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Is Ned Stark really that honorble?

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3 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

Jon Arryn betrayed his king by not giving up his wards Eddard and Robert yes tho was it honorable to give them up his wards (why ned stark and Robert Baratheon where wards of jon arryn in the first place is a important issue.) to the mad king? debatable 

Aerys never demanded that Jon Arryn simply "give up his wards" to the Crown. He demanded that Jon Arryn kill them and send him their heads, which would have been a violation of Guest Right on Jon Arryn's part if he did it. The raven Aerys had sent put Jon Arryn in a terrible position, where he had to either curse himself and his family in the eyes of gods and men, or raise up in rebellion. Keep in mind that Robert and his House had done nothing at that point that was an act against the Crown. A case could be made that through his family Eddard needed to be questioned by the Crown because of Brandon Stark's threats but Robert and House Baratheon committed no crimes.

Fostering the heir to Storm's End and the second son of the Lord of Winterfell is no crime. If Aerys or the Crown had a problem with that they could have done something about it years ago. Aerys killing the Lord of Winterfell and his heir was stupid, it passed the position of the Warden of the North and Lord of Winterfell to a Stark he didn't have in his possession. Had he been smarter he would have kept Brandon or Rickard Stark as a hostage. It was the same stupid move Joffrey made when he had Eddard Stark executed.  Then again Aerys was mad, that or he wanted to bring ruin to his House and end it for good.

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2 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

if l + r = j is true and comes to light then everyone is going to look at jon snow as the product of rape. ( we don't even know the true story between lyanna and the prince. ) which bags the question would the northern bannermen want to fight for the starks to protect the last Targaryen basterd?  is it really honorable to protect even if it is your own blood a child that could if his true identity is revealed end up destroying your house. 

In the eyes of the Northman he is the son of The Honorable The Ned, doesn't matter bastard aon or just nephew, he was raised by him and we see how strong the foster bonds are through Bob, Ned and Jon.

Even if they see him as the product of a rape, again, he is kin to Honorable The Ned, son of Rickard the southron ambitious, who was killed because he is beloved Lyanna's father, the girl I suspect even Roose had some affection towards. 

Also, seeing your thread Robb the Raping Wolf, I suspect you are either trolling, or worse.

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5 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

 

Jon Arryn betrayed his king by not giving up his wards Eddard and Robert yes tho was it honorable to give them up his wards (why ned stark and Robert Baratheon where wards of jon arryn in the first place is a important issue.) to the mad king? debatable 

yes a wife he had robb, sansa, arya, bran and rickon with thus the consequences of his choice would grow. a fact that was not lost on him as he thinks to himself that if it would come to the life of jon snow or his true born... something a long the lines of he prayed he would never have to. also the evitable war that would come about if jon snows true parentage would become known. is it rely honorable to risk the lives of his northmen and kin for that of a basterd?

Kin > King, just ask Stannis. If he, out of all people went with the choice of kin over king(who is also not so distant kin) then there's no betrayal on Jon Arryn's part for defending his Ned and Bob who are his sons in all but blood.

Ned didn't even have his children when he made the decision, perhaps only Robb and he may not even be aware of his birth and survival. For all he knows Cat may die during childbirth, give only Stillborns to him, may even be barren or their children may not live to become adults. Apart from everything else Jon is also a potential heir(or spare if Benjen stays) to him even if he didn't give any thought into it.

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2 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

violation of Guest Right o

Not sure if it would be against Guest Right to kill a ward, given Theon wasn't under GR, but then again wasn't willing guest.

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8 hours ago, oakbloodthesap said:

they where pretenders to the throne

So, you support hanging of a three years old boy by Romanov dynasty.

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37 minutes ago, Kandrax said:

Not sure if it would be against Guest Right to kill a ward, given Theon wasn't under GR, but then again wasn't willing guest.

Theon being called a "ward" was just the Starks being nice about it. He was sentenced to be there as a hostage by the King to keep Balon in check. Theon only had the freedom of a ward because Ned allowed it. That's very different from being a foster son like Bobby and Ned. Jon had to agree to foster them and their parents had to agree to send them there. Walder Frey wanted his grandsons fostered with Jon Arryn but was turned down.

I'm not even sure if Bob and Ned were still technically his wards when Aerys sent the raven. They may have just been in the Vale to visit their foster father, as they both were around 20 and Robert was already the Lord of Storm's End. Either way though they both came to Jon Arryn's castle as honored guests and ate at his table and slept beneath his roof. Killing them without cause or trail seems to be a clear violation of Guest Right by definition. It didn't help matters that Aerys killed Jon Arryn's heir with Brandon and Rickard. Aerys and/or his handlers were begging for rebellion by the way they handled that, in my opinion. 

 

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5 hours ago, Ralphis Baratheon said:

Theon being called a "ward" was just the Starks being nice about it. He was sentenced to be there as a hostage by the King to keep Balon in check. Theon only had the freedom of a ward because Ned allowed it. That's very different from being a foster son like Bobby and Ned. Jon had to agree to foster them and their parents had to agree to send them there. Walder Frey wanted his grandsons fostered with Jon Arryn but was turned down.

I'm not even sure if Bob and Ned were still technically his wards when Aerys sent the raven. They may have just been in the Vale to visit their foster father, as they both were around 20 and Robert was already the Lord of Storm's End. Either way though they both came to Jon Arryn's castle as honored guests and ate at his table and slept beneath his roof. Killing them without cause or trail seems to be a clear violation of Guest Right by definition. It didn't help matters that Aerys killed Jon Arryn's heir with Brandon and Rickard. Aerys and/or his handlers were begging for rebellion by the way they handled that, in my opinion. 

 

Would GR be broken, had he sent them to Aerys?

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Ned was honourable. Honourable AND stupid. Seriously, he thought his honour worth more than a throne, and to some degree, his life

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1 hour ago, Natruviath said:

Ned was honourable. Honourable AND stupid. Seriously, he thought his honour worth more than a throne, and to some degree, his life

Honor by definition is worth more than life. Defeated Roman generals committed suicide to avoid humiliation of winner's triumphal parade…

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1 hour ago, Nowy Tends said:

Honor by definition is worth more than life. 

Seppuku.

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On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:58 PM, Angel Eyes said:

No it's not. It's saving his life. If Ned declared Jon a Targaryen, Robert would want the baby's head. Robert's satisfaction at the deaths of Rhaenys and Aegon cemented that for Ned. The laws of kin are older than those of a liege. Ned would consider himself a kinslayer if he gave the baby to Robert for execution, since Jon is his blood. Apart from breaking guest right, kinslaying is the worst thing a man can do. Might partly be why Maegor is considered Maegor the Cruel, since he murdered two of his nephews.

I' m sorry , but we must have gotten confused  I said " According to The Order of the Green Hand in their You Tube video they stated that Jon is the son of Eddard Stark and Ashara Dayne , and that they were married , making all the children with Catelyn , a flurry of little Snows. And I try to stay away from R+L=J , which I no longer believe .

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