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Iskaral Pust

Exercise and Fitness: bro science debunked

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On 5/31/2019 at 10:10 PM, Iskaral Pust said:

Ironically, considering the recent discussion of Trisk’s tendinitis, I felt an unpleasant elbow tendon strain during pull-ups on Wednesday.  In one set I used a much wider grip for variation but it definitely caused a strain (but I don’t get a similar problem with a similarly wide grip in pull-downs).  I’ve been massaging since to try to allow it to heal before it becomes a real problem.

Speaking of, my lifting addiction has me back to thinking I can continue to try to work around this thing.  Last weekend I did something idiotic that had me thinking I just had to give up weights for weeks to see how it goes, but upon reflection I'm hoping it was just a blunder that I can learn from.  

I was doing push day and there were no benches open with the full bar, so I decided to do include dumbbell bench press.  I grabbed a couple of 65 lbs. units but as I got back onto the inclined bench just out of force of old habit I more-or-less lifted them up to the bench position using a curling motion, one of the motions I ought to have known I should not do and with way more weight than I'd have ever picked up for a hammer curl itself.  

But this weekend I had a great leg day and great push day, and I felt like I did minimal aggravation to the elbow.  I'm going to try to refocus on grip strength as a way to fix the elbow issue as a significant chunk of the internet seems to think that's a key.  So this weekend I did a full set of farmer's walk that really felt like it was hitting the grip strength hard, and on flat bench today (with a full bar) I focused on really squeezing the bar which I've seen recommended both for benching more and for improving grip strength.

I've continued to do hangs and in the last several months I've really improved this to where I can hang for a minute fairly easily (some of this is weight loss and not just grip strength).  But today for the first time I tried to do one-armed hangs.  Man, it's not surprising that one cannot do the same as with two arms.  But the difference for me right now is enormous.  It was a struggle to get to five seconds and I feel right around ten with either arm.  But this seems like another potential exercise for the grip strength.  I would feel like quite the simian indeed if I could one-arm hang for 30 seconds plus.  Long way to go.  

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After having my left wrist in a cast for two weeks, 10 sessions of physical therapy, weeks of icing blah blah blah I have finally given in and had a shot to remove my tendons inflammation. Now I'm hating myself for not going that way immediately. All this time didn't have to go to waste.

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Weighed myself at the weekend - bang on 73 KG, which is probably the lightest I've been since high school. Not bad at all really. Still a bit of fat to trim around the midriff, but overall I'm pretty content as long as I continue to tone up. Perhaps I need to put more focus on weights now.

Running wise, last week was a great week. After my mile PB on the Tuesday I went out and ran a 5k PB on the Wednesday, knocked over 30 seconds off my time and finally broke into sub-22 (21:31). Absolutely chuffed at that, although my runs since have been relatively chill. 

Also got a GoPro recently - can't wait to get a harness and take it for a spin in a national park or something.

 

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On 5/27/2019 at 8:23 PM, Triskele said:

Thanks, man, I'll take a look at the aptly named simien. 

 

Does anyone have any experience to share on trying to cut / lose weight while maintaining muscle mass or at least minimizing muscle loss?  The internet seems to basically say maintain something in the ballpark of that 1 grams protein per lbs of body weight.  Thinking I may need to mix in a few mini protein shakes between breakfast, lunch, and dinner throughout this process.  But it's also occurring to me that I might have really underdone it in protein these last several months when I'd been lifting hard.  For while I've typically done a solid amount of protein at every lunch and dinnfer like chicken or salmon I've not done any supplementation and think now I could have only been doing like 100 grams a day give-or-take.  

Iirc, grams per pound myth is because Americans are bad at the metric system. The research was naturally all done in metric— grams of protein per KILOgram of body weight—and Americans just did not do the conversion (and or ignored the units of measure) and “rounded” it to 1 gram per lb.... the protein industry was very happy about this development and has encouraged it.

long story short, the research indicates it is less than 1 gram per lb.

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1 hour ago, lokisnow said:

Iirc, grams per pound myth is because Americans are bad at the metric system. The research was naturally all done in metric— grams of protein per KILOgram of body weight—and Americans just did not do the conversion (and or ignored the units of measure) and “rounded” it to 1 gram per lb.... the protein industry was very happy about this development and has encouraged it.

long story short, the research indicates it is less than 1 gram per lb.

