Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, divica said: So you think tyrion, varys, greyworm, missandei, danny, brienne, Jaime, sansa and I don t know how many characters really believe in the NW before seeing the wight? Tyrion? Absolutely. He is on Dany's side so by the time episode 7 happens, Dany will have told him that she had to rescue them from the nonsensical mission. Greyworm? Of course. He will believe what Dany tells him. Missandei? Same. Brienne? Well, she witnessed a shadow killing Renly Jaime: Cersei's side. and Cersei's puppet. The don't go there to convince HIM because he is a nobody. Not that they could not have convinced him in another way, more effectively, maybe Brienne telling him in case they wanted (and it's not the case). No need for the circus so as to convince him in case they wanted to convince him apart from Cersei, which is not the case, according to the leaks. Sansa: She doesn't attend the wight circus according to the leaks. @divica if you actually like the wight hunt/wight exhibition, it's fine, but this is a rants thread and people will rant about it if they consider it is awful and/or illogical (and the latter happens to be universally true when we read the leaks). There are other threads to actually discuss it in case you feel it is necessary. Here you can rant about what you actually don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 When the wight circus happens I'll have to play this music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 9 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Tyrion? Absolutely. He is on Dany's side so by the time episode 7 happens, Dany will have told him that she had to rescue them from the nonsensical mission. Greyworm? Of course. He will believe what Dany tells him. Missandei? Same. Brienne? Well, she witnessed a shadow killing Renly Jaime: Cersei's side. and Cersei's puppet. The don't go there to convince HIM because he is a nobody. Not that they could not have convinced him in another way, more effectively, maybe Brienne telling him in case they wanted (and it's not the case). No need for the circus so as to convince him in case they wanted to convince him apart from Cersei, which is not the case, according to the leaks. Sansa: She doesn't attend the wight circus according to the leaks. Exactly, the only two factions there are those already united behind Jon and Dany, and then the rest behind Cersei. It doesn't matter what Missandei believes or say the Mountain believes - they don't make the decisions, nor are they the ones to treat with. So, yes, it's absolutely done for Cersei. And it makes absolutely no sense to risk dragons or allies for Cersei. Dany has conquered and dealt with the Slavers of Slaver's Bay. Hell, Tyrion has dealt with them. He already made deals with them in S6. He knows Cersei is a nutter and even less willing to cooperate and more false than the slavers...but he repeats his S6 tactic, and Dany tries to make peace again like she did in S5 with someone who blew up a sept with people who tried to make peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 11 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Tyrion? Absolutely. He is on Dany's side so by the time episode 7 happens, Dany will have told him that she had to rescue them from the nonsensical mission. Greyworm? Of course. He will believe what Dany tells him. Missandei? Same. Brienne? Well, she witnessed a shadow killing Renly Jaime: Cersei's side. and Cersei's puppet. The don't go there to convince HIM because he is a nobody. Not that they could not have convinced him in another way, more effectively, maybe Brienne telling him in case they wanted (and it's not the case). No need for the circus so as to convince him in case they wanted to convince him apart from Cersei, which is not the case, according to the leaks. Sansa: She doesn't attend the wight circus according to the leaks. @divica if you actually like the wight hunt/wight exhibition, it's fine, but this is a rants thread and people will rant about it if they consider it is awful and/or illogic (and the latter happens to be universally true when we read the leaks). There are other threads to actually discuss it in case you feel it is necessary. Here you can rant about what you actually don't like. How could danny rescue them and see the ww if the hunt didn t happen? All these characters only have proof of the ww because of the hunt. You can t say they believe jon and then say it is because they see the wight caught in the hunt... And you don t need to go to the dragonpit to know about the wight. When everyone in westeros starts to talk about the wight you will know about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Exactly, the only two factions there are those already united behind Jon and Dany, and then the rest behind Cersei. It doesn't matter what Missandei believes or say the Mountain believes - they don't make the decisions, nor are they the ones to treat with. So, yes, it's absolutely done for Cersei. The meeting is mostly for cersei. The hunt is for everybody. You can t agree that danny side believes in the ww because they see them/ danny tells them what she sees and then say the hunt was only for cercei... The hunt was used to provide proof to EVERYBODY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: Exactly, the only two factions there are those already united behind Jon and Dany, and then the rest behind Cersei. It doesn't matter what Missandei believes or say the Mountain believes - they don't make the decisions, nor are they the ones to treat with. So, yes, it's absolutely done for Cersei. And it makes absolutely no sense to risk dragons or allies for Cersei. Exactly, they go there after having gone to Hardhome, and Jon knew what can happen if they are not prepared. Quote any has conquered and dealt with the Slavers of Slaver's Bay. Hell, Tyrion has dealt with them. He already made deals with them in S6. He knows Cersei is a nutter and even less willing to cooperate and more false than the slavers...but he repeats his S6 tactic, and Dany tries to make peace again like she did in S5 with someone who blew up a sept with people who tried to make peace. Yes, a good example. I don't know what does Cersei have that everyone thinks she deserve the best of the attentions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said: Erm, no... Thorne has already taken a bit of wight to court before he fell into a plot hole. If we presume the same logic applies as in the books, the wight they bring back should just be a random dead body. what do they do in the books then? I really dont remember... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, divica said: what do they do in the books then? I really dont remember... Once Alliser took the Wight's hand south and it became redundant it just rotted away like any ordinary hand would. By the time he reached King's Landing he was just left with some bones and a story that it once was a reanimated corpse, which everyone laughed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: Exactly, they go there after having gone to Hardhome, and Jon knew what can happen if they are not prepared. Yes, a good example. I don't know what does Cersei have that everyone thinks she deserve the best of the attentions. When writing has the main characters repeat their previous stupidity every season then it becomes a total borefest. This is very obviously making up illogical shit just to have Cersei in for one more season, just as they prolonged LF's life for two more seasons against all logic, and prolonged Ramsay's life. Sansa, Jon, Dany and others are dumbed down so the villains can stay one more season, and then surprise when they need LF or Cersei gone, they'll have their downfall in a 5 min scene, from top to bottom. Exactly as they stupidly did in BotB. It's nothing but false tension. The show has become a torture to logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: When writing has the main characters repeat their previous stupidity every season then it becomes a total borefest. This is very obviously making up illogical shit just to have Cersei in for one more season, just as they prolonged LF's life for two more seasons against all logic, and prolonged Ramsay's life. Sansa, Jon, Dany and others are dumbed down so the villains can stay one more season, and then surprise when they need LF or Cersei gone, they'll have their downfall in a 5 min scene, from top to bottom. Exactly as they stupidly did in BotB. It's nothing but false tension. The show has become a torture to logic. I completely agree. They do all these just to have a couple or three of Big Shocking moments. And the characters become stupid just to dance along with the plot that only serves Cersei. No matter if it is the main plot of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: I completely agree. They do all these just to have a couple or three of Big Shocking moments. And the characters become stupid just to dance along with the plot that only serves Cersei. No matter if it is the main plot of the season. The S6 re-run this weekend came with this eyerolling reminder during breaks how this show was even better than the best movie, while I was visiting with family. I asked them whether that add made them even remotely interested in watching it: answer, something that is actually good doesn't need to boast about itself that much in an add. Right answer, I said. I told them - don't watch it, because I think it's one of the worst shows I've seen in years. It started good, but now it's just trash of deplorable plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Well, these are the same guys who thought marrying your enemy in order to defeat your enemy was a good idea, so with that in mind this is an improvement. 1 hour ago, Le Cygne said: Engaging the enemy to enlist help to engage the enemy isn't too bright, either. Bhahahahahaha Ah, it's going to be hard to keep track of old stupidity and new stupidity. I'm game to try tonight, we'll have to see if I can manage it all the way through to the end of the episode. I'm having a hard time enlisting help on the home front to watch the coming crapfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: And the guys who thought that killing kin because the enemy killed other kin was smart too. You know Ellaria killing Doran, because the Lannisters killed Doran's brother. And, see, this stupid idea was supposed to be in my previous post. See, told ya all, I'm going to have problems keeping up with new stupidity. I've spared myself any rewatching of the last couple seasons, it's done wonders for my mood, but I confess, I'm blissfully forgetful about lots of show stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 38 minutes ago, sweetsunray said: The S6 re-run this weekend came with this eyerolling reminder during breaks how this show was even better than the best movie, while I was visiting with family. I asked them whether that add made them even remotely interested in watching it: answer, something that is actually good doesn't need to boast about itself that much in an add. Right answer, I said. I told them - don't watch it, because I think it's one of the worst shows I've seen in years. It started good, but now it's just trash of deplorable plot. wow! Indeed. if something is good it does not need to be advertised as something good, reminding you that you are watching the best. If something is good, people will watch because of the quality, and will tell others about it, and advertising (of any type) is actually not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetsunray Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said: wow! Indeed. if something is good it does not need to be advertised as something good, reminding you that you are watching the best. If something is good, people will watch because of