[Book Spoilers] Jaime & Brienne- What's going on?

[mormont]

4 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

What stastics on marriage in modern western society has to do with this thread?

Not much. Guys, stick to the topic: I have deleted some posts already, don't want to delete more.

[Cron]

Deleted voluntarily.

[Cron]

9 minutes ago, mormont said:

Not much. Guys, stick to the topic: I have deleted some posts already, don't want to delete more.

Oh, sorry.   You posted that mere minutes before I posted my most recent comment, and I did not see what you posted until after I posted.

Based on your post, though, I went back and voluntarily deleted my last post.

 

[Cron]

24 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

 “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.”

    “Oh, I will.” 

And then he goes on to 'give her the sword'...!  At least Nikolaj Coster-Waldau clearly understands the subtext, even if much of the male audience is averse to it... 

This is the full quote of one of them, which I've provided below.  It's heavily laden by GRRM with sexual tension conveyed by the double entendres (to the point of cheesiness; GRRM is practically hitting us over the head with the Jaime-Brienne attraction, but I guess if all you want to see is a 'sword fight,' then that's all you'll see!)

Kissing and kissed again...

'Sparks flew when they came together...Faster, faster, faster...'  I have to laugh...

The dance...

Jaime's attracted to strong women -- or he wouldn't be into Cersei, would he?  He also thinks of Brienne's strength in the Harrenhal bathtub scene, when they're both naked and Brienne catches him in her arms, prompting him to tellingly compare her to Cersei.  His last thought, as he's lying cradled in her arms, before almost passing out is that Brienne is strong but gentler than Cersei.  There's a tenderness between them there.  Anyway, back to the kinky Jaime-Brienne 'foreplay':

The flower blooming...that's so obviously a reference to taking someone's maidenhood, or a woman's menstruation.  Would Jaime be thinking of 'a red flower blossomed on her upper thigh' and 'savoring the sight of her blood' if he were fighting that fair flower Ser Loras rather that Brienne -- ask yourself that?!  If you think I'm stretching credulity, consider that GRRM uses the same technique here:

 

'Fucking instead of fighting...my wife...enough noise to wake a dragon' (when dragons wake, children are conceived...)

GRRM makes his intentions clear and has a lot of fun doing it.

Interesting stuff!

Thanks for taking the time to go through all that!

[Cridefea]

36 minutes ago, mormont said:

Not much. Guys, stick to the topic: I have deleted some posts already, don't want to delete more.

Why mine too?

I repeat what i remember I wrote:

To Cron: You have to give me time cause I have ASoS in english and ADwD and AFfC in italian. There are hints, not direct references. There was also an essay about Jaime and brienne on internet. 

Then I said something else about an interview on the show someone mentioned, but i can't remember 

[ravenous reader]

27 minutes ago, Cron said:

Interesting stuff!

Thanks for taking the time to go through all that!

Sure!

[Meera of Tarth]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

 “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.”

    “Oh, I will.” 

And then he goes on to 'give her the sword'...!  At least Nikolaj Coster-Waldau clearly understands the subtext, even if much of the male audience is averse to it... 

This is the full quote of one of them, which I've provided below.  It's heavily laden by GRRM with sexual tension conveyed by the double entendres (to the point of cheesiness; GRRM is practically hitting us over the head with the Jaime-Brienne attraction, but I guess if all you want to see is a 'sword fight,' then that's all you'll see!)

Kissing and kissed again...

'Sparks flew when they came together...Faster, faster, faster...'  I have to laugh...

The dance...

Jaime's attracted to strong women -- or he wouldn't be into Cersei, would he?  He also thinks of Brienne's strength in the Harrenhal bathtub scene, when they're both naked and Brienne catches him in her arms, prompting him to tellingly compare her to Cersei.  His last thought, as he's lying cradled in her arms, before almost passing out is that Brienne is strong but gentler than Cersei.  There's a tenderness between them there.  Anyway, back to the kinky Jaime-Brienne 'foreplay':

The flower blooming...that's so obviously a reference to taking someone's maidenhood, or a woman's menstruation.  Would Jaime be thinking of 'a red flower blossomed on her upper thigh' and 'savoring the sight of her blood' if he were fighting that fair flower Ser Loras rather that Brienne -- ask yourself that?!  If you think I'm stretching credulity, consider that GRRM uses the same technique here:

 

'Fucking instead of fighting...my wife...enough noise to wake a dragon' (when dragons wake, children are conceived...)

GRRM makes his intentions clear and has a lot of fun doing it.

I always love to re-read these scenes!!! It can be said louder but not clearer!! JB is there since the beginning!

[ravenous reader]

1 minute ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I always love to re-read these scenes!!! It can be said louder but not any clearer!! JB is there since the beginning!

