What if Mel sacrifices Shireen to revive Jon, thinking Stannis dead, while he actually lives (and conquers Winterfell)

[SeanF]

 

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:57 PM, The Snow Bear said:

We still have to wait one or two decades for WoW. Time for some spitballing!

Most already is in my contender for longest topic title in the forum. I think almost no one believes that Jon will stay dead. With Melisandre at Castle Black and Shireen in reach, many think that the sacrifice of her royal blood by red god magic will be the means to facilitate Jons rebirth. 

Based on the way they are characterised in the books I don't see any possibility for Mel to kill Shireen while Stannis still lives. Thus Stannis' dead would have to preempt Jons resurrection. 

But what if Melisandre just thinks that Stannis is dead?

I'd think of a plot like Mel asking the fire about Stannis after reading the pink letter but only seeing snow, then directly asking wether Azor Ahai lived and getting a no. So Mel desire to sacrifice Shireen either to revive Jon directly or to resurrect AA leading to revive Jon indirectly. So Jon, now freed from his vows, rides against Winterfell. But there he doesn't meet Rose but Stannis who won the battle of the frozen river trap and with some Northern help conquered WF. 

What would Stannis do?

Would  he make peace with man who only lived because of the brutal murder of his child?

Would he atack Jons makeshift army?

What would happen to Mel (if Jon hadn't already punished her)? 

Would Stannis burn her? Would he find some 'just' punishment like he did with Davos?

Would Jon be willing and able to protect Mel?

What would the Northerners do?

Would they  shift allegiance or stand with the man they just had fought a glorious battle with?

Would they see Jon as The Neds (bastard) /son or as a nightswatch deserter?

Would they want him as king of the North or even of the whole seven kingdoms?

 

 

Melisandre would be facing an interview without coffee.  It would be like that scene where Lord Blackadder accidentally executes a man who's been reprieved by Queen Elizabeth.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That's just your opinion.  Same could be told about you. But at least I wasn't expecting anything better from a Dany’s fan since we have the text, just proving how sanctimonious someone can be in order to defend the evil acts of his or hers favourite character. 

What Jon has to do with Dany and Rhaego? Nothing. 

Jon getting roasted is where we started before we spent a page rehashing whether Daenerys is bad. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Melisandre would be facing an interview without coffee. 

This is singlehandedly the funniest things I have read here for a long time.

2 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Jon getting roasted is where we started before we spent a page rehashing whether Daenerys is bad. 

Only this wasn’t the case. The question was if everything she believed to be true was actually true or she had made a mistake.  I don’t need to ask if Dany is bad, especially in a discussion with her stalwarts, I know that she is.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That's just your opinion.  Same could be told about you. But at least I wasn't expecting anything better from a Dany’s fan since we have the text, just proving how sanctimonious someone can be in order to defend the evil acts of his or hers favourite character. 

What Jon has to do with Dany and Rhaego? Nothing. 

Whatever, We were using book evidence, all you have is your opinion that Dany is lying in her thoughts (which makes no sense).  It goes against the writing and you have nothing to back it up.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

7 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Whatever, We were using book evidence, all you have is your opinion that Dany is lying in her thoughts (which makes no sense).  It goes against the writing and you have nothing to back it up.

Yes because Dany saying that Jorah killed her son or MMD just saying that Rhaego is dead while never said that she killed him isn't in the books. Your opinion is less supported that the *theories* that BloodRaven has warged everyone who has done something important in GRRTH.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

14 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yes because Dany saying that Jorah killed her son or MMD just saying that Rhaego is dead while never said that she killed him isn't in the books. Your opinion is less supported that the *theories* that BloodRaven has warged everyone who has done something important in GRRTH.

by 'my opinion' do you mean all the text from the book I was posting?

Your only argument is that Dany is mistaken in her thoughts at the end of DwD because one time 5 books earlier she thought that two people could be responsible for the same act? Is that your reasoning? That it is impossible for 2 different people to impact one event? That's completely ridiculous!  It happens all day everyday. Two cars get in a wreck, is it always 100% one drivers fault? could it possibly be that both drivers caused the accident? I can't even follow your line of thinking.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

5 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

by 'my opinion' do you mean all the text from the book I was posting?

Your only argument is that Dany is mistaken in her thoughts at the end of DwD because one time 5 books earlier she thought that two people could be responsible for the same act? Is that your reasoning? That it is impossible for 2 different people to impact one event? That's completely ridiculous!  It happens all day everyday. Two cars get in a wreck, is it always 100% one drivers fault? could it possibly be that both drivers caused the accident? 

The point is that there in no conclusive proof that MMD killed Rhaego. Your  fanfiction is based on one quote 

Quote

The stallion who mounts the world will burn no cities now. His khalasar shall trample no nations into dust.

No one said that MMD didn't wanted Rhaego dead and she was right. But nowhere in the books she said that she did it. Much like what happened with Rhaegar's children, Robert wanted them dead and was happy about their deaths but he didn't killed him.

7 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

I can't even follow your line of thinking.

And  I cannot understand how someone can like a child murdered.

[Suzanna Stormborn]

10 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

The point is that there in no conclusive proof that MMD killed Rhaego. Your  fanfiction is based on one quote 

No one said that MMD didn't wanted Rhaego dead and she was right. But nowhere in the books she said that she did it. Much like what happened with Rhaegar's children, Robert wanted them dead and was happy about their deaths but he didn't killed him.

And  I cannot understand how someone can like a child murdered.

your the one who brought up this contrived argument about MMD and Rhaego.  I dont think it's even worth discussing.  And it has no bearing on the conversation I won before about Dany's last chapter in DwD. Just a way to tap dance around a subject when you have lost an argument.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

your the one who brought up this contrived argument about MMD and Rhaego.  I dont think it's even worth discussing.  And it has no bearing on the conversation I won before about Dany's last chapter in DwD. Just a way to tap dance around a subject when you have lost an argument.

Again your opinion. The fact that Dany has been proved wrong in the PoVs and creates precedent of her being wrong in her PoVs. 

[Suzanna Stormborn]

12 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Again your opinion. The fact that Dany has been proved wrong in the PoVs and creates precedent of her being wrong in her PoVs. 

She wasn't proved wrong. No one is convinced.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 minute ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

She wasn't proved wrong. No one is convinced.

According to you it was MMD who killed Rhaego and Dany killed her for that. While in her PoV Dany has told that Jorah killed him and she had left him alive. Also there is no conclusive proof that MMD did it, the only thing we have is her expressing her happiness for Rhaego's death which is understandable.