the quality, and will tell others about it, and advertising (of any type) is actually not necessary. They had S6 scenes overdubbed with famous movie quotes (Kill Bill, Apocalypse Now, Godfather). FFS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 2 hours ago, divica said: the karstarks don t do that in the book? No they don't. Arnolf Karsark wants his captive nephew to die so that he can become Lord of Karhold. Arnold and his sons are corrupt and are hoping that the Lannisters execute the true Lord of Karhold, Harrion Karstark. In D&D's stupid Dorne plot, Ellaria (who in the books makes a wonderful speech about the futility of revenge) seeks vengence for the murder of Oberyn by killing his beloved brother (who happens to be the ruler of Dorne) and his son because she thinks they are weak. And to add to the insanely stupid writing, the nobles of Dorne support Ellaria (a mistress) and the bastard born Sand Snakes after they just cold bloodedly killed the ruler and heir to Dorne. How does this stupid plot compare to the Arnolf Karstark's deception? And as others have said please respect the fact that this is a rant thread. If you want to defend the writing and plotlines of dumb and dumber, I'm sure there are other threads for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 6 minutes ago, teej6 said: No they don't. Arnolf Karsark wants his captive nephew to die so that he can become Lord of Karhold. Arnold and his sons are corrupt and are hoping that the Lannisters execute the true Lord of Karhold, Harrion Karstark. In D&D's stupid Dorne plot, Ellaria (who in the books makes a wonderful speech about the futility of revenge) seeks vengence for the murder of Oberyn by killing his beloved brother (who happens to be the ruler of Dorne) and his son because she thinks they are weak. And to add to the insanely stupid writing, the nobles of Dorne support Ellaria (a mistress) and the bastard born Sand Snakes after they just cold bloodedly killed the ruler and heir to Dorne. How does this stupid plot compare to the Arnolf Karstark's deception? And as others have said please respect the fact that this is a rant thread. If you want to defend the writing and plotlines of dumb and dumber, I'm sure there are other threads for that. I was Reading the asoiaf wiki and that isn t what is written there. they just say that RICKARD karstark wanted revenge on the lanisters and as Jaime was released he killed the hostages. I have no idea where you got that plot. Quote Lord Karstark returns from the westerlands with the rest of Robb's army. Finding that Catelyn Stark had freed Ser Jaime Lannister from captivity in an effort to retrieve her daughters, Sansa and Arya, Rickard feels she has robbed him of his vengeance. Driven to desperation, he and seven of his men murder the captive squires Tion Frey and Willem Lannister, killing two Tully men in the process.[3] Meanwhile, he sends his cavalry to scour the riverlands for Jaime, as Rickard has promised the hand of his daughter Alys to whomever brings him Jaime's head.[19] For his crime, Robb Stark sentences Rickard to death and beheads him. And I am not defending the plots. I am defending that people rant about things that make sense ranting. You can't say that the show is stupid because they use killing kin as revenge when the books do the same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teej6 Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 23 minutes ago, divica said: I was Reading the asoiaf wiki and that isn t what is written there. they just say that RICKARD karstark wanted revenge on the lanisters and as Jaime was released he killed the hostages. I have no idea where you got that plot. And I am not defending the plots. I am defending that people rant about things that make sense ranting. You can't say that the show is stupid because they use killing kin as revenge when the books do the same! That plot is from the books. If you've read the books you'd know. Arnolf is Rickard's uncle and I assumed you were talking of Arnolf's betrayal coz he's the only Karstark who is betraying his kin. As for Rickard's storyline in the books, it's nothing like Ellaria and the Sand Snakes plot on the show. Rickard wanted revenge for the murder of his sons who were cut down by Jamie. Cat deprived him of his revenge by freeing Jamie and so he killed some other Lannisters instead. He didn't go kill his own kin for revenge. Big difference. The Karstarks eventually abandon Robb because he executes Rickard who is kin to the Starks but not for revenge but because Robb as king thought that was the just thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philokles Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 8 minutes ago, divica said: I was Reading the asoiaf wiki and that isn t what is written there. they just say that RICKARD karstark wanted revenge on the lanisters and as Jaime was released he killed the hostages. I have no idea where you got that plot. And I am not defending the plots. I am defending that people rant about things that make sense ranting. You can't say that the show is stupid because they use killing kin as revenge when the books do the same! You misunderstood the OP on this topic. Ellaria murdered Martells to get vengeance for the murder of a Martell. Rickard murdered two Lannisters to get vengeance for the murder of a Karstark. Collectively punishing Tion and Willem for their cousin's crimes (doubtful whether killing an enemy in battle could ever be counted as a crime anyway) is unjust, but is totally different to killing one's own family for no logical reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meera of Tarth Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 1 hour ago, sweetsunray said: They had S6 scenes overdubbed with famous movie quotes (Kill Bill, Apocalypse Now, Godfather). FFS! noooo!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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