Bad writing or fake arya?{spoilers}

[Morgana Lannister]

On 6/6/2016 at 10:40 PM, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

No, Arya was stabbed. The Faceless Men and Arya's journey with them has mirrored Jon's in the Night's Watch. From service to action. From person to weapon.  Their time in each institution has ended the same way.

Yes, I was thinking about this parallel too.  Jon's death was necessary to release him from his vows and I believe that Arya's "supposed death" is required by the FM otherwise they would keep hunting her down so, after having read a few theories I am for now totally subscribing to Arya having staged this somehow (not 100% sure as to how) but definitely convinced that this was a clever trick on her part, hence the synopsis saying "Arya has a plan..."

[Northern_Star]

This was so off! I first thought as well it was a dream. One thing that really makes me doubt all of this is that the FM have the rule that you can not kill someone you know. The waif was the one who practiced with Arya almost every day.

Bad writing can't account for this...

[Abhijeet Ashtikar]

The way she was walking was exactly like "Bran" did in his Green dreams with TEdR.. He can do things with his abilities..!! I would like to think this can be a possibility..!! Plus whateve she was doing like giving & taking the money back was right-handed.. We know that the Arya is left-handed on show.. Right? Any thoughts?

[Abhijeet Ashtikar]

On 6/6/2016 at 5:43 PM, ToTheWolves said:

So the whole arya scene from beginning to end through me off. It had just felt a little odd to me. At first I thought it was a dream but then came to find out it was not, but am I the only one who thought arya was acting a little different? 

-she was completely dressed different from the last time we seen her

-would she really be dumb enough to just strut around braavos in broad day light like that? After doing what she had just done?

- and where was needle? Did she sell it off screen for the coins she had?

 

i feel like there's a Scene missing from all of this or something but am I looking into this too much???

 

The way she was walking was exactly like "Bran" did in his Green dreams with TEdR.. He can do things with his abilities..!! I would like to think this can be a possibility..!! Plus whateve she was doing like giving & taking the money back was right-handed.. We know that the Arya is left-handed on show.. Right?

[Attitude]

19 minutes ago, Abhijeet Ashtikar said:

The way she was walking was exactly like "Bran" did in his Green dreams with TEdR.. He can do things with his abilities..!! I would like to think this can be a possibility..!! Plus whateve she was doing like giving & taking the money back was right-handed.. We know that the Arya is left-handed on show.. Right?

Arya is left handed indeed, but she does some things right handed:

http://www.tvguide.com/news/game-thrones-maisie-williams-1033874/

However, in this particular scene, there was no need to use the right hand. Good spotting! 

[House Cambodia]

54 minutes ago, Abhijeet Ashtikar said:

Plus whateve she was doing like giving & taking the money back was right-handed.. We know that the Arya is left-handed on show.. Right? Any thoughts?

Yeh, I think that could be an acute observation. Nice one!

[Chocs]

2 hours ago, ummester said:

What is wrong with Arya just dying? She's been on a pretty bad path for a while, she redeemed herself a little by deciding not to kill someone - her arc could finish there.

I've always thought though that Arya would never get back to Westeros in person - only in Nymeria. So what is wrong with Arya dying and passing her consciousness to Nymeria before she does? Nymeria and her pack could then join Jon.

Except she's mentioned as one of the main 5 by the author and the people associated with the show. We don't simply follow a character for 5 seasons for a 1 minute death  scene that doesn't even make one ounce of sense. As for redemption, LOL, for what? She's not going around killing innocents. 

[House Cambodia]

6 minutes ago, Chocs said:

Except she's mentioned as one of the main 5 by the author and the people associated with the show. We don't simply follow a character for 5 seasons for a 1 minute death  scene that doesn't even make one ounce of sense. As for redemption, LOL, for what? She's not going around killing innocents. 

Agreed - and they can't repeat a dead, oh not dead story, so I'm sure we'll see next week that's she's very not dead indeed.

[Chocs]

13 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Agreed - and they can't repeat a dead, oh not dead story, so I'm sure we'll see next week that's she's very not dead indeed.

I'm betting my money on her hallucinating, lol. Don't think it's bad writing this time around otherwise they would have explained the scene in those ''when George first told us about this'' videos. 

[CJDTrismegistus]

When Arya leaves Harrenhall, Jaqen meets up with her and states that - “A girl has many names on her lips….names to offer up to the Red God….she could offer them all…..one by one”.  To me this suggests that Jaqen doesn’t want Arya to be no-one as he’s offering her the chance to learn how to change her face to help her kill her enemies, the enemies of Arya Stark, not the enemies of no-one.

Jaqen invited Arya to be a FM by telling her she could learn how to kill her enemies.  Why would he then try to get her to forget who she was and become no-one?  Why would he punish her for ticking a name off her list if his initial selling point was for her to accomplish this?

So the idea of Arya becoming the Waif in a Arya Durden plot line just doesn’t make sense to me.  Why offer Arya the chance to kill her enemies and then when she eventually turns up, tell her that she’s not allowed to kill targets other than the ones given to her by the FM, as she has to become no-one?

This bit has never made any sense to me.

