't want to dig through the books to find the exact quotes and thus I took a short cut. I hope its ok.

The reason I brought up the tourneys is that due to my understanding of the series, there hasn't been a single person skilled in tourneys who was not also skilled in real combat. And if this is true then it would be evidence for that Rhaegar was skilled in normal combat as well. But if there are examples of people good at tourneys who are not also good at fighting for real that could be brought to light then I would re-assess the view of Rhaegar regarding this point.

Balman Byrch, Uthor Underleaf  and Arlan of Pennytree all of them were named as good jousters yet no one said that they were good fighters, on the other hand Dunk was a terrible jouster and a really good fighter.

[Lion of the West]

17 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Balman Byrch, Uthor Underleaf  and Arlan of Pennytree all of them were named as good jousters yet no one said that they were good fighters, on the other hand Dunk was a terrible jouster and a really good fighter.

Thanks for the candidates. All of them are indeed unknown qualities outside of tourneys but it wasn't exactly what I was looking for, but an example of someone who is clearly bad in actual combat but is at least good in a tourney.

And Dunk, well, he's a special case given his massive strength but I see your point.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

And Dunk, well, he's a special case given his massive strength but I see your point.

By your logic the Rhaegar was a special case in jousting; he was the Crown Prince and just as we have seen happening, his enemies went easy on him because they didn't wanted to hurt him.

[Lion of the West]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

By your logic the Rhaegar was a special case in jousting; he was the Crown Prince and just as we have seen happening, his enemies went easy on him because they didn't wanted to hurt him.

That could have been true but if that's the case then the same would be true of all people of the royal or Lord Paramount Houses. I for one don't think that people went easy on the Laughing Storm nor that they would go easy on the Prince when he was an adult and entered the lists.