Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 9 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said: She didn't sacrifice a minor force to secure a victory - pretty much the entire Stark army got slaughtered almost including her brother and commander in chief. This was no Green Fork. The perfect moment was waaaaaaay before it actually happwned. And Ramsay was already out in the open field and ready to engage them before a single Stark soldier died. she did sacrifice the minor for for the victory, and her brother and commander in chief is well and living, it was the good result, and at first ramsay army was prepared to any frontal attack, she made her attack when it was busy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: believe me, she fought this war as much as jon, and for the wildlings they will die in CB if they didn't die in WF, they are already dead, your official stark army is as miserable as Reek, it was a tool, she used this tool, I bet that you didn't care when Stannis killed 90% of the wildlings She does not use them. In fact, she does not need them in the first place. She only needs to wait for the Vale to come. Letting those wildings die is a stupid move. She is the stupidest of them all. If she had told Jon and the wildings to wait for the vale in the first place, after the battle she can still have the wildings under her command. She does not take into account that, Vale army is not hers, so after they left, she will be left with no army because she technically let them die all. LOLL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maid So Fair Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: she did sacrifice the minor for for the victory, and her brother and commander in chief is well and living, it was the good result, and at first ramsay army was prepared to any frontal attack, she made her attack when it was busy Sacrificing your entire army is not minor and never can be. Jon is only alive because of dumb luck/plot armour/newly acquired arrow repellent. Yep, Ramsay was already prepared to attack, outside WF, and preoccupied with the battle. This was pretty much the case since the battle started. There was absolutely no reason to wait until everybody was pretty much dead before striking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 11 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: she did sacrifice the minor for for the victory, and her brother and commander in chief is well and living, it was the good result, and at first ramsay army was prepared to any frontal attack, she made her attack when it was busy 2 She does not sacrifice anything for the greater, she just let them die in vain, period. She was just selfish and distrustful. She knows she will have to pay LF (and even the Vale) back. They do not come for free. While the shitty army that she hates are actually for free. Jon was lucky to live because ha the god still needs him to fight WW. Actually the smirk Sansa showed when the Vale came might indicate she was willing to let Jon and his whole supporters die. She did not care. She only wanted to kill Ramsay and that's all. The stupidity from this is that, without any family and army to back up, she would become a puppet again after Ramsay dies. She was just blinded by her hatred to revenge and care nothing about the after. She does not have only one enemy that is Ramsy, stupid girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Chib said: She does not use them. In fact, she does not need them in the first place. She only needs to wait for the Vale to come. Letting those wildings die is a stupid move. She is the stupidest of them all. If she had told Jon and the wildings to wait for the vale in the first place, after the battle she can still have the wildings under her command. She does not take into account that, Vale army is not hers, so after they left, she will be left with no army because she technically let them die all. LOLL if you say that she came too late and she didn't have the intention to let them die so it's a good thing, and the wildlings made allegiance to Jon not sansa (it's in the show!) and they are free folk, no one can command them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Winter Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 One thing I noticed during the Ramsay death scene, was that it was snowing/just started to snow when it happened. It's a bit hard to see, because of how dark everything is filmed. I thought it was a nice metaphor for Sansa's arc, and overall, the things to come...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Queen of Winter said: One thing I noticed during the Ramsay death scene, was that it was snowing/just started to snow when it happened. It's a bit hard to see, because of how dark everything is filmed. I thought it was a nice metaphor for Sansa's arc, and overall, the things to come...... Dark and ruthless Sansa, I will love that if it never happened, the starks need someone intelligent and ruthless, a tywin of the family, they are too soft with their ideals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 12 minutes ago, Maid So Fair said: Sacrificing your entire army is not minor and never can be. Jon is only alive because of dumb luck/plot armour/newly acquired arrow repellent. Yep, Ramsay was already prepared to attack, outside WF, and preoccupied with the battle. This was pretty much the case since the battle started. There was absolutely no reason to wait until everybody was pretty much dead before striking. Dear friend, we all know that the wildlings will die either way, it's causality of war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: if you say that she came too late and she didn't have the intention to let them die so it's a good thing, and the wildlings made allegiance to Jon not sansa (it's in the show!) and they are free folk, no one can command them She did not come too late. The reason they're late because she did not tell Jon about the Vale and did not tell him to wait. It is not a good thing. It was the result of distrust and stupidity. The wildlings might be a horrible army, but they were willing to use the Stark name, so technically they're her army also. Letting your whole army die because you distrust their ability is the worst. If she distrusts their ability, do not let them go into the battle in the first place because in her eyes they're technically useless. She only needs to tell them: "Go away, I will ask the Vale, they're more useful!" The thing is, the Vale could have won back WF for her without Jon and the wildlings. That's why the whole scene of withholding the information from Jon is the same as sending them all to death while knowing that you do not