Iskaral Pust Posted September 1, 2016 Share Posted September 1, 2016 I just finished yesterday, although I skipped the sample chapter. It sounds like I should go back to it. My posts will have plenty of spoilers, since that's what the thread title says and Unjon and Helena have opened Pandora's box already. The slowly revealed mystery of the world building is really what sets this apart from generic story of a student of magic, whether Jedi or Aes Sedai. In response to some of the discussion above: - I agree that each obelisk does not contain a stone-eater. I'd like to know more about CorePoint and the origin of stone-eaters. From Hoa's comments in OG, stone-eaters are immortal but new ones are created very rarely (not procreated). So it seems like each stone-eater was a powerful oregene who used the obelisk network at some point. We see Alabaster is now a stone-eater and Essun has started the process. - speculation: is it an accident or by design (if so, whose?) that stone-eaters can no longer access the obelisks after they transition? If there are so many stone-eaters, why did none of the others try to use the OG to capture or crash the moon before now? (even allowing for the trajectory offering limited opportunities) - Schaffa, if he were not resisting, seems to be in the same faction as Steel. Why does Steel approach Nassun while hiding it from Schaffa? Does Steel know Schaffa is resisting? How does Father Earth corrupt/co-opt guardians? We see it happening from Schaffa's perspective, but no picture of the agency or mechanism involved by Father Earth. - supposedly the Fulcrum shuts down and all orogenes are killed at the start of a season, while the guardians remain. How do they restart Fulcrum training after the season? It does not seem like the guardians can directly train the orogenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 11 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: I just finished yesterday, although I skipped the sample chapter. It sounds like I should go back to it. Definitely read it. It is pretty key and mention of what it reveals is going to be all over here, even in this post by me, but I'll try to avoid it a bit for now. 11 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: - I agree that each obelisk does not contain a stone-eater. I'd like to know more about CorePoint and the origin of stone-eaters. From Hoa's comments in OG, stone-eaters are immortal but new ones are created very rarely (not procreated). So it seems like each stone-eater was a powerful oregene who used the obelisk network at some point. We see Alabaster is now a stone-eater and Essun has started the process. Yeah, I agree, I think all of them were (at some point) strong Orogenes. IIRC, Hoa comments that he still has some memories from before being a stone eater, meaning, perhaps, that he is younger than the rest. So, it would seem that the Gate was probably used pretty often in the past. 11 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: - speculation: is it an accident or by design (if so, whose?) that stone-eaters can no longer access the obelisks after they transition? If there are so many stone-eaters, why did none of the others try to use the OG to capture or crash the moon before now? (even allowing for the trajectory offering limited opportunities) I think it is by nature. Stone eaters are not orogenes any more, so they cannot access the Obelisks at all, as far as I can tell. 12 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: - Schaffa, if he were not resisting, seems to be in the same faction as Steel. Why does Steel approach Nassun while hiding it from Schaffa? Does Steel know Schaffa is resisting? How does Father Earth corrupt/co-opt guardians? We see it happening from Schaffa's perspective, but no picture of the agency or mechanism involved by Father Earth. Yeah, I'm not sure. The whole Father Earth this is rather confusing. I think the Corestone (hmmm, just realized the similarities to Corepoint) is actually part of Father Earth. Maybe that is the whole thing, the Corepoint Deadciv created Corestones to harness Orogenes, and that is what Father Earth "corrupted" to perhaps eliminate them? Perhaps Steel hides from Schaffa just on general principle? Stone Lone certainly warns to not deal with Stone Eaters at all and I'm sure they know that. Like Hoa says multiple times though, not all the Stone Eaters want the same things, so I guess Steel is just being cautious? 12 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said: - supposedly the Fulcrum shuts down and all orogenes are killed at the start of a season, while the guardians remain. How do they restart Fulcrum training after the season? It does not seem like the guardians can directly train the orogenes. Yeah, that's a bit of a mystery. Perhaps they make sure of higher ringed ones don't kill themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted September 2, 2016 Share Posted September 2, 2016 Aside from all the speculation questions, I had a couple of notes on the world building: - there was an explicit sentence "he could not get enough carbon dioxide into his lungs". Did I miss or forget a reference in FS that these people breathe CO2 rather than O2? - Tonkee's arm was reattached. This is a civ that relies heavily on stone tools, eschews metal or anything less permanent than stone, and yet has med tech to reattach an arm with function partially restored. Was this ever addressed in FS? - it seems very improbable that a civ with their limited tools and very limited tech/science could produce the kind of food surplus described. Possibly they have inherited genetically modified crops of much greater efficiency, but I just have to suspend my disbelief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.H. Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 On 9/2/2016 at 11:46 AM, Iskaral Pust said: Aside from all the speculation questions, I had a couple of notes on the world building: - there was an explicit sentence "he could not get enough carbon dioxide into his lungs". Did I miss or forget a reference in FS that these people breathe CO2 rather than O2? This was the part where Jija beat Uche to death. He is hyperventilating, as Nassun notes in the previous sentence, so she is just remarking that he hasn't "come back down" to a normal level of oxygen and carbon dioxide mixture just yet. On 9/2/2016 at 11:46 AM, Iskaral Pust said: - Tonkee's arm was reattached. This is a civ that relies heavily on stone tools, eschews metal or anything less permanent than stone, and yet has med tech to reattach an arm with function partially restored. Was this ever addressed in FS? - it seems very improbable that a civ with their limited tools and very limited tech/science could produce the kind of food surplus described. Possibly they have inherited genetically modified crops of much greater efficiency, but I just have to suspend my disbelief. Yeah, I think in this case we have to just err to suspend disbelief, because surely would seem unlikely that such highly developed medical technology could survive thousands of years of Seasons. Didn't really bother me too much, just a little hand-wavey perhaps, but then again people are controling the ground with their mind and people are made of stone, so it