I've seen plenty of debate in these online spaces about just how much protein is the right level, and it seems to range from like 0.8 grams per lb. of body weight to 1.2 grams per lb. of body weight.  I would love what you're saying to be true because it would be such a great story.

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15 hours ago, Triskele said:

I've seen plenty of debate in these online spaces about just how much protein is the right level, and it seems to range from like 0.8 grams per lb. of body weight to 1.2 grams per lb. of body weight.  I would love what you're saying to be true because it would be such a great story.

You are safe in assuming it is between 0.4532 grams per lb and the above mentioned 0.7 grams per lb.

for a 200 lb adult male, the lower bound works out to 91 grams of protein per day.

how many grams of dietary protein do you think your body can convert to growing new muscle mass per day? (hint it is not In a fixed ratio with increasing levels of dietary protein, it is very much a capped or severely diminishing returns scenario)

Edited by lokisnow

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The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

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16 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

Personally, if I was dieting, I wouldn't want to cut my protein down relatively. I'd actually want my protein intake to be even higher during a cutting phase, so to preserve as much muscle as possible. I'd rather enter a calorie deficit by lowering carb intake and upping protein intake, rather than lowering both.

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I had delicious but very unhealthy Indian food -- from a restaurant, naturally -- in two of the last three evenings, and promptly gained 3lbs of what I hope is water weight from the salt-fueled water retention.  I need to clean up my eating again.  I was feeling great at 180-181lbs, now feeling miserable at 183-4lbs just a few days later.  I still have more of the Indian food in the fridge for leftovers, but I think I need to toss it out.  Both nights I couldn't sleep well as my body went nuclear hot from the overload of calories and salt.

I definitely notice that weight gain comes from too much restaurant food moreso than eating dessert after home-cooked meals.  The amount of additional calories and sodium in restaurant food must be insane.

Edit: workouts are still going well though.

Edited by Iskaral Pust

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19 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I had delicious but very unhealthy Indian food -- from a restaurant, naturally -- in two of the last three evenings, and promptly gained 3lbs of what I hope is water weight from the salt-fueled water retention.  I need to clean up my eating again.  I was feeling great at 180-181lbs, now feeling miserable at 183-4lbs just a few days later.  I still have more of the Indian food in the fridge for leftovers, but I think I need to toss it out.  Both nights I couldn't sleep well as my body went nuclear hot from the overload of calories and salt.

I definitely notice that weight gain comes from too much restaurant food moreso than eating dessert after home-cooked meals.  The amount of additional calories and sodium in restaurant food must be insane.

Edit: workouts are still going well though.

I'm surprised you can notice such a small difference. 

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19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm surprised you can notice such a small difference. 

I weigh myself most mornings but I could feel the difference before I set foot on the scale.  That much sodium leaves me feeling bloated.  I can feel that my wedding ring is tighter on my finger, and I have to wear my belt one notch looser for a couple of days until I've flushed out the sodium.

I can typically see a 2lb difference in the mirror too.

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Anyone have experience with elastic shoelaces? I swapped mine out for traditional shoelaces when I bought my new pair of shoes because I felt it was too loose as I tend to tie my shoes very tight even for walking, but the traditional shoelaces comes untied more regularly than expected and is also hard to tie tightly consistently.

I'm trying to determine if I should get used to elastic shoelaces or if I should just stick to what I'm comfortable with despite it being increasingly frustrating. :unsure:

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6 hours ago, Proudfeet said:

Anyone have experience with elastic shoelaces? I swapped mine out for traditional shoelaces when I bought my new pair of shoes because I felt it was too loose as I tend to tie my shoes very tight even for walking, but the traditional shoelaces comes untied more regularly than expected and is also hard to tie tightly consistently.

I'm trying to determine if I should get used to elastic shoelaces or if I should just stick to what I'm comfortable with despite it being increasingly frustrating. :unsure:

First use flat rather than round laces. They don't slip as much. If slippage is still a problem, then try a double knot. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:11 AM, Tywin et al. said:

The amount of weight I need to still lose for a wedding is so minimal that it does change my intake at all, but I've always wondered, if you're trying to lose or gain weight, say like 30 pounds, should you calculate your protein intake with those in mind or just your current weight?

You'd use your goal weight. 

