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TheKingInTheNorth3

Blackfish Stoneheart

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8 hours ago, Illyrio Mo'Parties said:

Yeah... but how do they know that?

The same way Mel and Kinvara know...  They worship the red god.  I'm sure Beric or Thoros has had visions or seen it in the flames.  I trust their readings more than Mel's. 

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2 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

After what we saw in Bravos with A+W and the FM, I'm perfectly willing to agree with you that BF sleeps with the fishes. But I just can't see BF taking on the LCS role even with BD there because BF is not an L and has no connection to AS or SS that routes through LBT.  Plus LBT is going back north with PP, so I don't see her catching up with JL again, let alone getting caught by BF-qua-LCS. How could LCS ever catch LBT now? That ship has sailed.  

 

Damn CW...  You use so many acronyms that it took me 10 minutes trying to figure out who you were talking about...  LCS...  Why not LSH or even Cat?  Or Beric? Or Arya or Sansa?  Or Brienne?  Or Pod?  You really make a person work to read your posts bro. Oh yeah and Thoros in your next post...  I guess that's why your name is CrypticWeirwood huh???  Lol. 

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9 hours ago, LadyAlisande said:


With this show, the simplest (and most boring) explanation of events is usually the correct one. There's no Great Northern Conspiracy; the direwolves are actually dead; and they introduced and killed off Blackfish as a tool to further Jaime Lannister's character, not to finally deliver a version of the LSH plotline.

This encapsulates everything I have felt this season. I cannot count the number of times I have thought, "Oh, there's gotta be something moe to this!", "Oh, there's going to be a big reveal!", "Oh, they're finally going to bring Blah Blah Blah back from the books" etc....

But every time I think there's got to be something more to the simplistic (and often absurd) storyline that has been presented, I am proven wrong (*cough* Arya *cough*) At this point I think I will enjoy the show so much more by just accepting everything at face value and stop waiting for that moment of joy when I am caught of guard by an amazing twist.  For a moment last night I allowed myself the pleasure of thinking that maybe - just maybe - the Blackfish was still alive and would make a crazy comeback, but then I remembered..... Stannis. What's dead is dead. Off screen or not. 

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I dont understand how people are convinced Blackfish is dead. I dont remember the body being shown. He might have been convinced to dive into the river and flee by his nephew like in the books. Edmure can tell Jaime that he fell into the water after the fatal blow, hence no body.

There must be some reason for two episodes of Riverrun?!

But yes, given how they handled Arya's story, it is possible that Riverrun is just more bad storytelling. HBO people are good at writing dialogue, but suck at storytelling whenever GRRM's original plots / outlines are not around.

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Well Blackfish Stoneheart is just as dumb a concept as Coldhands Benjen.

I can't see Beric sacrificing himself for the likes of Blackfish though.   Net zero in the trade

Seems more obvious that the Hound himself is the LSH replacement at least for the time being.  There will suddenly be a a buzz about the brotherhood tearing things up about the riverlands, hanging of Freys. etc.   all will wonder at that.... and low and behold it is another familiar face returned from rumors of death.

Hound can confront Brienne and Jaime just the same.   Brienne has lionhead sword after all

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Sadly i think that the show writers are tying up lose ends.

Blackfish escaped red wedding, kiled him off check.

edmere what can we do with him, send him away. Check.

No lady stone heart, just killing off characters they cant figure out what to do with. 

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9 minutes ago, jugdesh258 said:

Well Blackfish Stoneheart is just as dumb a concept as Coldhands Benjen.

I can't see Beric sacrificing himself for the likes of Blackfish though.   Net zero in the trade

Seems more obvious that the Hound himself is the LSH replacement at least for the time being.  There will suddenly be a a buzz about the brotherhood tearing things up about the riverlands, hanging of Freys. etc.   all will wonder at that.... and low and behold it is another familiar face returned from rumors of death.

Hound can confront Brienne and Jaime just the same.   Brienne has lionhead sword after all

You don't think the Blackfish would want revenge (like LSH in the books)?  I'd be pretty pissed if my home was taken and given to my backstabbing enemies.  And all the same players from the books are converging on the Riverlands at the same time.  So it's really not that crazy to think of LSH getting replaced by the Blackfish for the revenge arc like in the books, albeit with slightly different motives.  But yea, Hound is also a good replacement, but the family ties/oaths thing isn't there which detracts a bit from the narrative (IMO).  Regardless, I really want to see some hanging Freys and Jamie/Brienne cliffhanger.

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2 minutes ago, TheKingInTheNorth3 said:

You don't think the Blackfish would want revenge (like LSH in the books)?  I'd be pretty pissed if my home was taken and given to my backstabbing enemies.  And all the same players from the books are converging on the Riverlands at the same time.  So it's really not that crazy to think of LSH getting replaced by the Blackfish for the revenge arc like in the books, albeit with slightly different motives.  But yea, Hound is also a good replacement, but the family ties/oaths thing isn't there which detracts a bit from the narrative (IMO).  Regardless, I really want to see some hanging Freys and Jamie/Brienne cliffhanger.

Sure who in the seven kingdoms doesn't want revenge.  It could be Hotpie or Coldhands Hotpie.   What is missing in my mind is that Blackfish is not a martyr of Red Wedding like LSH for Beric to consider suitable for sacrifice.   He was out back taking a pee....... not as if things are not written to that standard.   D+D probably run things by focus group of simpletons.