didn't really jar me, personally. I guess of all the technology you could save though, medical ones would probably the best idea to keep around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnionAhaiReborn Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 I agree that arm reattachment felt out of place, but if it isn't just a suspend your disbelief kind of thing, maybe we're meant to assume that Ykka had some involvement? By the end of the book Nassun is learning how to manipulate bodies down to the nerves, so maybe Ykka, who also learned crazy stuff on her own, could put an arm back on someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 6, 2016 Share Posted September 6, 2016 25 minutes ago, OnionAhaiReborn said: I agree that arm reattachment felt out of place, but if it isn't just a suspend your disbelief kind of thing, maybe we're meant to assume that Ykka had some involvement? By the end of the book Nassun is learning how to manipulate bodies down to the nerves, so maybe Ykka, who also learned crazy stuff on her own, could put an arm back on someone. I like this explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caligula_K3 Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I just finished Obelisk Gate. It's a fantastic book- even better than The Fifth Season, which I already loved. Nassun and Schaffa's plotline in particular was well written and portrayed, and while Essun suffered from slow pacing at the beginning, I really enjoyed the gradual layers of revelation between her and Alabaster and especially her and Hoa. Stone eaters are such a cool concept, and this is a book full of cool concepts. I love that we started heading into sci-fi territory in this one. Now, do people think the Guardians' master is really Father Earth? Since I'm assuming this is our Earth in the far future, I also imagine that there is no personification of our planet pulling the strings. If I'm right, who is the great enemy? Is it the stone eater that Hoa fights? Who I assume is also the stone eater Nassun talks to at the end. While I'm sure the third book will answer the questions I have after reading this one, I think I share some other posters' confusion over what the goals of Schaffa and the other renegade Guardians are. And I'm not sure that was Jemisin's intention. Also, a comment on her writing. After enjoying Fifth Season so much, I read the Inheritance Trilogy this summer and was pretty disappointed. Reading this book so soon after that is like night and day- her prose has really gotten much tighter and less melodramatic. There were still a few moments where I wish the narrator would refrain from telling the reader what's already been shown, and a few awkward, anachronistic seeming phrases pop in, but Jemisin has developed into a strong writer. I'm really excited to read the next one, and to re-read these first two books before it comes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Naw, I think Father Earth is probably Father Earth. And he's pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Well I think Father Earth is some sort of entity, super-computer?, that connnects to all the the Guardians via the corestone. I'm not even sure what the he'll Schaffa is trying to accomplish, bring back the moon? Wasn't that what Essun is trying to do also? Good book, not as great a s the first one though, me thinks. Things prodded along along throughout the first 3/4 of the book. Learned a lot, got some new mysteries, all in all it was pretty good. I think it sets up well for the next book though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 I think you guys are assuming this book if more sci fi then it actually is. There's even a scene where Nassun.Essun asks about Father Earth and the holy shit i forget his name, the old guy goes no, Father Earth is Father Earth and he's pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iskaral Pust Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 We're told frequently about three factions: one wants to restore the moon, end the seasons and allow humanity to flourish again, another who wants to crash the moon into the earth to end humanity and allow the earth to move forward into a post-human future, and a third who wants who maintain the status quo. Schaffa and Steel appear to be in the second faction under Father Earth. The third faction is inactive so far and presumably composed of stone eaters on the periphery of the story and unwittingly by the Sanzed/Guardians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said: I think you guys are assuming this book if more sci fi then it actually is. There's even a scene where Nassun.Essun asks about Father Earth and the holy shit i forget his name, the old guy goes no, Father Earth is Father Earth and he's pissed. Yeah, I also thought this series would more sci-fi after the Fifth Season, but I think it's leaning more down a fantasy route now - I.e. We won't be seeing super computers as the evil masterminds of it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said: Yeah, I also thought this series would more sci-fi after the Fifth Season, but I think it's leaning more down a fantasy route now - I.e. We won't be seeing super computers as the evil masterminds of it all Yea super computers is a bad choice of words. I'd say that that "bad" stones eaters are the ones who created the Guardians as a way to reign in the orogene's. The magic is what connects it all to me. I think the stone eaters who do not want the moon to come back are the ones controlling the Guardians. Father Eart is just, well, Father Earth as we see in the Prologue. Hence, corestone, is what controls the Guardians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 The prologue? You mean of Fifth Season? Cause thats uh, whats his face, the ten ringer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 The sample chapter after the OG. Tells how the world ended the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 Magic is in the Obelisks, magic is what controls the Guardians through the corestone, orogene who uses magic, becomes a stone water. stone eateater are full of magic it's what they are. So, I think the stone eaters created the Guardians to control them and make sure a orogene never opens the Gate and being back the moon, stabilizing the seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 7, 2016 Share Posted September 7, 2016 13 minutes ago, Michael Seswatha Jordan said: The sample chapter after the OG. Tells how the world ended the first time. Eh, Spoiler Thats Hoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Seswatha Jordan Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Eh, Hide contents Thats Hoa. Yea, I know. I'm not claiming its a super computers or the ones controlling the Guardians. Its was a reference to my er, that Father Eart is just that Father Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Right right, I have a cold that is getting worse, so my brain is not functioning property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted September 8, 2016 Share Posted September 8, 2016 Would it be possible to discuss the sample in spoilers only? Some of us don't have access to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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