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On 6/5/2019 at 1:44 AM, lokisnow said:

You are safe in assuming it is between 0.4532 grams per lb and the above mentioned 0.7 grams per lb.

for a 200 lb adult male, the lower bound works out to 91 grams of protein per day.

how many grams of dietary protein do you think your body can convert to growing new muscle mass per day? (hint it is not In a fixed ratio with increasing levels of dietary protein, it is very much a capped or severely diminishing returns scenario)

My understanding is that range is likely sufficient for a non-athlete in maintenance mode (basically the old 'half your body weight in grams of protein'). 

If you are trying to build or maintain a strong physique I'd look at the 0.8-1.3 range. I don't think that is a controversial statement. In my own experience, I note a significant, positive difference in my performance when I'm at the higher end of that but I wouldn't dispute there's a case of diminishing returns. But some return is still OK even if it's diminished... Saying that, going way beyond the upper range probably serves no purpose unless you are on gear. 

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33 minutes ago, Scott_N said:

You'd use your goal weight. 

Idk if it’s that cut and dried. I can see the argument if you’re trying to bulk up, but not necessarily if you’re trying to drop a decent amount of weight.  

4 hours ago, maarsen said:

First use flat rather than round laces. They don't slip as much. If slippage is still a problem, then try a double knot. 

I always double lace when working out, whether it’s lifting, running or going for a casual bike ride.   

16 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

I weigh myself most mornings but I could feel the difference before I set foot on the scale.  That much sodium leaves me feeling bloated.  I can feel that my wedding ring is tighter on my finger, and I have to wear my belt one notch looser for a couple of days until I've flushed out the sodium.

I can typically see a 2lb difference in the mirror too.

I’m pretty sure that it’s recommended that you don’t weigh yourself on a daily basis. I’ve always been instructed to do it once a week, at the exact same time and day. There’s too much variance doing it every day.

That said, I don’t think I could ever notice that small of a shift, even when I was looking like Brad Pitt in Fight Club.   

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29 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk if it’s that cut and dried. I can see the argument if you’re trying to bulk up, but not necessarily if you’re trying to drop a decent amount of weight.  

I would imagine it depends on what your goals are. If you are just trying to lose 30lbs of weight, maybe entering a calorie deficit is more important than specifically tracking your macro-nutrient consumption, such as protein, within that calorie deficit. 

If you are a physique competitor, for instance, who has gained a lot of weight, but wants cut weight and body fat to compete, entering a calorie deficit and tracking your macro-nutrient consumption would be vital. When in a deficit, you want to preserve as much muscle as possible. In order to do that, you'd have to keep your protein consumption high, and enter the calorie deficit by lowering calories consumed through carbohydrates and fats. 

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Idk if it’s that cut and dried. I can see the argument if you’re trying to bulk up, but not necessarily if you’re trying to drop a decent amount of weight.  

I always double lace when working out, whether it’s lifting, running or going for a casual bike ride.   

I’m pretty sure that it’s recommended that you don’t weigh yourself on a daily basis. I’ve always been instructed to do it once a week, at the exact same time and day. There’s too much variance doing it every day.

That said, I don’t think I could ever notice that small of a shift, even when I was looking like Brad Pitt in Fight Club.   

“Don’t weigh yourself daily” is advice from skinny diet journalists who have always been skinny independent of diet and exercise and thus to them a daily weight fluctuation is a purely mental exercise, and since their weight is and always has been homeostatic, long averages is a better measure than daily fluctuations.

for heavy people trying to lose weight or maintain lost weight, research has shown that the daily accountability of weighing oneself is crucial to positive outcomes. Taking away the accountability, merely gives the genetic victims (whose weight has never been homeostatic) too much room. Weighing yourself once a week, if you are non homeostatic is like telling an smoker they only have to give up cigarettes one day a week and it is the same as quitting.

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2 hours ago, Scott_N said:

My understanding is that range is likely sufficient for a non-athlete in maintenance mode (basically the old 'half your body weight in grams of protein'). 

If you are trying to build or maintain a strong physique I'd look at the 0.8-1.3 range. I don't think that is a controversial statement. In my own experience, I note a significant, positive difference in my performance when I'm at the higher end of that but I wouldn't dispute there's a case of diminishing returns. But some return is still OK even if it's diminished... Saying that, going way beyond the upper range probably serves no purpose unless you are on gear. 

That’s exactly what the protein sellers want you to think. But you are just spilling the excess in your urine or breaking the excess protein down to glycerol molecules that can be stored in adipocytes as triglycerides.

but if you’re experiencing a strong placebo effect as described, probably fine to lean into it.

Edited by lokisnow

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