Yes, and don't forget GRRM wrote the screenplay to 'The Lion and the Rose' episode, in which there was that triangulated gaze moment between Cersei, Brienne and Jaime...where Cersei accuses Brienne 'you love him' and Gwendoline and Nikolaj's eyes say the rest.  Then he gave her his sword, armor (according to her measurements, which he got right from memory; he had a good look!) and Pod -- jewellery, chocolate and flowers for a girl like Brienne!

[Meera of Tarth]

8 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Yes, and don't forget GRRM wrote the screenplay to 'The Lion and the Rose' episode, in which there was that triangulated gaze moment between Cersei, Brienne and Jaime...where Cersei accuses Brienne 'you love him' and Gwendoline and Nikolaj's eyes say the rest.  Then he gave her his sword, armor (according to her measurements, which he got right from memory; he had a good look!) and Pod -- jewellery, chocolate and flowers for a girl like Brienne!

Oh yeah! That episode is key to the progression of their story. And the way Brienne looks at Cersei, speechless.

It's funny when Jaime says: "I hope I got your measurements right"-obviously, because when they are together, she has a great effect on him, uncounsiously knows how tall is she, and....her waist, all her woman shape, again (and Cersei is forgotten!)

[ravenous reader]

2 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Oh yeah! That episode is key to the progression of their story. And the way Brienne looks at Cersei, speechless.

It's funny when Jaime says: "I hope I got your measurements right"-obviously, because when they are together, she has a great effect on him, uncounsiously knows how tall is she, and....her waist, all her woman shape, again (and Cersei is forgotten!)

My favorite line has to go to Loras though, after Jaime has smugly told him 'you will never marry Cersei,' to which Loras quips, slapping him on the back, 'and neither will you'!

[Meera of Tarth]

4 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

My favorite line has to go to Loras though, after Jaime has smugly told him 'you will never marry Cersei,' to which Loras quips, slapping him on the back, 'and neither will you'!

Sure!! And it's the best thing that could happen to him: never -ever-marry Cersei!

I said before this was one of my favourites...but I think I like them all, honestly. When he is rejecting Cersei, finally, is also a good moment, especially when, while doing that, defends Brienne's name in front of other people in the Riverlands.

[ravenous reader]

14 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Sure!! And it's the best thing that could happen to him: never -ever-marry Cersei!

I said before this was one of my favourites...but I think I like them all, honestly. When he is rejecting Cersei, finally, is also a good moment, especially when, while doing that, defends Brienne's name in front of other people in the Riverlands.

I'm not sure he's totally rejected Cersei, though.  He does say he'll do anything to get back to her.  Although, one might read that scene between Jaime and Edmure differently.  When Jaime repeats his ominous catchphrase 'the things we do for love,' some have suggested he may have been thinking of Brienne rather than Cersei necessarily.  He knows Brienne is in that castle; the last thing she said to him was that if he attacked, she'd have to fight him to the death (which caused him obvious emotional pain -- I can't say it enough, NCW is such an outstanding actor and his scenes with Gwendoline are among the best ever; they are enough to elevate any episode to the level of all-time favorite)-- I think Jaime will do and say anything 'for love', just not to have to risk having to fight against Brienne.  However, I don't think theirs will have a happy ending. Eventually, they will be on opposite sides, facing off against each other in the 'great war to come' and she -- not he -- will have to make the choice between love and duty (their arcs having come full circle, standing in Jaime's shoes, as it were, she'll finally have complete empathy with the man she once scathingly looked down on as 'kingslayer'). 

[Meera of Tarth]

15 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

 

Quote

I'm not sure he's totally rejected Cersei, though.  He does say he'll do anything to get back to her.  Although, one might read that scene between Jaime and Edmure differently.  When Jaime repeats his ominous catchphrase 'the things we do for love,' some have suggested he may have been thinking of Brienne rather than Cersei necessarily.  He knows Brienne is in that castle; the last thing she said to him was that if he attacked, she'd have to fight him to the death (which caused him obvious emotional pain -- I can't say it enough, NCW is such an outstanding actor and his scenes with Gwendoline are among the best ever; they are enough to elevate any episode to the level of all-time favorite)-- I think Jaime will do and say anything 'for love', just not to have to risk having to fight against Brienne.

I was referring to the books only. In the show, the process will start in 7x01 (if I am good with my predictions).

About that sentence.....I think this is his phrase with Cersei-he says that in the Pilot when he....pushes Bran out of the window I always associate this with the bad Jaime. And that, along with  his mention of Cersei, is the part I didn't like with him talking with Edmure (although I know he was playing Kingslayer).

However, there have been an evolution in Jaime, so now, he might say this phrase because he willingly wants to play Kingslayer, but doesn't feel it. I wonder if we'll see Jaime saying that to Brienne one time.

