Will there be a great council ?

[Shireen Purratheon]

41 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

My premise opened with the assumption Tommen dies.  I understand the circumstances for calling a great council.   I recently read some research that determined Cersei would actually be Tommen's heir.  That's a frightening prospect.  

That's going through the Baratheon line. Robert's claim to the throne is (ostensibly) through his grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen and attainting the line of Aerys II. We can assume Stannis and Shireen are thrown out for rebelling against the crown. We can allow claim to pass through the female line because Robert's claim passed through Rhaelle. So Tommen's heir is Myrcella. Who comes next?

Aerion Brightflame's son Maegor was passed over in a great council, negating his hypothetical descendants. Ditto Daeron's daughter Vaella. The claim of Jaeherys' line and Rhaelle's line comes from Aegon the Unlikely, but there's no descendants left with a claim. Next comes Maekar's older daughter Daella, then her sister Rhae. We know both of them married and had children, but we don't know who they married or who their children became.

The next lineage we can trace is through Maron Martell and Daenerys Targaryen. It's not confirmed that the current Martell family descends from them, but his son succeeded him as prince, then maybe that son's daughter was the princess who was Doran's mother. Or some such.

Thus:

1. Tommen
2. Myrcella
3. Daella's primogeniture
4. Rhae's primogeniture
5. Doran
6. Arianne
7. Quentyn
8. Trystane

Now, this is disregarding the true parentage of Tommen and Myrcella. Legally, however, Myrcella and Trystane's betrothal unites two of the four most recent surviving branches.

The next line after this would descend from Daemon Blackfyre, assuming his legitimization was legal. Now, Maelys' death seems to count this out, but if there were anymore hanging around, they would come after the Martell line.

After this comes House Plumm, descending from Elaena Targaryen's first son. We can't say for certain whether whether the line of House Penrose comes from her descendants.

If my reading of the tree is correct, the next line comes from House Velaryon via Baela Targaryen's marriage to Alyn Oakenfist. The next claim would come from the primogeniture of Rhaena Targaryen's six daughters with Garmund Hightower.

[Nevets]

On 6/28/2016 at 10:48 AM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Roberts eldest male heir married into a noble family to unite different factions.

Gendry is unknown, unacknowledged, uneducated, and has shown no leadership capabilities whatsoever.  No way is he going to be selected to run anything bigger than a smithy.

I think that a Great Council could potentially be convened, especially if both Jon and Daenerys are dead.  Also, there is the possibility of several Great Houses being wiped out, or having only small children remaining, so there might be a need to determine replacements and/or regents.  

[Curled Finger]

@House Beaudreau can't quote again.   History clearly shows there is no way any Great Council is going to allow a queen in Westeros.   I'll admit I was a little carried away thinking Myrcella was already dead, but it doesn't change the fact that no woman will be allowed by all the men running the show in Westeros to rule.   Even if living Myrcella was to be considered she is betrothed to a Martell.  Is anyone going to allow a male Martell to rule all Westeros?  Particularly in light of a female Martell as heir to Dorne?  I'm thinking there is no way these great full of themselves Lords would allow Dorne a power block like that.    Not with their lands, legends, customs and predjudices in place.   The Targaryan hold was reasonably secure when the future king was married to a female Martell and the children of the union were raised in Kings Landing.    Myrcella is actually being fostered in Dorne.  

I understand the logic of throwing Myrcella's name out, but a GC would be called with a quickness if she was the only option available.   

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

That's going through the Baratheon line. Robert's claim to the throne is (ostensibly) through his grandmother Rhaelle Targaryen and attainting the line of Aerys II. We can assume Stannis and Shireen are thrown out for rebelling against the crown. We can allow claim to pass through the female line because Robert's claim passed through Rhaelle. So Tommen's heir is Myrcella. Who comes next?

Aerion Brightflame's son Maegor was passed over in a great council, negating his hypothetical descendants. Ditto Daeron's daughter Vaella. The claim of Jaeherys' line and Rhaelle's line comes from Aegon the Unlikely, but there's no descendants left with a claim. Next comes Maekar's older daughter Daella, then her sister Rhae. We know both of them married and had children, but we don't know who they married or who their children became.

The next lineage we can trace is through Maron Martell and Daenerys Targaryen. It's not confirmed that the current Martell family descends from them, but his son succeeded him as prince, then maybe that son's daughter was the princess who was Doran's mother. Or some such.

