NFL 2018 Draft: On The One Hand...

[sperry]

I think that Wentz is significantly better than Allen, and I'm not particularly high on Wentz. Wentz's poor accuracy combined with the fact that the Eagles won the Super Bowl without him are major red flags to me.

[Jace, Extat]

21 minutes ago, sperry said:

I think that Wentz is significantly better than Allen, and I'm not particularly high on Wentz. Wentz's poor accuracy combined with the fact that the Eagles won the Super Bowl without him are major red flags to me.

I've kept a low profile on this one but I actually am also a bit skeptical of Wentz. I don't think he's going to be a bust or anything, but I'm loathe to crown him as of yet.

[sperry]

9 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I've kept a low profile on this one but I actually am also a bit skeptical of Wentz. I don't think he's going to be a bust or anything, but I'm loathe to crown him as of yet.

Yeah, I see a lot of Joe Flacco in him.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, sperry said:

Yeah, I see a lot of Joe Flacco in him.

Mmmmph! That's a pretty strong charge! He's obviously way more athletic, but I'd want to review more tape on him before I could say such a mean and hateful thing.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I agree the jury is still out on Wentz, though would have won the MVP if he didn’t get hurt. It’s always hard to grade QBs when they’re surrounded by so much talent.

My biggest take away from the last two seasons is that if you have an above average QB, for the love of god build him a great O-Line.

[Prince of the North]

20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I agree the jury is still out on Wentz, though would have won the MVP if he didn’t get hurt. It’s always hard to grade QBs when they’re surrounded by so much talent.

My biggest take away from the last two seasons is that if you have an above average QB, for the love of god build him a great O-Line.

Definitely agreed on the at least "good" O-line.  Also, I agree that the jury's still out on Wentz.  I think he got off to a good start, of course, but we need to see more. Of course, I also think it would be difficult for a QB to be drafted into a much better situation than Wentz.  It's interesting to compare him and Goff on that.

Also, I always thought Wentz played a bit recklessly and exposed himself to hits too much.  He missed several games during his senior year of college with a throwing wrist injury as well.  I wonder if his play style will change a little bit after the knee injury?  I would think it should...  

[briantw]

Wentz benefited immensely from ending up on a talented team with a smart coach and a great system.  I have no doubt that, had he ended up on the Browns being coached by Hue Jackson's dumb ass, he would have ended up looking like almost as much of a bust as Kizer.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

Wentz benefited immensely from ending up on a talented team with a smart coach and a great system.  I have no doubt that, had he ended up on the Browns being coached by Hue Jackson's dumb ass, he would have ended up looking like almost as much of a bust as Kizer.

It's a real shame he didn't work out for you guys. I was an advocate of Jackson's back to his days in Oakland when it looked like he was raising Josh Campbell's career from the depths. I was SO MAD when that hideous spawn of Ugly fired him, I remember throwing a can of Lysol so hard it left a dent in my front door.

[briantw]

35 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

It's a real shame he didn't work out for you guys. I was an advocate of Jackson's back to his days in Oakland when it looked like he was raising Josh Campbell's career from the depths. I was SO MAD when that hideous spawn of Ugly fired him, I remember throwing a can of Lysol so hard it left a dent in my front door.

Jackson strikes me as someone who just refuses to adjust as the game changes.  He's set in his ways, and his ways have been passed by by the rest of the NFL, but he's still sticking to them.  He's also absolutely not a leader of men.  He throws his guys under the bus constantly and is always involved in power struggles with whatever front office employs him.  If he were an amazing coach, it'd be one thing, but I have no fucking idea how you let a guy who goes 1-31 over two seasons win a damn power struggle.

I will say that, if they take Allen, it'll be a classic Browns move to have two top four picks and then select the number five (at best) QB in the draft.

[Jace, Extat]

6 minutes ago, briantw said:

Jackson strikes me as someone who just refuses to adjust as the game changes.  He's set in his ways, and his ways have been passed by by the rest of the NFL, but he's still sticking to them.  He's also absolutely not a leader of men.  He throws his guys under the bus constantly and is always involved in power struggles with whatever front office employs him.  If he were an amazing coach, it'd be one thing, but I have no fucking idea how you let a guy who goes 1-31 over two seasons win a damn power struggle.