Anyway, Brienne and Jaime's sentence, IMO is" We don't get to chose who we love, and I prefer that one.

Their scenes together are always priceless. IMO they can save any bad episode just with them there.

Quote

15 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

 However, I don't think theirs will have a happy ending. Eventually, they will be on opposite sides, facing off against each other in the 'great war to come' and she -- not he -- will have to make the choice between love and duty (their arcs having come full circle, standing in Jaime's shoes, as it were, she'll finally have complete empathy with the man she once scathingly looked down on as 'kingslayer'). 

I'd like to be positive, but the idea of a possible "star-crossed" romance after something huge and happy happening between them (it is foreshadowed!) stays on my mind....

however, I don't think they will have to be antagonists, it's a possibility, but I think it won't happen...

[Cridefea]

5 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Jaime notices she has real beautiful eyes, he thinks of sex after their fight whenthey're captured by the Bloody Mummers (she looks like they've just had been fucking), and he gets an erection when she steps out of the bath in Harrenhal and he sees her blonde bush. His eyes may say "not a beautiful woman" but his sword says otherwise. All those quotes can be found in aSoS.

And 

Quote

Now leave us," Jaime said when his clothes lay in a pile on the wet stone floor. "My lady of Tarth doesn't want the likes of you scum gaping at her teats.

4 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

 “Give me the sword, Kingslayer.”

    “Oh, I will.” 

And then he goes on to 'give her the sword'...!  At least Nikolaj Coster-Waldau clearly understands the subtext, even if much of the male audience is averse to it... 

 

LoL I have a lot fun of reading this too. Add:

Quote

"I have a gift for you." He reached down under the Lord Commander's chair and brought it out,
wrapped in folds of crimson velvet.
Brienne approached as if the bundle was like to bite her, reached out a huge freckled hand, and flipped back a fold of cloth. Rubies
glimmered in the light. She picked the treasure up gingerly, curled her fingers around the leather grip, and slowly slid the sword
free of its scabbard.

 

8 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I know the question was for @Cridefea but I wanted to share one of my favourite moments in the books on that topic:

This is in Jaime's dream, the one that makes him return to Harrenhall to save Brienne. When they meet he says: "I dreamed of you".

There are more, with Ser Hyle Hunt, for instance.

In the show they kind of showed it (woman's shape) in the Bath scene, but considering Brienne's haircut is more androgynous than the one she has in the books, and we always see her with the armour, I think the Tormund scene helped people to remind them that Brienne is a woman with a sexual appeal.

ETA: @Cridefea , I just posted at the same time you did, so I didn't read your comment before!

And few lines below

Quote

She put a hand on his shoulder, and he trembled at the sudden touch. She's warm.

I add some other quotes in Asos

Provoking

Quote

Do you deny your sex? If so, unlace those breeches and show me." He gave her an innocent smile. "I'd ask you to open your

bodice, but from the look of you that wouldn't prove much."

Cersei parallelism:

Quote

He amused himself by picturing her in one of Cersei's silken gowns in place of her studded leather jerkin. As well dress a cow in silk as this one.

Quote

Care for a bath, Brienne?" He laughed. "You're a maiden and there's the pool. I'll wash your back." He used to scrub Cersei's back, when they were children together at Casterly Rock

and in bath scene 

Quote

she was strong, and gentler than he would have thought. Gentler than Cersei, he thought as she helped him from the tub, his legs wobbly as a limp cock.

Bear pit

Quote

"Brienne, the maid of Tarth. You are still maiden, I hope?" Her broad homely face turned red. "Yes." "Oh, good," Jaime said. "I only rescue maidens."

Back in KL

Quote

Someone had dressed her in woman's clothes again, but this dress fit much better than that hideous pink rag the goat had made her wear. "Blue is a good color on you, my lady," Jaime observed. "It goes well with your eyes." She does have astonishing eyes. Brienne glanced down at herself, flustered. "Septa Donyse padded out the bodice, to give it that shape. She said you sent her to me."

In AFfC

Brienne and Tarly about the challange in Renly's camp.

Quote

"They were knights," she said, stunned, "anointed knights." "And honorable men. The blame is yours." The accusation made her flinch. "I would never … my lord, I did nought to encourage them." "Your being here encouraged them."

Connington and Jaime (this one is a bit sick)

Quote

"Is it true the wench fought naked?" "Naked? No." He wondered how that wrinkle had been added to the story.

