Ser Sandor Clegane?

[Clegane'sPup]

Sandor has a bit of a problem. Because someone wearing his hound helm was  committing atrocities. Then another someone took the helm and is using it.  People in story think that Sandor is a marauding outlaw killer when actually lame/injured Sandor is on the Quite Isle.

For those who are not aware the below two quotes are what gave rise to the idea that Sandor is the grave digger.

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VI      On the upper slopes they saw three boys driving sheep, and higher still they passed a lichyard where a brother bigger than Brienne was struggling to dig a grave. From the way he moved, it was plain to see that he was lame. As he flung a spadeful of the stony soil over one shoulder, some chanced to spatter against their feet. "Be more watchful there," chided Brother Narbert. "Septon Meribald might have gotten a mouthful of dirt." The gravedigger lowered his head. When Dog went to sniff him he dropped his spade and scratched his ear./

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VI     "I buried him myself. I can tell you where his grave lies, if you wish. I covered him with stones to keep the carrion eaters from digging up his flesh, and set his helm atop the cairn to mark his final resting place. That was a grievous error. Some other wayfarer found my marker and claimed it for himself. The man who raped and killed at Saltpans was not Sandor Clegane, though he may be as dangerous. The riverlands are full of such scavengers. I will not call them wolves. Wolves are nobler than that . . . and so are dogs, I think./

That FfC Brienne chapter was packed with info as exhibited below. Sandor is summed up this way:

A Feast for Crows - Brienne VI     He was Prince Joffrey's sworn shield for many a year, and even here we would hear tell of his deeds, both good and ill. If even half of what we heard was true, this was a bitter, tormented soul, a sinner who mocked both gods and men. He served, but found no pride in service. He fought, but took no joy in victory. He drank, to drown his pain in a sea of wine. He did not love, nor was he loved himself. It was hate that drove him. Though he committed many sins, he never sought forgiveness. Where other men dream of love, or wealth, or glory, this man Sandor Clegane dreamed of slaying his own brother, a sin so terrible it makes me shudder just to speak of it. Yet that was the bread that nourished him, the fuel that kept his fires burning. Ignoble as it was, the hope of seeing his brother's blood upon his blade was all this sad and angry creature lived for . . . and even that was taken from him, when Prince Oberyn of Dorne stabbed Ser Gregor with a poisoned spear."/

Merely my personal opinion but the above quote is quite telling. It makes me wonder if Sandor gave a confession of sorts to the Elder Brother like Brienne did at the end of that chapter.

Sandor is not only known by his helm.  He is know by his size and height. He is known by his scarred face.  If martin takes the lame/injured Sandor off the isle, Sandor will have to outwit his hunters. If Sandor's leg does not heal completely it will hinder his prowess as a fighter.

Sandor can live a peaceful life on the isle. I would prefer martin leaves Sandor there.

In DwD I am given a short partially correct synopsis of what has transpired in the previous four books:

A Dance with Dragons - Davos II     Tywin Lannister was dead, butchered by his dwarf son; his corpse had stunk so badly that no one had been able to enter the Great Sept of Baelor for days afterward; the Lady of the Eyrie had been murdered by a singer; Littlefinger ruled the Vale now, but Bronze Yohn Royce had sworn to bring him down; Balon Greyjoy had died as well, and his brothers were fighting for the Seastone Chair; Sandor Clegane had turned outlaw and was plundering and killing in the lands along the Trident; Myr and Lys and Tyrosh were embroiled in another war; a slave revolt was raging in the east./

Again a personal opinion --- no, Sandor will not be knighted.  Yes, circumstances may cause people to contemplate life and may bring forth change but sometimes long held convictions do not change;    as in I walked away from institutional religion but I did not walk away from my conviction that god is love and the seven deadly sins are the bane of humanity.

The below quotes are why I do not think Sandor will not change his mind and become knighted.