[Attitude]

28 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

When Arya leaves Harrenhall, Jaqen meets up with her and states that - “A girl has many names on her lips….names to offer up to the Red God….she could offer them all…..one by one”.  To me this suggests that Jaqen doesn’t want Arya to be no-one as he’s offering her the chance to learn how to change her face to help her kill her enemies, the enemies of Arya Stark, not the enemies of no-one.

Jaqen invited Arya to be a FM by telling her she could learn how to kill her enemies.  Why would he then try to get her to forget who she was and become no-one?  Why would he punish her for ticking a name off her list if his initial selling point was for her to accomplish this?

So the idea of Arya becoming the Waif in a Arya Durden plot line just doesn’t make sense to me.  Why offer Arya the chance to kill her enemies and then when she eventually turns up, tell her that she’s not allowed to kill targets other than the ones given to her by the FM, as she has to become no-one?

This bit has never made any sense to me.

Becoming a good assassin means becoming 'no one'. You have to blend in, to make sure you don't get caught. Tywin was reading her back in Harrenhal and she almost got caught. She has to learn to be a good assassin in order to finish her list. I think in the end she will still be Arya (including list), but can become 'no one' (change faces, lie very well, etc.) to take a name of her list.

Assuming that the FM are literally 'no one' and serve 'no one' is understandable, but possible incorrect. There are theories (about the books) that the FM are also working on a plan too! 

[Winter_Is_Coming21]

2 hours ago, Abhijeet Ashtikar said:

The way she was walking was exactly like "Bran" did in his Green dreams with TEdR.. He can do things with his abilities..!! I would like to think this can be a possibility..!! Plus whateve she was doing like giving & taking the money back was right-handed.. We know that the Arya is left-handed on show.. Right?

This can be something.. I re-watched this carefully..

While walking she's looking around as if she's come to some new place & seeing all new things.. That should not happen as she's spent quite a lot of time in Braavos..

And her walk (hands behind n all) WAS like Bran's S06E02 Winterfell dream type!! Can Bran change/do something like that in his dreams? He has a broadband access to past-present-future after all!!

And as rightly pointed o ut the left hand, right hand thing..Better possibility than many non-sensical theories being put forward..

Good observations!

[CJDTrismegistus]

6 minutes ago, Attitude said:

Becoming a good assassin means becoming 'no one'. You have to blend in, to make sure you don't get caught. Tywin was reading her back in Harrenhal and she almost got caught. She has to learn to be a good assassin in order to finish her list. I think in the end she will still be Arya (including list), but can become 'no one' (change faces, lie very well, etc.) to take a name of her list.

Assuming that the FM are literally 'no one' and serve 'no one' is understandable, but possible incorrect. There are theories (about the books) that the FM are also working on a plan too! 

I think that's my problem.  I can't help but think about the FM of the book when watching the show.

Spoiler

Being someone who's totally convinced that Euron paid the FM with a dragon's egg to kill Balon.  And that the FM's plan to use that egg in some way by gaining some sort of knowledge from the book "Blood & Fire" that's locked in the citadel involves Arya.

But is the FM's plan of the books the same as the FM's plan in the show?

[A Time for Starks]

After thinking about it a while, I’m convinced of the Arya = Waif theory.

The theory is that the character Arya (Maisie Williams) on-screen is her Arya identity and the Waif (Faye Marsay) on-screen is Arya’s No One identity.

Here are some of the reasons that I’m buying this theory over the other ones:

As others have mentioned, the waif is only ever seen by Jaqen and Arya. 

The fighting scenes where Arya is blind, the waif just disappears.  The zoomed out shot shows Arya just swinging the staff alone, I believe intended to show what others are seeing of her.

The waif just appears in the acting troupe tent to notice that Arya didn’t poison Lady Crane without anyone else noticing her?  Not believable unless Waif is Arya. 

The show has beaten us over the head (pun intended) with Arya vs. the Waif fighting scenes.  While this shows her training to become a FM, I think more importantly, it also symbolizes her internal struggle/fight of her Arya identity vs. her No One identity.

As others have pointed out the face from S5, E6 is the same as the lady that approaches her and attacks her that eventually turns out to be the waif.  The waif was not in the scene from S5, E6, and so out of thousands of faces, how likely is it that the waif would pick the same face as the one Arya stared at?  It’s not likely.  Instead, that particular face has been imprinted on Arya’s subconscious, and that’s why it’s the face she sees when the waif approaches her.

The stab scene isn’t real in the sense that Arya is not really stabbed in the abdomen.  Instead, I believe this is a metaphor for the No One persona starting to “take over”.  Also, once she is supposedly stabbed and staggering through the market, look at the faces of the people.  Everyone is looking at her as if she is odd and out of place, and not one is looking at her like she is bleeding to death.

Based on this, I believe this is the beginning of the end for the Arya persona.  In the next episode we will see a fight between the waif and Arya, and eventually the waif will kill Arya.  There will be a moment (or perhaps many minutes) of suspense where we’re led to believe that Arya really died.  Then it will finally be revealed that the waif was indeed Arya, and Arya still lives, but now as her No One persona.  Hence the title “No One”.  I think the reveal will likely include flashbacks to familiar scenes of Arya and the waif interacting, but the scenes will be altered to show just Arya.

