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BlackwaterPark

Jon IS a deserter of the Night's Watch

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20 minutes ago, Zoo_Dane said:

It's rather apparent how he'll get around desertion in the books 

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Robb likely legitimized Jon in his will 

In the show I'd imagine that people will continually bring up that he's a deserter and but will not be in any position to do anything about it (Boltons were but Jon won and there's no major houses in the north to enforce his execution). 

Of course no one is going to care whether he's technically a deserter or not when the WW show up. 

Spoiler

Removing his bastard status doesn't really free him from the NW, just gives him a shot at becoming Lord of Winterfell in case Westeros forgets about his desertion due to an alleged death and posterior resurrection of which there's no proof.

 

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6 minutes ago, BlackwaterPark said:
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Removing his bastard status doesn't really free him from the NW, just gives him a shot at becoming Lord of Winterfell in case Westeros forgets about his desertion due to an alleged death and posterior resurrection of which there's no proof.

 

Just to continue a conversation in spoilers 

Spoiler

No one had ever been released from their Kingsguard Vows until Barristan (and now Jamie in the show). 

I would assume Robb legitimizing Jon also comes with him being released from his Nights Watch vows. And if anyone were able to set that precedent it would be a King in the North.

Either he's released from the vows in that way (book or show I guess). Or the WW invasion causes people to ignore his desertion as they need his leadership/knowledge to fight for human survival. 

I don't believe anyone other than the present NW and Wildlings would ever believe that he was resurrected to release him from his vows. 

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10 minutes ago, RhaeBee said:

Nobody cares. They are war with the dead and the white walkers. Everybody has better things to worry about than whether Jon should be considered a deserter or his death releases from his vows. Nor should they care. This is not the time to worry about petty things like Jon the most suitable leader to fight the white walkers breaking some Night's Watch code. 

 

But hey maybe Lady Cersei Stark will care! And she wil behead Jon for deserting to make sure he is no threat to her claim to Winterfell. 

Who is Cersei Stark?

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Who is Cersei Stark?

Sandra, the player.

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9 minutes ago, adamr said:

Sandra, the player.

We're just going fanfic with characters now?  What about "Jiim"?  Jon's bastard twin brother?

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Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

We're just going fanfic with characters now?  What about "Jiim"?  Jon's bastard twin brother?

It's just an allusion to how Sansa learnt from Cersei about using everyone and playing them. And Sandra is what Lyanna Mormont called her in one of previous episodes.

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1 minute ago, adamr said:

It's just an allusion to how Sansa learnt from Cersei about using everyone and playing them. And Sandra is what Lyanna Mormont called her in one of previous episodes.

;)

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14 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Who is Cersei Stark?

The new and empowered "boss ass bitch" Sansa who knows how to play the game and "use her sexuality" to get ahead. In short: 

13 minutes ago, adamr said:

Sandra, the player.

*quotes by Sophie Turner

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1 hour ago, AGS Martell said:

"[...] I shall live and die at my post [...] I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch [...]"

He lived and he died at his post. That life of his has ended, so there's no desertion.

Again...  no one knows this though.  And who would believe it?  They don't even believe the White Walkers exist.  Why would they believe he died and came back to life so he's free of his vow?

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2 hours ago, BlackwaterPark said:

Mormont and Glover. Though I'm thinking more of future accusations. The Vale, the rest of the northern houses that now know an army led by a deserter took back Winterfell... pretty much everyone who wasn't there to see the resurrection. 

 

As I said, I'm good with that, I like the loophole even though it's arguable. Jon Snow can desert knowing he died by the hand of his subordinates, but you still have a whole kingdom where resurrections are not something you see every day to believe you.

Ah, yeah the vale part should be interesting.  I hope they get into that next episode.  

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Just now, Noveson said:

Ah, yeah the vale part should be interesting.  I hope they get into that next episode.  

There are 2 ways this will happen:

1) the North and whole Westeros will ignore the whole resurrection totally. After all their king (Tommen) will die soon and whole KL will be burned. There will be no king to ensure any law at all.

2) there will be huge talk all around Westeros that Ned's bastard is the man who beat death and he has taken back Winterfell. And Jon will be mentioned as The undead king etc lol

I think it (1) will happen. Most of Westeros will ignore it. 

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2 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

There are 2 ways this will happen:

1) the North and whole Westeros will ignore the whole resurrection totally. After all their king (Tommen) will die soon and whole KL will be burned. There will be no king to ensure any law at all.

2) there will be huge talk all around Westeros that Ned's bastard is the man who beat death and he has taken back Winterfell. And Jon will be mentioned as The undead king etc lol

I think it (1) will happen. Most of Westeros will ignore it. 

I think it'll be a combination.  Maybe whispers around the south, but not a big deal.  But I think it will be HUGE in the north.  Bolton even mentioned his rumors about how sword skills, now his legend is going to be massive.  Stuff like killing hundreds in teh fight, winning an imipossible battle, being brought back to life, riding a giant wolf into battle etc

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1 minute ago, Noveson said:

I think it'll be a combination.  Maybe whispers around the south, but not a big deal.  But I think it will be HUGE in the north.  Bolton even mentioned his rumors about how sword skills, now his legend is going to be massive.  Stuff like killing hundreds in teh fight, winning an imipossible battle, being brought back to life, riding a giant wolf into battle etc

Well I am sure they will talk about Vale army saving the day loll, so I am not sure about Jon's reputation. 

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3 hours ago, BlackwaterPark said:

 

Yeah, of course. I'm talking about his possible allies, not about he who was already his enemy. Lady Mormont ignored it, Lord Glover rejected them but seemed to overlook that as well. And now there's the rest of the Northern houses to accept that Winterfell was taken back by an army led by a deserter of the Night's Watch.

This is a good point. The wildlings and Littlefinger wouldnt care, but Lady Mormont and Lord Glover definitely would. As would the other houses. And few would believe that he died and came back to life.

I hope they will address this. Luckily though it won't be Jon Snow taking the throne in the North, it will be Sansa Stark. Maybe Jon will go back north soon after the battle.

Hopefully Jon will find a way to show the northern houses that the dead are coming, which will make everything else irrelevant to them.

EDIT: The houses will raven the Night's Watch, and the new NW commander ravens back that yeah, Jon died all right, so he's off the hook.

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If i have a heart attack and clinically die before being resucitated, does this mean I can leave my wife without divorcing her?

 

The vow was "till death us do part"

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25 minutes ago, Quyen Thuy Tran said:

Well I am sure they will talk about Vale army saving the day loll, so I am not sure about Jon's reputation. 

Doubt it.  Did we ever hear about Howland saving Ned when he dueled Arthur Dayne?  Nope.  The legend that wil lbe passed around is that Ned Stark's bastard came back from the dead, has a giant direwolf pet, won a battle with horrible odds, has giant friends, killed a 100 men himself, etc

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29 minutes ago, Jarl Halstein said:

Luckily though it won't be Jon Snow taking the throne in the North, it will be Sansa Stark.

Not so sure about this if certain rumors are to be believed.

Spoiler

And it should be pointed out that the source of those rumors has been spot on about everything else they said regarding this season.

 

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