A Clash of Kings - Sansa IV    "Just as if I was one of those true knights you love so well, yes. What do you think a knight is for, girl? You think it's all taking favors from ladies and looking fine in gold plate? Knights are for killing." He laid the edge of his longsword against her neck, just under her ear. Sansa could feel the sharpness of the steel. "I killed my first man at twelve. I've lost count of how many I've killed since then. High lords with old names, fat rich men dressed in velvet, knights puffed up like bladders with their honors, yes, and women and children too—they're all meat, and I'm the butcher. Let them have their lands and their gods and their gold. Let them have their sers." Sandor Clegane spat at her feet to show what he thought of that. "So long as I have this," he said, lifting the sword from her throat, "there's no man on earth I need fear."/

A Game of Thrones - Sansa V      The Hound's scarred face was hard to read. He took a long moment to consider. "Why not? I have no lands nor wife to forsake, and who'd care if I did?" The burned side of his mouth twisted. "But I warn you, I'll say no knight's vows."    "The Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard have always been knights," Ser Boros said firmly.   "Until now," the Hound said in his deep rasp, and Ser Boros fell silent./

 

[zandru]

20 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

Dude, I was the one who leaned (however slightly) on the text.  You did not do so at all., and have no interest in those parts in my references to the text. 

Well, just because I don't quote blocks of text (mark it down to laziness) doesn't mean I'm unaware of them. And, as I think I've noted before, I saw what you quoted - and disagreed with your interpretation of it. Neither one of us will convince the other. I'm awaiting George's next words on the topic. (And awaiting, and awaiting ... I must have read 50+ other books so far while "awaiting".)

[Platypus Rex]

31 minutes ago, zandru said:

Well, just because I don't quote blocks of text (mark it down to laziness) doesn't mean I'm unaware of them. And, as I think I've noted before, I saw what you quoted - and disagreed with your interpretation of it. Neither one of us will convince the other. I'm awaiting George's next words on the topic. (And awaiting, and awaiting ... I must have read 50+ other books so far while "awaiting".)

That's fair enough.  You are under no obligation to write essays for my benefit. 

But it was still, I think, fair of me to point out that the particular objection you took time to write has nothing to do with the text.

[Universal Sword Donor]

On 9/16/2018 at 11:43 AM, Firefae said:

I hope Cleganebowl won't happen at all. I'm actually of the ( seemingly?) unpopular opinion that Cleganebowl is really cheap.  That thing isn't his brother anymore. And besides, Sandor found a real true brother in The Elder Brother.

I think Sandor has a lot more potential than just Cleganebowl. A lot of people focus on Sandor's martial skills but forget that is actually a very resourceful and witty guy. And he would be lost with Cleganebowl because I don't think Sandor can win a fight against SRS with a lame leg.

GRRM isn't a writer who magically heals his disabled characters. Bran will never walk again, Jaime won't grow a new hand, etc. So why would he handwave Sandor's disability away?

I mean, he does bring back multiple characters from the dead.

[Clegane'sPup]

Cleganebowl was brought up and I decided I wanted to yammer a bit.

This has been my problem with Cleganebowl chatter --- Sandor had the opportunity to kill his brother free and clear --- Sandor didn't take the opportunity --- it would have been self defense not kin slaying.

A Game of Thrones - Eddard VII    The courser dashed away in panic as Ser Loras lay stunned in the dirt. But as Gregor lifted his sword for the killing blow, a rasping voice warned, "Leave him be," and a steel-clad hand wrenched him away from the boy.     The Mountain pivoted in wordless fury, swinging his longsword in a killing arc with all his massive strength behind it, but the Hound caught the blow and turned it, and for what seemed an eternity the two brothers stood hammering at each other as a dazed Loras Tyrell was helped to safety. Thrice Ned saw Ser Gregor aim savage blows at the hound's-head helmet, yet not once did Sandor send a cut at his brother's unprotected face./

[chrisdaw]

It is called a character arc, not a character straight trajectory. Shit changes, the character changes, that's the whole point of it. Characters grow, learn stuff.

Releasing UnGregor from his undead servitude will be a mercy. This mercy is a thematic point of the series (specifically revolving around Arya, and Sandor is primarily a Sansa/Arya teacher).

Quote

The truth is, no one knows. Whoever he was, he moved amongst the slaves and would hear them at their prayers. Men of a hundred different nations labored in the mines, and each prayed to his own god in his own tongue, yet all were praying for the same thing. It was release they asked for, an end to pain. A small thing, and simple. Yet their gods made no answer, and their suffering went on. Are their gods all deaf? he wondered . . . until a realization came upon him, one night in the red darkness.