[Destiel's Child]

1 hour ago, A Time for Starks said:

After thinking about it a while, I’m convinced of the Arya = Waif theory.

The theory is that the character Arya (Maisie Williams) on-screen is her Arya identity and the Waif (Faye Marsay) on-screen is Arya’s No One identity.

Here are some of the reasons that I’m buying this theory over the other ones:

As others have mentioned, the waif is only ever seen by Jaqen and Arya. 

The fighting scenes where Arya is blind, the waif just disappears.  The zoomed out shot shows Arya just swinging the staff alone, I believe intended to show what others are seeing of her.

The waif just appears in the acting troupe tent to notice that Arya didn’t poison Lady Crane without anyone else noticing her?  Not believable unless Waif is Arya. 

The show has beaten us over the head (pun intended) with Arya vs. the Waif fighting scenes.  While this shows her training to become a FM, I think more importantly, it also symbolizes her internal struggle/fight of her Arya identity vs. her No One identity.

As others have pointed out the face from S5, E6 is the same as the lady that approaches her and attacks her that eventually turns out to be the waif.  The waif was not in the scene from S5, E6, and so out of thousands of faces, how likely is it that the waif would pick the same face as the one Arya stared at?  It’s not likely.  Instead, that particular face has been imprinted on Arya’s subconscious, and that’s why it’s the face she sees when the waif approaches her.

The stab scene isn’t real in the sense that Arya is not really stabbed in the abdomen.  Instead, I believe this is a metaphor for the No One persona starting to “take over”.  Also, once she is supposedly stabbed and staggering through the market, look at the faces of the people.  Everyone is looking at her as if she is odd and out of place, and not one is looking at her like she is bleeding to death.

Based on this, I believe this is the beginning of the end for the Arya persona.  In the next episode we will see a fight between the waif and Arya, and eventually the waif will kill Arya.  There will be a moment (or perhaps many minutes) of suspense where we’re led to believe that Arya really died.  Then it will finally be revealed that the waif was indeed Arya, and Arya still lives, but now as her No One persona.  Hence the title “No One”.  I think the reveal will likely include flashbacks to familiar scenes of Arya and the waif interacting, but the scenes will be altered to show just Arya.

So Arya = Tyler Durden?

I do love the theory as it would represent her inner struggle.

[CJDTrismegistus]

12 minutes ago, A Time for Starks said:

As others have pointed out the face from S5, E6 is the same as the lady that approaches her and attacks her that eventually turns out to be the waif.  The waif was not in the scene from S5, E6, and so out of thousands of faces, how likely is it that the waif would pick the same face as the one Arya stared at?  It’s not likely.  Instead, that particular face has been imprinted on Arya’s subconscious, and that’s why it’s the face she sees when the waif approaches her.

I spent ages looking at that face last night and I really don't think it's the same face.  The shape, the nose and the bridge of the eyes are totally different.

[A Time for Starks]

14 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

I spent ages looking at that face last night and I really don't think it's the same face.  The shape, the nose and the bridge of the eyes are totally different.

I can't say with 100% certainty it's the same face.  But to me, after looking at both scenes a few times, it looks like the same face.  I think any minor differences can be attributed to lighting (dark hall of faces vs. broad daylight), and that one face was on an actual living person and the other face was lifeless.

[A Time for Starks]

14 hours ago, ShadowKitteh said:

EDIT: I can't see how Arya & the Waif are the same person. That would mean Arya taught herself, which is silly. If that was possible, she could do that anywhere. She doesn't need the House of B&W.

I also am fully on-board with the Arya = Waif theory.  I don't think that just because they are the same person it means that "Arya taught herself".  There could've been a lot of training that happens off-screen.  The show chose the fight scenes with the waif for a reason, and I think it's very symbolic of her inner struggle of Arya identity and No One identity.

[CJDTrismegistus]

3 minutes ago, A Time for Starks said:

I can't say with 100% certainty it's the same face.  But to me, after looking at both scenes a few times, it looks like the same face.  I think any minor differences can be attributed to lighting (dark hall of faces vs. broad daylight), and that one face was on an actual living person and the other face was lifeless.

OK, so for arguments sake let’s say it is the same face - What does that say about her story?  What does it matter?  Does it support the Arya Durden theory?  I don’t think so.

My thought is that the writers wanted a big shock this episode and that Arya will magically heal herself with some TCP and will be back fit and healthy to parkour her way through Braavos next episode!

I guess I’ve lost a bit of faith in the show writer’s abilities following Dorne!

[ToTheWolves]

8 minutes ago, CJDTrismegistus said:

OK, so for arguments sake let’s say it is the same face - What does that say about her story?  What does it matter?  Does it support the Arya Durden theory?  I don’t think so.

My thought is that the writers wanted a big shock this episode and that Arya will magically heal herself with some TCP and will be back fit and healthy to parkour her way through Braavos next episode!

I guess I’ve lost a bit of faith in the show writer’s abilities following Dorne!

Yea sometimes we do give D&D too much credit.