Aejon Targaryen???

[Lord Lyman]

4 hours ago, GravyFace said:

It's Aerys. 

You can read her lips if you know what to look for.

The name starts with "Ae" as you can see her mouth open with the A formation.

Then her lips curl inward to produce the "r" sound. You can tell it's not Aegon because her mouth isn't forming the g, it's definitely not Jahaerys, and it's definitely not Aejon as she's not forming the J. She doesn't close her mouth to produce the M in Aemon, so it's not that either.

 

And the actress confirmed that she actually spoke actual dialogue that was muted, so the actual name was said. They didn't just give her jibberish to say.

Are you sure it wasn't Aerion?

[GravyFace]

9 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

Are you sure it wasn't Aerion?

Doesn't look like that to me.

[Cron]

20 hours ago, GravyFace said:

It's Aerys. 

You can read her lips if you know what to look for.

The name starts with "Ae" as you can see her mouth open with the A formation.

Then her lips curl inward to produce the "r" sound. You can tell it's not Aegon because her mouth isn't forming the g, it's definitely not Jahaerys, and it's definitely not Aejon as she's not forming the J. She doesn't close her mouth to produce the M in Aemon, so it's not that either.

 

And the actress confirmed that she actually spoke actual dialogue that was muted, so the actual name was said. They didn't just give her jibberish to say.

That is very interesting and informative, seriously, but as I've previously mentioned, just cuz they gave her dialogue to speak does NOT mean it's accurate.

As I've mentioned, when they filmed Empire Strikes Back, they gave the actor who physically played Darth Vader (David Prowse) fake lines to speak when Vader told Luke that Vader was his father, then they later dubbed over the real lines (spoken by James Earl Jones). (They did this b/c the fact that Vader was Luke's father was so ULTRA secret that only a couple people knew it, probably only George Lucas, james Earl Jones, and one or two sound guys, I would think)

I understand there are differences between the two situations, and I'm not claiming to know they gave the Lyanna actress fake lines, but it IS possible, especially since you'd think they would know that if they gave her the real stuff, lip readers would quickly break the news.

[Winterstars]

I vote for Daeron after Daeron The Young Dragon. Jon deeply idolized him, for him being a reason to encourage Jon taking the black, because Jon wanted to be somehow like him. The naive thought, I always laugh when I read that part.

I watched the scene multiple times, and I'm pretty sure the name have A-E-O. Can be Aegon or Aemon, but still vote for DAERON! (I also believe the name has 3 syllables unless they cut the scene when Lyanna haven't finished saying the complete name)

[Cron]

On 7/21/2016 at 10:25 AM, Winterstars said:

I vote for Daeron after Daeron The Young Dragon. Jon deeply idolized him, for him being a reason to encourage Jon taking the black, because Jon wanted to be somehow like him. The naive thought, I always laugh when I read that part.

I watched the scene multiple times, and I'm pretty sure the name have A-E-O. Can be Aegon or Aemon, but still vote for DAERON! (I also believe the name has 3 syllables unless they cut the scene when Lyanna haven't finished saying the complete name)

Good stuff.

I don't even recall that part about Daeron the Young Dragon, but I believe you.

It's been almost 5 years since I've read the books (although I have read them all twice).

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 7/15/2016 at 7:32 PM, Ser Bronn Blackfyre said:

His last name would be Blackfyre right? Since he's a Targ bastard he won't be named Waters, Hill or Snow.

Aegon IV Targaryen's bastards Brynden and Aegor were Riverses. Their half-brother Daemon Blackfyre took the name from the Targaryen Valyrian steel sword. Their half-sister was Shiera Seastar.

[Cron]

On 7/24/2016 at 4:49 PM, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Aegon IV Targaryen's bastards Brynden and Aegor were Riverses. Their half-brother Daemon Blackfyre took the name from the Targaryen Valyrian steel sword. Their half-sister was Shiera Seastar.

Good stuff.

Is that in the Dunk and Egg stories?

[Jon Snow Nothing]

Lol, Aejon is so bad, so why not Jonaerys?

His name is either Aemon, Aegon or Aerys. I prefer Aemon, though I am quite sure I heard something like "air" when Lyanna was whispering.

