Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Tywin et al. said: I'm not so sure about that. The ACA is polling really well right now. One poll had it as high as 55% approval. The smart approach is to let the people on the far right propose a repeal bill that's DoA and then let the moderates work with Democrats to fix the ACA. But that doesn't matter, not in the least. It matters to Trump (in theory), and it matters to potentially certain governors, but do you think it matters to, say, Oklahoma congresspeople? To Alabamans, who believe that if you get sick, it's your fault for leading a bad life? They don't give a shit, because that's not what gets them elected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Yeah, I'm not saying we're not fucked (I think all the examples you lay out here are valid reasons as to why we are) but this one example is kind of shining a bit. It's almost starting to feel like this issue could become (if it hasn't already) another 3rd rail that the Right is just not going to be able to fuck with. Yeah, it means every 30 years or so after a massive, super harmful collapse we'll get a somewhat less shitty bill that will be hard to remove for a while. YAY PROGRESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Here's another one, in response to Jimmy Kimmel's heartfelt speech about his child's heart condition. Again - 40% of the population of the US think this is not only not horrible, but legitimately good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 8 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Here's another one, in response to Jimmy Kimmel's heartfelt speech about his child's heart condition. Again - 40% of the population of the US think this is not only not horrible, but legitimately good. Until some of that 40% is faced with the same circumstance. And hey, the jokes on them for the time being. Joe Walsh will be paying for somebody else's healthcare, at least for the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Until some of that 40% is faced with the same circumstance. And hey, the jokes on them for the time being. Joe Walsh will be paying for somebody else's healthcare, at least for the foreseeable future. Nah, even that 40% believe strongly that if they got sick it's their fault, somehow. And maybe they can pray it away, or they can put out a GoFundMe, or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Kalbear said: Nah, even that 40% believe strongly that if they got sick it's their fault, somehow. And maybe they can pray it away, or they can put out a GoFundMe, or whatever. I don't think that's true, at least not across the board. We've already seen a fair amount of those Trump voter Buyer's Remorse stories regarding the impending doom of their healthcare. I have to think that the possibilities have sobered at least a small percentage of his base. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I don't think that's true, at least not across the board. We've already seen a fair amount of those Trump voter Buyer's Remorse stories regarding the impending doom of their healthcare. I have to think that the possibilities have sobered at least a small percentage of his base. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. 96% of the Trump voters surveyed said that they made the right choice voting for him. 96%. You are a dreamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Kalbear said: 96% of the Trump voters surveyed said that they made the right choice voting for him. 96%. You are a dreamer. I've been called worse. At least 96% worse. Lulz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: I just can't believe the GOP is trying to vote on a health care bill that the CBO hasn't even scored. I realize that the CBO score was absolutely devastating to getting Trumpcare passed in March, but embracing the solution of not having CBO score such an important bill is just ridiculous. If you have to hide from what the bill actually does, why are you in such a hurry to pass it? They have to pass the bill, in order to find out what's in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fez Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, Kalbear said: 96% of the Trump voters surveyed said that they made the right choice voting for him. 96%. You are a dreamer. 96% of Trump voters still willing to admit they voted for him said they have no regrets. We have no idea how many Trump voters aren't willing to admit they voted for him anymore. It could be many, it could be very few; but there is some amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Swordfish said: They have to pass the bill, in order to find out what's in it. The CBO absolutely scored the ACA prior to voting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Maithanet said: The CBO absolutely scored the ACA prior to voting. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Fez said: 96% of Trump voters still willing to admit they voted for him said they have no regrets. We have no idea how many Trump voters aren't willing to admit they voted for him anymore. It could be many, it could be very few; but there is some amount. https://az616578.vo.msecnd.net/files/responsive/cover/main/desktop/2015/07/31/635739722929348256329587656_86d4980acf1b1c3f7aef9f3c1024508d.jpg /Obligatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Oh hey, and no surprise about Joe Walsh not wanting to pay for your kids, apparently he owes 117k + in back child support to his ex-wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Kalbear said: But that doesn't matter, not in the least. It matters to Trump (in theory), and it matters to potentially certain governors, but do you think it matters to, say, Oklahoma congresspeople? To Alabamans, who believe that if you get sick, it's your fault for leading a bad life? They don't give a shit, because that's not what gets them elected. At the moment, no, but I'm working under the assumption that Republicans won't get anything through both the House and the Senate before 2018, and if that's the case, a lot of Republicans in the Senate might be tempted to work with Democrats to fix the ACA rather than accomplish nothing and get massacred in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Just now, Tywin et al. said: At the moment, no, but I'm working under the assumption that Republicans won't get anything through both the House and the Senate before 2018, and if that's the case, a lot of Republicans in the Senate might be tempted to work with Democrats to fix the ACA rather than accomplish nothing and get massacred in 2020. What makes you think there will be a massacre? What makes you think that accomplishing nothing will cause a massacre? I mean, looking at prior evidence, accomplishing nothing was a sign of success. McConnell et al ran a very successful campaign on accomplishing nothing. They certainly weren't punished for it by any stretch of the imagination. Another argument: can you reasonably say that people will choose to vote against the party that they align with because their candidate accomplished nothing? Is that something that you would bet on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcbigski Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 Well, I have no regrets over voting for Trump. For over 100 days as President, he has consistently not been Hilary. And the press seems to be in a competition among themselves to see who can trash their own credibility fastest with histrionics, which in my mind is a win for the Republic long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 11 minutes ago, Kalbear said: What makes you think there will be a massacre? What makes you think that accomplishing nothing will cause a massacre? The map is pretty favorable for Dems in 2020. 11 minutes ago, Kalbear said: I mean, looking at prior evidence, accomplishing nothing was a sign of success. McConnell et al ran a very successful campaign on accomplishing nothing. They certainly weren't punished for it by any stretch of the imagination. They were in the minority for a long time, so it mattered a lot less then. And even when they had both chambers of Congress many people viewed them as being the party that held less power. Now with unified control the expectations will change, and they will eat the lion's share of the blame if nothing gets done. 17 minutes ago, Kalbear said: Another argument: can you reasonably say that people will choose to vote against the party that they align with because their candidate accomplished nothing? Is that something that you would bet on? Not necessarily, but turnout was down for Dems in 2016. Expect that to change in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, mcbigski said: Well, I have no regrets over voting for Trump. For over 100 days as President, he has consistently not been Hilary. And the press seems to be in a competition among themselves to see who can trash their own credibility fastest with histrionics, which in my mind is a win for the Republic long term. /Bless your soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: The map is pretty favorable for Dems in 2020. It's equally disfavorable to Dems in 2018. Quote They were in the minority for a long time, so it mattered a lot less then. And even when they had both chambers of Congress many people viewed them as being the party that held less power. Now with unified control the expectations will change, and they will eat the lion's share of the blame if nothing gets done. They were in the minority for a while, but McConnell's obstruction happened when they were in the majority - and that was a key reason why Trump actually won - it was a feature. People thought that others would care about things like a government shutdown and the sequestration, and they just don't. The best predictor of election results continues to be partisan rank. Quote Not necessarily, but turnout was down for Dems in 2016. Expect that to change in 2020. Why? Dems don't turn out unless they have someone popular to vote for. Turnout for Kerry in 2004 wasn't particularly strong, and that was in theory with a hated Republican. Hell, turnout wasn't enough to get Osoff voted in, and that was with only 100 days of Trump in office and everyone hating his ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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