Jaime somehow connecting sexual thoughts and Brienne aka GRRM is mocking us

Quote

Jaime was uncomfortably aware of the curve of hip and breast beneath her roughspun brown dress. He found himself remembering the things that Pia had whispered to him at Harrenhal, the night that Qyburn sent her to his bed. Sometimes when I’m with some man, she’d said, I close my eyes and pretend it’s you on top of me.
He was grateful when the bath was deep enough to conceal his arousal. As he lowered himself into the steaming water, he recalled another bath, the one he’d shared with Brienne. He had been feverish and weak from loss of blood, and the heat had made him so dizzy he found himself saying things better left unsaid. This time he had no such excuse. Remember your vows.

 

Quote

He had commanded Ser Addam Marbrand to search the Street of Silk. “Look under every bed, you know how fond my brother is of brothels.” The gold cloaks would find more of interest beneath the whores’ skirts than beneath their beds. He wondered how many bastard children would be born of the pointless search. Unbidden, his thoughts went to Brienne of Tarth.

There are more, by Hunt too. But couldn't find right know.

[Le Cygne]

Hyle Hunt said her lips were made for kissing... GRRM plays up her beautiful eyes and full lips.

[Le Cygne]

18 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

however, I don't think they will have to be antagonists, it's a possibility, but I think it won't happen...

I think his dream of her hints that they will be on the same side. When everyone else forsakes him, she will be there. (Naked and with a sword, just saying. )

Quote

“I swore to keep you safe,” the wench said stubbornly. “I swore an oath.” Naked, she raised her hands to Jaime. "Ser. Please. If you would be so good."...

In this light she could almost be a beauty, he thought. In this light she could almost be a knight. Brienne's sword took flame as well, burning a silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more...

She was as tall and strong as he remembered, yet it seemed to Jaime that she had more of a woman’s shape now...

"Listen." She put a hand on his shoulder, and he trembled at the sudden touch. She's warm...

"I will fight you one by one or all together. But who is there for the wench to duel? She gets cross when you leave her out."...

Then his sword went dark, and only Brienne's burned, as the ghosts came rushing in...

 

[Cridefea]

4 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

Hyle Hunt said her lips were made for kissing... GRRM plays up her beautiful eyes and full lips.

Exactly, and Jaime talks about kisses too 

 

5 minutes ago, Le Cygne said:

I think his dream of her hints that they will be on the same side. When everyone else forsakes him, she will be there. (Naked and with a sword, just saying. )

[Le Cygne]

Indeed. Come, curse me, or kiss me, or call me a liar... You ought to be blowing me kisses, wench...

Oh and the swords kissing, too...

[Darksky]

Jaime and Brienne might have a brief fling but the endgame OTP (in the show at least) has been 'foreshadowed'

^This is the original scene, they kinda played it down in the final cut though. Didn't want to give it away so soon eh? Brienne looks unsure but it's just her playing hard to get. She's not used to being courted but will come to appreciate the attention. Edd knows what's up  So unexpected, so unlikely, so lovely.

In the books, yeah it's headed towards Jaime x Brienne as overused, generic star-crossed lovers/beauty and the beast theme.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

I'm not sure he's totally rejected Cersei, though.  He does say he'll do anything to get back to her.  Although, one might read that scene between Jaime and Edmure differently.  When Jaime repeats his ominous catchphrase 'the things we do for love,' some have suggested he may have been thinking of Brienne rather than Cersei necessarily.  He knows Brienne is in that castle; the last thing she said to him was that if he attacked, she'd have to fight him to the death (which caused him obvious emotional pain -- I can't say it enough, NCW is such an outstanding actor and his scenes with Gwendoline are among the best ever; they are enough to elevate any episode to the level of all-time favorite)-- I think Jaime will do and say anything 'for love', just not to have to risk having to fight against Brienne.  However, I don't think theirs will have a happy ending. Eventually, they will be on opposite sides, facing off against each other in the 'great war to come' and she -- not he -- will have to make the choice between love and duty (their arcs having come full circle, standing in Jaime's shoes, as it were, she'll finally have complete empathy with the man she once scathingly looked down on as 'kingslayer'). 

Jaime is bluffing Edmure, period.

I could support this in a number of ways, but the bottom line is that Jaime starts out by trying to make a friendly connection with Edmure (the "real" Jaime, the reformed Jaime), but Edmure throws it back in Jaime's face over and over, so as a result Jaime uses "political judo" by using Edmure's belief that Jaime is a monster AGAINST him, thereby getting exactly what Jaime wants (Riverrun) without breaking Jaime's oath(s) to Cat, and in the process also giving Brienne exactly what she wanted (i.e., her request that Jaime take Riverrun, if at all,, without bloodshed).

In my view, the scene between Edmure and Jaime in that episode is one of Jaime's finest moments in the entire series.  (Right up there with when he rescues Brienne from the bear, the scene where he has his hand chopped off, and the scene where he is in the bath with Brienne and talks about the truth behind the Mad King)