[Cron]

2 hours ago, Jon Snow Nothing said:

Lol, Aejon is so bad, so why not Jonaerys?

His name is either Aemon, Aegon or Aerys. I prefer Aemon, though I am quite sure I heard something like "air" when Lyanna was whispering.

"Jonaerys," good one!

I'm not saying you're wrong cuz I don't know for sure, but my understanding has come to be that it's not possible to make out what she said by listening to it, period.  My understanding is that they gave the actress a word or words to say (although they COULD have been bogus, meaning they gave her something to say, but NOT the real dialogue, so as to frustrate lip readers), and then, as I understand it, they turned the audio down so that it simply CANNOT be made out (MAYBE even put other, bogus audio in there, I dunno).

But again, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you're definitely wrong, cuz I just don't know.  I'll tell you this, I watched the scene about 10 times with the volume CRANKED, and simply cannot make out what she said.  Again, though, I'm guessing it CAN'T be made out, cuz if it could, I'm sure some sound experts could take the audio, run it through a computer, filter out the extraneous noise, then turn it up (maybe doing other stuff, too) and the secret would already be out.

We'll see, though. 

[Slaysman]

At this point does his name matter? He is Jon Snow the White Wolf and King in the North. Crowned by deed and not by blood.Though book Jon Snow is much more ruthless and capable than show Jon.

[Cron]

8 hours ago, Slaysman said:

At this point does his name matter? He is Jon Snow the White Wolf and King in the North. Crowned by deed and not by blood.Though book Jon Snow is much more ruthless and capable than show Jon.

Well, I think a lot of people (including me) believe his name is significant precisely because they went to such lengths to conceal it.

I'm strongly assuming she didn't just say "His name is Jon," cuz that would be anti-climactic, so there's a lot of curiosity about it, too.

As many have pointed out, his father's identity has not yet been confirmed, so there's still some slim chance it's not Rhaegar, and that would be very significant and shocking news, for example.

In any event, I'm confident it's Aejon Targaryen, and that's that

HARR!!!

[Ice Spider]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:56 AM, Cron said:

Well, I think a lot of people (including me) believe his name is significant precisely because they went to such lengths to conceal it.

I'm strongly assuming she didn't just say "His name is Jon," cuz that would be anti-climactic, so there's a lot of curiosity about it, too.

As many have pointed out, his father's identity has not yet been confirmed, so there's still some slim chance it's not Rhaegar, and that would be very significant and shocking news, for example.

In any event, I'm confident it's Aejon Targaryen, and that's that

HARR!!!

Jon's father has already been confirmed.

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Ice Spider said:

Jon's father has already been confirmed.

Jon's father has already been confirmed???

When and where?

My understanding and belief is that it's about 99.999% likely it's Rhaegar, but as far as I know it's not expressly confirmed.

Indeed, there's a massive thread in this very sub-forum (Winds of Winter, Ep. 610) entitled "Not Confirmed" where the debate about Jon's parents carries on.

(indeed, as I recall, SOME people claim it's not even confirmed that Lyanna is his mother.  My personal view is that it is 100% confirmed that Lyanna is his mother and Jon is the baby we saw in the Tower of Joy, but that Rhaegar is not 100% confirmed as his father.  However, as I basically said above, I do believe it is overwhelmingly likely that Rhaegar is his father.)

[Lord Lyman]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 3:07 AM, Cron said:

Jon's father has already been confirmed???

When and where?

My understanding and belief is that it's about 99.999% likely it's Rhaegar, but as far as I know it's not expressly confirmed.

Indeed, there's a massive thread in this very sub-forum (Winds of Winter, Ep. 610) entitled "Not Confirmed" where the debate about Jon's parents carries on.

(indeed, as I recall, SOME people claim it's not even confirmed that Lyanna is his mother.  My personal view is that it is 100% confirmed that Lyanna is his mother and Jon is the baby we saw in the Tower of Joy, but that Rhaegar is not 100% confirmed as his father.  However, as I basically said above, I do believe it is overwhelmingly likely that Rhaegar is his father.)