If they wanted to use Blackfish then the Hound need not be there.   He could have a date up north like we expect in the books but it looks like they put Hound in a riverlands holding pattern for time being

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4 minutes ago, jugdesh258 said:

Sure who in the seven kingdoms doesn't want revenge.  It could be Hotpie or Coldhands Hotpie.   What is missing in my mind is that Blackfish is not a martyr of Red Wedding like LSH for Beric to consider suitable for sacrifice.   He was out back taking a pee....... not as if things are not written to that standard.   D+D probably run things by focus group of simpletons.

If they wanted to use Blackfish then the Hound need not be there.   He could have a date up north like we expect in the books but it looks like they put Hound in a riverlands holding pattern for time being

Simpleton focus group is s sure thing.  Can't remember the books but did Beric know it was Catelyn Stark who Nymeria pulled out of the river?  Does it have to be a martyr?  All I'm saying is that since we were robbed of LSH after the Red Wedding and way too much time has passed to bring the character back, that the Blackfish is a plausible substitute to take up the revenge arc/Freys breaking guest right consequences/Jamie and Brienne cliffhanger.  Not sure about the Hound though (in the books he is still on the Quiet Isle) and where he is going (a lot of people think to KL to fight in Cleganebowl).  I'm just pissed how poorly the story has been written/told and how far they've gone away from the source material.  

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In the book Thoros and Beric recognize Cat for sure.   Thoros does not want to bring her back out of respect for her in fear of what she may become in resurrection because she had been dead and in the water too long.   Beric just goes for it, but I do not recall that he may have know the act to be a sacrifice.   As many tales it was mentioned in hindsight in someone else's POV.

I am pretty sure that D&D dropped LSH at the last minute.   At least Lena Headey though she was coming back just after the Red Wedding.   D+D could have just said forget LSH in that comicon appearence just after always but they would not answer and made excuses later on like Michelle F was beneath zombie role.   They did an adequate job in the first three seasons sticking to book plotline but with only seven seasons on the table it was obvious they were falling behind the count of Novels to date.   They have had to desperately write themselves out of that hole since then including the commit and abandonment of that awful dorne story having to tie it up like the end of the Godfather movie.

That is why I think LSH can never come back.   It is an embarrassment epic of Phantom Menace that the writers want to put in rear view mirror.   Anything they could do in attempt to crowbow her back in the story would make things worse.

They are having a terrible time of things this season also.   Eight episodes and things are going nowhere fast.  I doubt they cover Two POV chapter per main character in this upcoming book.  They rush through Jon's resurrection in mechanical fashion and what has the great hero done so far.  ......nothing

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1 minute ago, jugdesh258 said:

In the book Thoros and Beric recognize Cat for sure.   Thoros does not want to bring her back out of respect for her in fear of what she may become in resurrection because she had been dead and in the water too long.   Beric just goes for it, but I do not recall that he may have know the act to be a sacrifice.   As many tales it was mentioned in hindsight in someone else's POV.

I am pretty sure that D&D dropped LSH at the last minute.   At least Lena Headey though she was coming back just after the Red Wedding.   D+D could have just said forget LSH in that comicon appearence just after always but they would not answer and made excuses later on like Michelle F was beneath zombie role.   They did an adequate job in the first three seasons sticking to book plotline but with only seven seasons on the table it was obvious they were falling behind the count of Novels to date.   They have had to desperately write themselves out of that hole since then including the commit and abandonment of that awful dorne story having to tie it up like the end of the Godfather movie.

That is why I think LSH can never come back.   It is an embarrassment epic of Phantom Menace that the writers want to put in rear view mirror.   Anything they could do in attempt to crowbow her back in the story would make things worse.

They are having a terrible time of things this season also.   Eight episodes and things are going nowhere fast.  I doubt they cover Two POV chapter per main character in this upcoming book.  They rush through Jon's resurrection in mechanical fashion and what has the great hero done so far.  ......nothing

It's funny, because D+D were saying how this is the best season they've made.  I mean, we still have 2 episodes to go, but I agree that it has been a trainwreck, especially in the last few episodes. And what's worse, like you point out, is the lack of direction.  It really feels like a dragged out mess that lacks the creativity, innovation, and imagination of seasons 1-3.  I hope the next two episodes make up for the last 3 (I will admit that I enjoyed elements of the first half of the season).  

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7 hours ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I just cannot figure out what they're doing with TOM and BD at this point of the game, even reminding everyone of the latter's sequential resurrections. The only reason has to be for BD to transfer his "life force" to someone, but who?  I say "the only reason" because that's the whole point of BD's existence: to be able to do that.  Otherwise they (meaning DND not TOM) would not have brought BD back.  Of course it can't be LCS now but the argument that it will be either BF or SC doesn't seem sensible either.  It's true that JL is in the area, but that makes no sense, unless he really is AA in the WFTD.

Lol, I need a translator...

I'm not so sure about Thoros and Dondarrion being only resurrection machines, they might just hand around for a while as supporting characters for Sandor's arc, or maybe Arya's later (not sure about Brienne and Jaime, I don't remember if they have an opinion on Lannisters and co. in the show, lol). Also Thoros is a Red God priest and Beric has a flaming sword, there is some potential to push them north, especially after they've already mentioned White Walkers (though I'd sooner expect Beric do die and somebody else taking his swoerd).

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As a reader, I never was a big LSH fan.  Still, if the BF was to become LSH substitute, wouldn't it have made sense to send the Red Woman with Brienne and Pod?  Same Magic, while Thoros & Beric are elsewhere with the Hound. 

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I'm not sure the BF is dead. It would make sense to show him dying defending Riverrun. I assume his soldiers won't kill him because he was the one who defended the castle, so people definitely liked him. He didn't want to go to help Jon and Sansa because of Riverrun, but now as the castle is gone, the BF could be heading North.

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