Season 8: News, Spoilers And Leaks

[Ser Gareth]

50 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

GRRM said he was surprised by how LOTR had so much story left after the ring was destroyed. Maybe the NK is the generic fantasy threat that will be defeated by Bran earlier than expected? The take over of the Shire by Saruman is pretty much what I see Dany doing, and she would be resisted. The official poster and promos for this season, #FortheThrone, suggests politics. I dont see it melting away like the Tarlys! lol

Originally there was going to be a whole book after the war with the Others had ended.  GRRM has since scrapped that idea but I am confident there will be more to the story than defeating the Others.  The last book was originally given the working title of A Time for Wolves.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

That would be a terrible idea IMO.

Everyone has an opinion.

[NonoNono]

  Melisandre supposedly controls an army of wights at some point, wouldn’t surprise me that she stops the NK’s advance herself. But the NK himself I think would not die without another to take his place, maybe not right away but before the end of the story. A prince was promised to someone and I think it would either be to the CotF or the NK himself. Ep5 is the attack by a dragon on KL, likely Drogon. Ep 4 and 6 are big unknowns.

[Juligen]

6 hours ago, Nowy Tends said:

Oh, she brings the North to the King in the North, the guy who was chosen by the Northener Lords? Seriously?

 

I am sorry, this makes no sense. Jon was named King because he had "the blood of Ned Stark in his veins" he was named because the Lords believed he was Ned's bastard son. They will all find out now that this was not true. Jon has no rights over the North, none. He was just Ned Stark little sister son. 

Its Sansa who will be in charge of the North now.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

22 minutes ago, prettylongclaw said:

I am sorry, this makes no sense. Jon was named King because he had "the blood of Ned Stark in his veins" he was named because the Lords believed he was Ned's bastard son. They will all find out now that this was not true. Jon has no rights over the North, none. He was just Ned Stark little sister son. 

Its Sansa who will be in charge of the North now.

LOL  So, Jon coming from a Northern Stark isn't good enough, so the North will give said North to an actual Northern Stark woman instead.  Yeah, that makes sense.

ETA:  It seems I left out the word woman one too many times.  Jon coming from a Northern Stark WOMAN isn't good enough.....so the North will give said North to.....an actual Northern Stark woman?  Yeah, that makes sense, LOL

[NonoNono]

2 hours ago, prettylongclaw said:

I am sorry, this makes no sense. Jon was named King because he had "the blood of Ned Stark in his veins" he was named because the Lords believed he was Ned's bastard son. They will all find out now that this was not true. Jon has no rights over the North, none. He was just Ned Stark little sister son. 

Its Sansa who will be in charge of the North now.

That seems correct, in the photos from the shoot in KL Jon was speaking to Cersei and no longer had his usual KitN breastplate. Jon will definitely have to give up the title to Sansa when divisions arise.

[Rose of Red Lake]

2 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

ETA:  It seems I left out the word woman one too many times.  Jon coming from a Northern Stark WOMAN isn't good enough.....so the North will give said North to.....an actual Northern Stark woman?  Yeah, that makes sense, LOL

It doesn't matter, they could declare independence and put all 3 Starks at the head as a triumvirate, they could declare Sansa queen like they seemed to want to do in S7. Bran is the heir but he has renounced the title, so now Winterfell goes to the eldest daughter, Sansa. The show and books have constantly emphasized that she is the "key to the North." What did you think that phrase meant?

[Lady Fevre Dream]

9 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It doesn't matter, they could declare independence and put all 3 Starks at the head as a triumvirate, they could declare Sansa queen like they seemed to want to do in S7. Bran is the heir but he has renounced the title, so now Winterfell goes to the eldest daughter, Sansa. The show and books have constantly emphasized that she is the "key to the North." What did you think that phrase meant?

Honestly?  That phrase and ideas like it come from men trying to use her and her Northern connections for themselves, usually while trying to murder members of her family to make it all happen.  I'm not sure why fans of Sansa want to take up their cause, quite frankly. 

 

[Rose of Red Lake]

4 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Honestly?  That phrase and ideas like it come from men trying to use her and her Northern connections for themselves, usually while trying to murder members of her family to make it all happen.  I'm not sure why fans of Sansa want to take up their cause, quite frankly. 