An info graphic was posted on an official HBO website showing Rhaegar being one of Jon's parents. People are using this as their confirmation. I don't and like you believe it is all but confirmed.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/29/12060254/game-of-thrones-hbo-jon-snow-mom-dad-targaryen-chart

The thing is I don't know who created that graphic. Just because its on an official website doesn't mean its true. For all we know, some intern created it and posted it up there without it getting checked. Although the fact that it has never been taken down by anyone could mean it is true.

But unless it comes from either Dave, Dan, George or the show, I am not personally confirming it.

 

[Cron]

3 hours ago, Lord Lyman said:

An info graphic was posted on an official HBO website showing Rhaegar being one of Jon's parents. People are using this as their confirmation. I don't and like you believe it is all but confirmed.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/29/12060254/game-of-thrones-hbo-jon-snow-mom-dad-targaryen-chart

The thing is I don't know who created that graphic. Just because its on an official website doesn't mean its true. For all we know, some intern created it and posted it up there without it getting checked. Although the fact that it has never been taken down by anyone could mean it is true.

But unless it comes from either Dave, Dan, George or the show, I am not personally confirming it.

 

Yeah, good stuff.

I consider it overwhelmingly likely that Rhaegar is Jon's father (to the point that if they were to now claim Rhaegar is NOT Jon's father many people would consider such a revelation absurd), but technically it's not 100 percent, so far as I know.

[Flavia Gemina]

"This is my bastard son Jon Snow, named after my foster father, nothing to see here, move along"

 

no Aejon shortening needed. 

 

even good queen Cersei didn't notice it was odd that Jon (Doe) lived with his father in a castle instead of a hovel with some random small woman.

[Cron]

On 8/12/2016 at 10:15 AM, Flavia Gemina said:

"This is my bastard son Jon Snow, named after my foster father, nothing to see here, move along"

 

no Aejon shortening needed. 

 

even good queen Cersei didn't notice it was odd that Jon (Doe) lived with his father in a castle instead of a hovel with some random small woman.

Well, good food for thought, but some people believe it's possible "Aejon" was a name devised by Rhaegar in honor of Rhaegar's good friend, Jon Connington, so the "Jon" part is not necessarily a connection to Jon Arryn.

Also, note that even Roose Bolton allowed his "non-trueborn" son (Ramsay) to live in his castle with him, so I'm not sure it was all that uncommon..  I believe there are other examples of "non-trueborns" being treated pretty much the same as "truborns," too, other than name and inheritance/succession rights.

[Shortspear Rick]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Also, note that even Roose Bolton allowed his "non-trueborn" son (Ramsay) to live in his castle with him, so I'm not sure it was all that uncommon..  I believe there are other examples of "non-trueborns" being treated pretty much the same as "truborns," too, other than name and inheritance/succession rights.

Well, Roose only brought Ramsey to the Dreadfort after his son Dominic had died leaving him in need of an heir. Had that not happened Roose would have been perfectly content to continue ignoring Ramsey and leaving him to his mother. A situation like Jon's, a bastard raised inside a great noble house alongside trueborn siblings, is indeed rather exceptional and the only reason it never raised more eyebrows is because everyone just chalked it up to the stubborn sense of honor in Ned and the Starks.

[Ice Spider]

His name is Jon. A name given to him by the man that raised him, loved him as his own, and installed his values. I highly doubt that Jon would rather be know by any other name than "Jon". Everything else is just trivial. So, with that in mind, who cares?

[Cron]

33 minutes ago, Shortspear Rick said:

Well, Roose only brought Ramsey to the Dreadfort after his son Dominic had died leaving him in need of an heir. Had that not happened Roose would have been perfectly content to continue ignoring Ramsey and leaving him to his mother. A situation like Jon's, a bastard raised inside a great noble house alongside trueborn siblings, is indeed rather exceptional and the only reason it never raised more eyebrows is because everyone just chalked it up to the stubborn sense of honor in Ned and the Starks.

Very interesting, I had forgotten that detail about Roose and Ramsay.

Perhaps I'm giving the other Houses too much credit for how they treated "non-trueborn" offspring.  I had had a general sense that there were other good examples, but I'm drawing something of a blank right now, I admit.