"All gods have their instruments, men and women who serve them and help to work their will on earth. The slaves were not crying out to a hundred different gods, as it seemed, but to one god with a hundred different faces . . . and he was that god's instrument. That very night he chose the most wretched of the slaves, the one who had prayed most earnestly for release, and freed him from his bondage. The first gift had been given."

Arya drew back from him. "He killed the slave?" That did not sound right. "He should have killed the masters!"

"He would bring the gift to them as well . . . but that is a tale for another day, one best shared with no one." He cocked his head. "And who are you, child?"

Get it? This is the lesson GRRM is planning with Sandor and UnGregor.

Quote

"Don't lie," he growled. "I hate liars. I hate gutless frauds even worse. Go on, do it." When Arya did not move, he said, "I killed your butcher's boy. I cut him near in half, and laughed about it after." He made a queer sound, and it took her a moment to realize he was sobbing. "And the little bird, your pretty sister, I stood there in my white cloak and let them beat her. I took the bloody song, she never gave it. I meant to take her too. I should have. I should have fucked her bloody and ripped her heart out before leaving her for that dwarf." A spasm of pain twisted his face. "Do you mean to make me beg, bitch? Do it! The gift of mercy . . . avenge your little Michael . . ."

"Mycah." Arya stepped away from him. "You don't deserve the gift of mercy."

Arya refused the Hound mercy. It was a bitter act she did from a place of hate and anger.

Quote

The Titan's eyes seemed brighter now, and farther apart. Arya did not know any Many-Faced God, but if he answered prayers, he might be the god she sought. Ser Gregor, she thought, Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei. Only six now. Joffrey was dead, the Hound had slain Polliver, and she'd stabbed the Tickler herself, and that stupid squire with the pimple. I wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't grabbed me. The Hound had been dying when she left him on the banks of the Trident, burning up with fever from his wound. I should have given him the gift of mercy and put a knife into his heart.

One she comes to regret.

When Sandor discovers his brother has become a tormented undead killing machine locked in servitude to evil, Sandor will move to release him. It will be a benevolent act, to provide him the gift of mercy. Because Sandor is set to become a changed character, to let go of his anger and hate, because Gregor is his brother and because he understands what it is like to be denied the gift of mercy. He is to teach Arya to be better than what she is, to show her everyone deserves mercy and that even he, the angry Hound, has the capacity for change and to let go of his anger and hate and desire for revenge and become merciful.

[Clegane'sPup]

17 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

It is called a character arc, not a character straight trajectory. Shit changes, the character changes, that's the whole point of it. Characters grow, learn stuff.

Releasing UnGregor from his undead servitude will be a mercy. This mercy is a thematic point of the series (specifically revolving around Arya, and Sandor is primarily a Sansa/Arya teacher).

Get it? This is the lesson GRRM is planning with Sandor and UnGregor.

Arya refused the Hound mercy. It was a bitter act she did from a place of hate and anger.

One she comes to regret.

When Sandor discovers his brother has become a tormented undead killing machine locked in servitude to evil, Sandor will move to release him. It will be a benevolent act, to provide him the gift of mercy. Because Sandor is set to become a changed character, to let go of his anger and hate, because Gregor is his brother and because he understands what it is like to be denied the gift of mercy. He is to teach Arya to be better than what she is, to show her everyone deserves mercy and that even he, the angry Hound, has the capacity for change and to let go of his anger and hate and desire for revenge and become merciful.

Oh, if I reading and comprehending your post correctly ---- Cleganebowl is about Sandor taking pity upon his brother and putting Gregor down like a rabid animal or granting mercy to his brother?

 

[chrisdaw]

2 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Oh, if I reading and comprehending your post correctly ---- Cleganebowl is about Sandor taking pity upon his brother and putting Gregor down like a rabid animal or granting mercy to his brother?

 

yes

[Platypus Rex]

I don't believe in any version of CleganeBowl, including the mercy-killing version, mainly because  I expect the plan is for Sandor to not be recognized next time he is seen.  He will be doing things that we would not naturally or automatically expect Sandor to do, like, for instance, slaying a fire-breathing dragon.

If "The Hound" takes on Gregor, that "Hound" will turn out to be someone other than Sandor.