Thus:

1. Tommen
2. Myrcella
3. Daella's primogeniture
4. Rhae's primogeniture
5. Doran
6. Arianne
7. Quentyn
8. Trystane

Now, this is disregarding the true parentage of Tommen and Myrcella. Legally, however, Myrcella and Trystane's betrothal unites two of the four most recent surviving branches.

The next line after this would descend from Daemon Blackfyre, assuming his legitimization was legal. Now, Maelys' death seems to count this out, but if there were anymore hanging around, they would come after the Martell line.

After this comes House Plumm, descending from Elaena Targaryen's first son. We can't say for certain whether whether the line of House Penrose comes from her descendants.

If my reading of the tree is correct, the next line comes from House Velaryon via Baela Targaryen's marriage to Alyn Oakenfist. The next claim would come from the primogeniture of Rhaena Targaryen's six daughters with Garmund Hightower.

That Baratheon claim is secondary to the actual conquest as you mention.   I'm dubious that Targaryan blood would enter into a contest for the throne this far down the line when considering the Baratheon kings.    With all those options there is no way Myrcella would be permitted to rule.   And I will stand behind my original statement that no one likes Stannis.   I appreciate the thought you put into this and there is a very reasonable logic to all of it.   Nonetheless, this is control of the Iron Throne we are discussing.   Even the Targs, in uncontested supreme power, couldn't help their constituents' greed and shortsightedness.   I recently enjoyed a reread of TPATQ.  If there is a single lesson to be learned at the human level of that tale, it is that the people in power want to keep it, no matter what entire councils or kingdoms decree.     

[Angus Thermopyle]

I think a council is a very good possibility. Jaime has been set up to be the new Criston Cole, the king maker. Not sure which way he would go but Sansa may be his choice in the end, if she is still alive. 

[aryagonnakill#2]

20 hours ago, House Beaudreau said:

But no one knows that Gendry is Roberts bastard. And even if they did, Hes still a lowborn bastard. Edric Storm might be a possibility because he has royalty on both sides and Robert actually acknowledged him because the mother was a maiden. But if it takes a King to Legitimize a bastard and if they're a great council no one who be able to legit Gendry or Edric. 

Second. It doesn't seem very likely that Gendry or Arya would come forward to make a claim at a great council. I like the Idea of it but its a fairy tale. 

I don't think they would be the ones to put the claim forth, I think someone else would do it for them.  Just looking at the candidates that would be available, there might be Edric, perhaps someone will try to marry Mya Stone, any Martell could claim Targ descent, I think the Tarths can to, but I feel like any candidate I can think of would only have the support of 1 region and things would threaten to unravel quickly.  Arya and Gendry would likely satisfy all of the houses that originally supported Robert, and if Tyrion is lord of Casterly Rock I think he would go along with it also.

I personally don't think there will be a great council, but if it went down I believe I have presented the couple that would get the most support.

Edit: It seems clear anyone who knew Robert would recognize Gendry as his, Brienne mistakes him for Renly momentarily, and Stannis, Jon Aryn, and Ned Stark all recognized him for who he was.

[House Beaudreau]

2 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I don't think they would be the ones to put the claim forth, I think someone else would do it for them.  Just looking at the candidates that would be available, there might be Edric, perhaps someone will try to marry Mya Stone, any Martell could claim Targ descent, I think the Tarths can to, but I feel like any candidate I can think of would only have the support of 1 region and things would threaten to unravel quickly.  Arya and Gendry would likely satisfy all of the houses that originally supported Robert, and if Tyrion is lord of Casterly Rock I think he would go along with it also.

I personally don't think there will be a great council, but if it went down I believe I have presented the couple that would get the most support.

Edit: It seems clear anyone who knew Robert would recognize Gendry as his, Brienne mistakes him for Renly momentarily, and Stannis, Jon Aryn, and Ned Stark all recognized him for who he was.

I don't think anyone would back a lowborn bastard. It insults the whole idea of nobility and weakens the claims of everyone that support them. if anything it would be a highborn male that would support Arya or Sansa's claim and would marry them and take the name Stark for himself.

It is hard to raise to Nobility and even if you do, other nobles will scoff at it. this is why no one really concerns themselves with Littlefinger's scheming and why the Lannisters Originally turn down a marriage to the Westerlings for one of Kevan's sons because a Spicer married into there line. That makes it hard for a Bastard or lowborn to rise high without an already powerful King to back him