 

They're doing that because she holds power as the heir to Winterfell. 

The idea behind a Jon and Sansa marriage is that SHE decides how to use that power. You know Targaryens in the conquest married off the then-Lady of Winterfell to a child-king in the Vale? Sansa isn't going to wait around for Dany to do stuff like that.

Instead, Sansa flips the tables and uses a man's claim this time, to unite her claim in the North and Jon's claim in the South, so she doesn't have to bow to Dany or wait to be married off. It's the only way the Northerners would support being brought into the 7k again. It would be a callback to Daeron II and Mariah Martell. 

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

Craster's relationship with his daughters was a great foreshadowing for Jon's relationship with his sisters. I think marrying Sansa cannot be enough to rule the North so he needs to marry Arya too. As Targaryen, polygamy and incest are not unusual for Jon Snow. And he could marry their daughters to Bran to strengthen his claim in the North like Craster did.

By the way, he could also get support of Faceless assassins by marrying their former employee.

[teej6]

39 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

The show and books have constantly emphasized that she is the "key to the North." What did you think that phrase meant?

Can’t say what the phrase means in D&D’s version but in the books Sansa’s claim is generally used by the likes of the Lannisters, Tyrells, and LF. IIRC, none of the Northern houses even care for Sansa’s claim and would probably fight it saying she’s married to a Lannister (unless her marriage to Tyrion is annulled somehow). 

Moreover in the books, we have Robb telling Cat that he will not have Sansa inherit the North to which even Cat agrees. We know that Robb had his main Northern Lords affix their signatures/consent to his decision on who inherits the North. And it’s pretty safe to assume it’s not Sansa considering his conversation with Cat. Furthermore, currently the Northern lords are rallying behind Ned’s little girl, FArya not Sansa. They have grudgingly accepted the Boltons claim to Winterfell because of Ramsay’s marriage to FArya. None of them appear to be even making an attempt to find the whereabouts of Sansa (in contrast Manderly is trying to find Rickon).

Sansa’s claim in the books as of now is non-existent. I can’t say what GRRM has in store in the next two books but I strongly suspect it will be the Northerns either rallying behind Stannis (who in the books clearly does not eant Sansa to claim the North due to her association with the Lannisters) Rickon, or Jon.

[Leticia Stark]

42 minutes ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

Craster's relationship with his daughters was a great foreshadowing for Jon's relationship with his sisters. I think marrying Sansa cannot be enough to rule the North so he needs to marry Arya too. As Targaryen, polygamy and incest are not unusual for Jon Snow. And he could marry their daughters to Bran to strengthen his claim in the North like Craster did.

By the way, he could also get support of Faceless assassins by marrying their former employee.

I admit that you got my attention for a minute lmao

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

They're doing that because she holds power as the heir to Winterfell. 

The idea behind a Jon and Sansa marriage is that SHE decides how to use that power. You know Targaryens in the conquest married off the then-Lady of Winterfell to a child-king in the Vale? Sansa isn't going to wait around for Dany to do stuff like that.

Instead, Sansa flips the tables and uses a man's claim this time, to unite her claim in the North and Jon's claim in the South, so she doesn't have to bow to Dany or wait to be married off. It's the only way the Northerners would support being brought into the 7k again. It would be a callback to Daeron II and Mariah Martell. 

Everyone who called her the 'key to the North' did so to steal the North from her, not for her.  She is one of many potential heirs to WF, and that's only if the old rules still apply in regards to people and places.  LOL, you can read all the Westerosi history you want, do you think the Ds really are doing so?  Have they written this thing with Dany coming to town to play match maker and marriage broker?  Or, did she answer a plea from the North......for friggin' help?  Everyone can whine that Dany wanted to Jon to bend the knee, but....I recall Dany giving that up and saying she'd help.  That's when Jon bent the knee.  I also recall a Dany that wouldn't discuss the idea of her own heir until after the wars, I don't think she's coming to WF with a Harmony.Com test for everyone. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 hours ago, teej6 said:

Can’t say what the phrase means in D&D’s version but in the books Sansa’s claim is generally used by the likes of the Lannisters, Tyrells, and LF. IIRC, none of the Northern houses even care for Sansa’s claim and would probably fight it saying she’s married to a Lannister (unless her marriage to Tyrion is annulled somehow). 

