Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said: That could have been true but if that's the case then the same would be true of all people of the royal or Lord Paramount Houses. I for one don't think that people went easy on the Laughing Storm nor that they would go easy on the Prince when he was an adult and entered the lists. A Lord isn't the same as the Heir to the Throne. We have already seen that people went easy on someone who is the heir to the Throne yet we have never seen people going easy on a Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, LionoftheWest said: You may call it all you wish as n one in the series ever questions Rhaegar's capabilities as a warrior, which I think they would have, and its a fact that he rode well in the tourneys where he took part, a Lannisport and at Storm's End. And as I recall, there haven't been a single occasion where someone rode well in a tourney and was not a good fighter, for the simple reason that tourneys are traning for war dressed up as sports. http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tournament_in_honor_of_Viserys's_birth http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Tourney_at_Storm's_End And please recall that I don't think that Rhaegar was the greatest warrior to have walked the eath. But I do think that he was very skilled and capable. All the guy is saying is Rhaegar could be placed in a warrior list almost as high as Robert Baratheon. Not many targs in history could hang with Robert (maybe 5.... Maybe) and to say Robert "just had a scratch" is like saying Robert "just had a glass of wine" and since yall are going to start completely guessing at what happened.... The maester could have fixed Robert enough to sew/clean/did everything he could, and just stayed to tend to the PRESUMPTIVE KING. But Robert wanted Barristan so badly he showed compassion by sending away a maester to someone he wanted to stay alive. Instead of speculating look at the text. A boat ripped him open and he was bragging about how he still got the kill. If he's willing to brag about defeating a boar, don't you think he would downplay the fact that his mortal enemy WOUNDED him with a SWORD. A scratch..... Y'all are nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 26 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: A Lord isn't the same as the Heir to the Throne. We have already seen that people went easy on someone who is the heir to the Throne yet we have never seen people going easy on a Lord. Actually that joust training bag didn't take it easy on the Heir to the throne (tommen) And Bran certainly didn't take it easy on Tommen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just now, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Actually that joust training bag didn't take it easy on the Heir to the throne (tommen) And Bran certainly didn't take it easy on Tommen Tommen was the King and it was a bag. While still in the line of succession Tommen wasn't the Heir when he and Bran met and they didn't had a formal tourney so I am calling it bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: I am calling it bs. We have seen examples of how Arthur was a good fighter and a good strategic mind just like Robert. We have seen absolutely nothing like that for Rhaegar who lost the only battle he had participated in. Good for you. Umm you just called Robert's mind strategic.... You kinda lost credibility. No wonder you are reaching so far. Robert's strategy is do I bang, eat, or drink it. Since were speculating maybe Robert got his leg cut and Rhaegar offered him to yield so Robert stands up and delivers the cheap shot breastplate crunch that killed Rhaegar. This is why you don't speculate... Rhaegar was very very skilled get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 19 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Umm you just called Robert's mind strategic.... You kinda lost credibility. No wonder you are reaching so far. Robert's strategy is do I bang, eat, or drink it. I cannot say of you are serious or just trolling. Or maybe you haven't read about Robert's Rebellion. 19 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Since were speculating maybe Robert got his leg cut and Rhaegar offered him to yield so Robert stands up and delivers the cheap shot breastplate crunch that killed Rhaegar. This is why you don't speculate... Fanfictions are not allowed here. 19 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: Rhaegar was very very skilled get over it. And that is proved how exactly? He was *proved* skilful in jousting but not at fighting since he lost the only fight he participated in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eyed Misbehavin Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Actually you do. From all we know Rhaegar was aiming Robert's upper body and missed hurting his leg. In any case the fact that Rhaegar wounded Robert isn't a proof about his fighting skills. The fact is that Rhaegar fought in one battle in his life time and he died during that battle. There is no proof that he was a good fighter. My apologies I forgot to say "from all we know" in my last post. I forgot saying "from all we know" is different than fan fiction. So from all we know Rhaegar caught a cheap shot If you want evidence Barristan said he excelled at everything he put his mind to, he said he was a "most puissant warrior, but not without peer (amazing but shit happens in a fight"), and Jorah notes "swords win wars and Rhaegar knew how to use one" If you didn't notice every "answer" is an opinion. You have failed to change my opinion, so thanks for ruining the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: If you want evidence Barristan said he excelled at everything he put his mind to, he said he was a "most puissant warrior, but not without peer (amazing but shit happens in a fight"), and Jorah notes "swords win wars and Rhaegar knew how to use one" Barristan isn't objective and Jorah didn't knew Rhaegar. From what we know from the books Rhaegar was a good jouster and he lost the only battle he participated in. WOW! What a great warrior! 