I will say that, if they take Allen, it'll be a classic Browns move to have two top four picks and then select the number five (at best) QB in the draft.

Chasing the ghost of Wentz rather than a future.

[briantw]

Just now, Pony Queen Jace said:

Chasing the ghost of Wentz rather than a future.

Which doesn't even make sense seeing as it's not even the same front office that passed on him.  Plus, watching the Eagles win the title pretty easily with their back-up leads me to believe that, while Wentz is good, we should probably pump the brakes on him being a top QB in the NFL until we get more evidence.  

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

Which doesn't even make sense seeing as it's not even the same front office that passed on him.  Plus, watching the Eagles win the title pretty easily with their back-up leads me to believe that, while Wentz is good, we should probably pump the brakes on him being a top QB in the NFL until we get more evidence.  

If it helps, the Colts are just as humiliating of late. And I've seen surprisingly little commentary on 0-16

[briantw]

Just now, Pony Queen Jace said:

If it helps, the Colts are just as humiliating of late. And I've seen surprisingly little commentary on 0-16

I'm still hopeful they don't take Allen.  I know one person who has some connections with Browns people and he's been adamant that he doesn't believe the Allen rumors for a second.  He thinks it'll be Rosen or Darnold.  I hope to god he's right.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Prince of the North said:

Also, I always thought Wentz played a bit recklessly and exposed himself to hits too much.  He missed several games during his senior year of college with a throwing wrist injury as well.  I wonder if his play style will change a little bit after the knee injury?  I would think it should...  

Yeah, Wentz’s reckless style of play is not sustainable over several years. He’s going to have to find a way to change that. The problem with that though is you might mess with his overall game. Look at RG3. Sure injuries played a huge role, but completely changing his style of play was a disaster too.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

33 minutes ago, briantw said:

I will say that, if they take Allen, it'll be a classic Browns move to have two top four picks and then select the number five (at best) QB in the draft.

JUST DRAFT TWO QBS, DUH!!!!

[Prince of the North]

16 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Yeah, Wentz’s reckless style of play is not sustainable over several years. He’s going to have to find a way to change that. The problem with that though is you might mess with his overall game. Look at RG3. Sure injuries played a huge role, but completely changing his style of play was a disaster too.

This made me wonder about how much Wentz rushed in college?  So I took a quick look.  My impression was that Wentz didn't rush very much in college (footballs, not fraternities, people!).  I guess that goes to show just how much anecdotal impressions are sometimes worth because he actually rushed quite a bit more in college than he has so far in the pros. 

I only looked at Wentz's last two college years when he was the starter.  In 2014 (full season), he averaged 8.6 rush/gm and in 2015 (played 7 games due to wrist injury) he averaged 9.0 rush/gm.  For the Eagles, Wentz averaged 2.9 rush/gm in his rookie season and 4.9 rush/gm last year.

So, I guess I would initially just point to level of defensive competition he was facing in college vs. the pros.  While some pretty good NFL players can and do come out of the FCS, those teams aren't quite at the same level as entire teams made up of as good or better athletes.  I mean, Wentz carried the ball 138 times without injury in his 2014 college season  That probably(Cam Newton excepted) ain't happenin' in the NFL!    

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Were those designed runs or just scrambles from a broken pocket? 

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Were those designed runs or just scrambles from a broken pocket? 

I had a broken pocket once. It was a real problem. I kept putting stuff in it and getting punched in the tit by a gorilla.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Pony Queen Jace said:

I had a broken pocket once. It was a real problem. I kept putting stuff in it and getting punched in the tit by a gorilla.

Odd fashion decision to be honest.

[sperry]

9 hours ago, Triskele said:

Wentz is Rothlisburger at worst.  

Wentz will have to improve his accuracy dramatically for that to be the case. He has time to do so, but it's not a given. His deficiencies are being masked by the absurd talent he is surrounded by.

 

 

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/11/17224760/josh-allen-cleveland-browns-analytics-nfl-draft

 

An interesting article, showing that Josh Allen will be one of the worst quarterbacks ever to be drafted in the 1st round. Baker Mayfield is one of the best QB prospects of the past 20 years and is not getting acknowledged as such.