need them to win. It is shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Dear friend, we all know that the wildlings will die either way, it's causality of war Dear Sansa fanatic, we all know Sansa does not need the Wildings in the first place as long as Vale agrees to kill of Ramsay for her. They're much better fighter and they're double the size of Ramsay's army. What Sansa did was distrust the army what agreed to fight for her family's name, and let them die unnecessarily. The thing is, she knows before the battle that only Vale army could help her, and there is no need for Jon and the wildlings to fight, they might just stay longer for the Vale to come and finish the battle. If you think that she let the wildlings die on purpose for the greater cause, then it is even more stupid. She does not have many supporters in the first place. In your logic, she just does not care about how many people will die for her as long as she wins only one battle against one enemy. Dear that is a wrong more. People will see that and they will not fight for her once other enemies come. Especially that she does not even fight herself. That's a stupid move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Dark and ruthless Sansa, I will love that if it never happened, the starks need someone intelligent and ruthless, a tywin of the family, they are too soft with their ideals This shows your characteristic, justice is very important for me, justice for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, Chib said: She does not sacrifice anything for the greater, she just let them die in vain, period. She was just selfish and distrustful. She knows she will have to pay LF (and even the Vale) back. They do not come for free. While the shitty army that she hates are actually for free. Jon was lucky to live because ha the god still needs him to fight WW. Actually the smirk Sansa showed when the Vale came might indicate she was willing to let Jon and his whole supporters die. She did not care. She only wanted to kill Ramsay and that's all. The stupidity from this is that, without any family and army to back up, she would become a puppet again after Ramsay dies. She was just blinded by her hatred to revenge and care nothing about the after. She does not have only one enemy that is Ramsy, stupid girl. I don't think she was thinking about letting Jon die, if she really wanted him dead then why she didn't wait longer to make sure that the boltons killed everybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, yakisikli123 said: This shows your characteristic, justice is very important for me, justice for everyone. believe me, I love the story but I'm really fed up with the dumbness of the starks, they need some changes in their mentality, Sansa is a good start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lakin1013 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 11 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Dark and ruthless Sansa, I will love that if it never happened, the starks need someone intelligent and ruthless, a tywin of the family, they are too soft with their ideals I just wanted to remind all that we still have Arya Stark, a trained killer. I do believe Arya can put Sansa to shame in terms of intelligence and ruthlessness, but still with a heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: I don't think she was thinking about letting Jon die, if she really wanted him dead then why she didn't wait longer to make sure that the boltons killed everybody? The Boltons were already killing everyone at that moment. You think Sansa saw through that Jon was alive under that pile of bodies? I am not surprised she was like: "Oh, maybe Jon is dead, ok, whatever, I have the Vale army here! Horray! Die Ramsay!" The issue is, she is becoming like Cersei, dark, cunning and whiny and more stupid than she thinks she is. In her mind it was only: "RAMSAY MUST DIE!! AT ALL COST! PEOPLE DIE WHO CARE!" A good leader never sees just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 2 minutes ago, lakin1013 said: I just wanted to remind all that we still have Arya Stark, a trained killer. I do believe Arya can put Sansa to shame in terms of intelligence and ruthlessness, but still with a heart. yes, you are right, Starks need another way of thinking, the old starks' way didn't work very well with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chib Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 16 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Dark and ruthless Sansa, I will love that if it never happened, the starks need someone intelligent and ruthless, a tywin of the family, they are too soft with their ideals The new Cersei Stark who might end up harming her own family just because she wants to manipulate people in her way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future Null Infinity Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Chib said: The issue is, she is becoming like Cersei, dark, cunning and whiny and more stupid than she thinks she is. In her mind it was only: "RAMSAY MUST DIE!! AT ALL COST! PEOPLE DIE WHO CARE!" And I love that, she was thinking dumb like the other starks, the result : she got raped, it's time for the wolves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen of Winter Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said: Dark and ruthless Sansa, I will love that if it never happened, the starks need someone intelligent and ruthless, a tywin of the family, they are too soft with their ideals Well, it's really more about her becoming more "Stark-like". In the beginning, she was enamored with the South and everything in it. Wanted to be a "true southron lady". It's only now, after everything bad has happened to her and her family, had everything taken away from her--does she realize the importance of family/where you come from and is now willing to fight to get her home back. I do think it'll be interesting to see what they decide to do with the other "formerly loyal" houses that refused to help House Stark. Granted, the dead are coming, so there probably won't be too much time left to deal with the squabbles of men........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisikli123 Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 9 minutes ago, lakin1013 said: I just wanted to remind all that we still have Arya Stark, a trained killer. I do believe Arya can put Sansa to shame in terms of intelligence and ruthlessness, but still with a heart. Then we can see ruthless Starks and ruthless Daenerys and ruthless KL guys against Jon Targaryen, who wants justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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