14 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said: If you didn't notice every "answer" is an opinion. You have failed to change my opinion, so thanks for ruining the thread. Who said that I wanted or cared to change your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: A Lord isn't the same as the Heir to the Throne. We have already seen that people went easy on someone who is the heir to the Throne yet we have never seen people going easy on a Lord. The problem is that it isn't true at all. Robb didn't go easy on Joffrey when they trained. As for the tourney of Ashford, which I assume you're meaning, I always got the impression that Baelor's sons took it easy because it was meant for Maekar's sons to shine rather than that nobody dared to make a go at Baelor's sons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 Just now, LionoftheWest said: The problem is that it isn't true at all. Robb didn't go easy on Joffrey when they trained. They were training with fake swords. If you cannot see the difference between training with fake swords and a true joust ok. After all we have seen in the books that people went easy on the Prince *cough*Valarr*cough*. 2 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said: As for the tourney of Ashford, which I assume you're meaning, I always got the impression that Baelor's sons took it easy because it was meant for Maekar's sons to shine rather than that nobody dared to make a go at Baelor's sons. That doesn't make sense. Everyone were in a big conspiracy to go easy on Valarr in order Aerion or Daeron to *shine*? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Barristan isn't objective and Jorah didn't knew Rhaegar I'm not sure about that, but I thought I would add some stuff stated in the books. As Robert remembers: The waters of the Trident ran red around the hooves of their destriers as they circled and clashed, again and again, until at last a crushing blow from Robert's hammer stove in the dragon and the chest beneath it. When Ned had finally come on the scene, Rhaegar lay dead in the stream, while men of both armies scrabbled in the swirling waters for rubies knocked free of his armor. GoT Eddard I Rhaegar seems to have put up a good fight. Barristan answers Daenerys: "When he was young, His Grace rode brilliantly in a tourney at Storm's End, defeating Lord Steffon Baratheon, Lord Jason Mallister, the Red Viper of Dorne, and a mystery knight who proved to be the infamous Simon Toyne, chief of the kingswood outlaws. He broke twelve lances against Ser Arthur Dayne that day." "Was he the champion, then?" "No, Your Grace. That honor went to another knight of the Kingsguard, who unhorsed Prince Rhaegar in the final tilt." SoS Dany IV Yet he fails to tell her that Rhaegar was defeated by him (?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: Rhaegar seems to have put up a good fight. I see that the had put up a fight. 4 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said: Yet he fails to tell her that Rhaegar was defeated by him (?). I don't understand what you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted June 5, 2016 Share Posted June 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: <snip> I don't understand what you mean. Was Barristan the Knight who defeated Rhaegar in the tourney at Storm's End? I'm asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 12 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: They were training with fake swords. If you cannot see the difference between training with fake swords and a true joust ok. After all we have seen in the books that people went easy on the Prince *cough*Valarr*cough*. That doesn't make sense. Everyone were in a big conspiracy to go easy on Valarr in order Aerion or Daeron to *shine*? I can assure you that fake swords can still be dangerous and when Joffrey wants to go with sharp steel, Robb is all eager to let it come to that, and Ser Rodrick is willing to allow tourney swords, which are a bit more dangerous than the normal traning swords. So it don't seem like keeping back for the heir is the normal thing because if they did that, there's no way in hell that Baelor Breakspear for example would have been as good a knight as he turned out to be. Also remeber that you wrote the following below in regards to Tommen because during the Ashford tourney, Tommen was not the heir. 14 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Tommen was the King and it was a bag. While still in the line of succession Tommen wasn't the Heir when he and Bran met and they didn't had a formal tourney so I am calling it bs. But I don't think that everyone was in a big conspiracy. I just think that Baelor didn't intend to ride, thus steal the Targaryen thunder for himself, and that they would just need to tell the tourney master, steward or whoever run the games, to arrange the matches so that there wouldn't be any special match involing the descendents of Baelor. That requires only two men, Baelor to not compete, and one discreet instruction to the game master in matching the jousters and perhaps a word or two with Lord Ashford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted June 6, 2016 Share Posted June 6, 2016 19 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said: Was Barristan the Knight who defeated Rhaegar in the tourney at Storm's End? I'm asking. Yes. 7 hours ago, LionoftheWest said: I can assure you that fake swords can still be dangerous and when Joffrey wants to go with sharp steel, Robb is all eager to let it come to that, and Ser Rodrick is willing to allow tourney swords, which are a bit more dangerous than the normal traning swords. So it don't seem like keeping back for the heir is the normal thing because if they did that, there's no way in hell that Baelor Breakspear for example would have been as good a knight as he turned out to be. BS. You are talking about children in training as an example of the adult Heir of the Mad King. 7 hours ago, LionoftheWest said: Also remeber that you wrote the following below in regards to Tommen because during the Ashford tourney, Tommen was not the heir. Vallar was Baelor's heir so basically Vallar was the heir and even if he wasn't this just strengthen what I am saying because then it would bee everyone with Royal blood and not just the Heir. 7 hours ago, LionoftheWest said: But I don't think that everyone was in a big conspiracy. I just think that Baelor didn't intend to ride, thus steal the Targaryen thunder for himself, and that they would just need to tell the tourney master, steward or whoever run the games, to arrange the matches so that there wouldn't be any special match involing the descendents of Baelor. That requires only two men, Baelor to not compete, and one discreet instruction to the game master in matching the jousters and perhaps a word or two with Lord Ashford. It wasn't in Baelor's hand who his son will challenge or who will challenge him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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