Moreover in the books, we have Robb telling Cat that he will not have Sansa inherit the North to which even Cat agrees. We know that Robb had his main Northern Lords affix their signatures/consent to his decision on who inherits the North. And it’s pretty safe to assume it’s not Sansa considering his conversation with Cat. Furthermore, currently the Northern lords are rallying behind Ned’s little girl, FArya not Sansa. They have grudgingly accepted the Boltons claim to Winterfell because of Ramsay’s marriage to FArya. None of them appear to be even making an attempt to find the whereabouts of Sansa (in contrast Manderly is trying to find Rickon).

Sansa’s claim in the books as of now is non-existent. I can’t say what GRRM has in store in the next two books but I strongly suspect it will be the Northerns either rallying behind Stannis (who in the books clearly does not eant Sansa to claim the North due to her association with the Lannisters) Rickon, or Jon.

ITA with you post summarizing the Sansa as heir situation.  I have to say, I don't understand how people can use the book scenario to say that Sansa and Jon could end up together.  Unlike the show, Sansa is considered Tyrion's wife, and it will take a lot to break that, legally.  It's not impossible, but with Tyrion on the other side of the world, it won't be easy.  I don't see 6 episodes of show allowing time for this total 180 in story direction that isn't even set up in show or book, even with time travel and LF's orphaned teleporter. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I was going to bring some NEWS articles, but first, here's something I'd think most could agree on.  The opening credits and theme are cool, I still love them.  Here's an article about them from EW via Watchers.

http://watchersonthewall.com/see-steps-behind-creating-iconic-game-thrones-title-sequence/

https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-title-sequence-secrets/#westeros-writ-small

[Ser Gareth]

4 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It doesn't matter, they could declare independence and put all 3 Starks at the head as a triumvirate, they could declare Sansa queen like they seemed to want to do in S7. Bran is the heir but he has renounced the title, so now Winterfell goes to the eldest daughter, Sansa. The show and books have constantly emphasized that she is the "key to the North." What did you think that phrase meant?

I haven't been able to find it for years, but there was a Q&A with GRRM not long after ACOK.  One of the questioners stated that Sansa had lost her Starkness when Lady was killed and GRRM said that was a very perceptive observation.  It'll be interesting to see how her arc ends in light of that.

[Error-504]

9 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I could be reading this wrong, but the NK actor and Cogman  seemed to hint that the Others are defeated in Ep 3. Cogman called it the "final battle" in that episode. Now, I could be misreading that, but they also said a 50 min battle is boring, so I think they're keen to clear this off early. 

Episodes 4, 5, and 6 can go anywhere. I'd rather she go down fighting for her throne, fighting Jon, because he's in the way of it, than just save everyone and die (and how can she? The NK is fire resistant). She is essentially a metaphor for nukes in the story, and those have to be shown to be dangerous at some point - not helpful. Also, R+L= J has to have some impact. Weiss said the story is now about how people respond to the reveal.

Jon is no less a Stark after the reveal then he was before, only now he is not a bastard. Much ado about nothing...again. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

3 hours ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

Craster's relationship with his daughters was a great foreshadowing for Jon's relationship with his sisters. I think marrying Sansa cannot be enough to rule the North so he needs to marry Arya too. As Targaryen, polygamy and incest are not unusual for Jon Snow. And he could marry their daughters to Bran to strengthen his claim in the North like Craster did.

By the way, he could also get support of Faceless assassins by marrying their former employee.

He gets to keep Dany, too, right?  That would go without saying, I think. 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

I just realized that the Watchers write up that I posted above seems to imply that the designers of the opening credits can't wait for us to see something.  Something new?  Totally new, or old but altered?  Not sure, but I must admit, it's piqued my curiosity.  I want to take a better look at the EW article, but my first read of WotW made it seem optimistic.  That's different. 

[Error-504]

I can't wait until we are about 3 episodes in to this upcoming season, some of these people posting these whack-a-doodle theories are going to have some serious egg on their faces.