Mapping ASOIF characters by D&D alignment

[Lady Barbrey]

On 10/15/2018 at 3:36 PM, Nevets said:

Ned and Brienne are Lawful Good; Jon is more Neutral Good (breaks too many rules)

Tyrion is Lawful Neutral trending toward Neutral Good; Bronn is Neutral; and Varys is too much of a mystery to even judge.

Gregor and Ramsay are definitely Chaotic Evil; Joffrrey is closer to Neutral Evil.

Others:

Arya - Chaotic Good sliding toward chaotic neutral.

Sansa - Lawful Good

Tywin - Lawful Evil

Stannis - Lawful Neutral

Cersei - Neutral Evil

Daenerys - Chaotic Good (I think)

Sandor - Chaotic Neutral (beginning)/ Chaotic Good (now)

Theon and Jaime - no idea whatsoever

Yours come closest to my own opinion.   Jaime, more than any character other than Brienne and maybe Ned, was closest to Lawful Good when he was a boy.  He slid into Neutral Evil, and is now crawling closer to Chaotic Good.

Theon was a creep and would have got creepier if he hadn't met obstacles like his dad and then Ramsay.  I'd say closest to Neutral Evil and now pushing Neutral Good but He's been so traumatized It's hard to say.

[Aegon VII]

On 10/18/2018 at 6:07 AM, dmfn said:

Your list of chaotic good made me laugh. I agree with Dany. 

Jaime in GoT was closer to chaotic evil. He's heading to lawful neutral. 

Tyrion's neutral. 

Bloodraven could be anything, but his spymaster status, murder, and rumored magic use point more towards evil. 

I'd say someone like Catelyn falls into the chaotic good category. 

Hodor is perfect for neutral. 

I think jaimes arc is one from chaotic neutral to good and he’s at the start of being good right now. Eg Treatment of Brienne, not attacking river run due to oath.

 

tyrion is pretty good. Goes out of his way to give bran the horse schematics, works with Jaime to save Tasha, treatment of penny, love of Jaime Marcella and tommen.

 

i see br as going to the wall and beyond on purpose to fight the others. I think everything he’s done, including killing Damon, was for the greater good.

 

catyelyn!! No way she’s good. Look at her treatment of Jon. She’s neutral. 

 

Hodor is Hodor 

[Curled Finger]

On 10/18/2018 at 4:44 AM, Eddard Waters said:

Considering what happened to Tysha and Tywin's moronic invasion of the Riverlands, I think it's fair that he can also be considered Chaotic Evil

I don't really understand the Dungeons & Dragons designations, but I have a general feel for them.   A year or so back I happened upon an essay by an author who claimed to know GRRM and his wife well enough to tell the tale of great distraction during which GRRM was said to have spent more time playing RPG than writing.   I get this, because, well Zelda is the closest I can come, but I'm sure it's the same principle--a game taking over your life.   My attempts have been more geared toward identifying the characters such as Rogues, Hunters, knights, sorcerers ad nauseum.   However, I think it is all relevant to ASOIAF.   I consider Tywin to be a ruler -- an A class ruler-- for the time.   Harsh, stern, confident, merciless.    It's not hard to see where he may have been the best ruler Westeros has ever seen.    It is his human nature that is so confounding, jerk that he was.   I don't get chaos with Tywin at all.   He seemed to have met chaos with supreme if hard LAW.  I suppose evil is interpretive, but I would be interested in understanding how Tywin rates Chaotic Evil?   

[Eddard Waters]

52 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I don't really understand the Dungeons & Dragons designations, but I have a general feel for them.   A year or so back I happened upon an essay by an author who claimed to know GRRM and his wife well enough to tell the tale of great distraction during which GRRM was said to have spent more time playing RPG than writing.   I get this, because, well Zelda is the closest I can come, but I'm sure it's the same principle--a game taking over your life.   My attempts have been more geared toward identifying the characters such as Rogues, Hunters, knights, sorcerers ad nauseum.   However, I think it is all relevant to ASOIAF.   I consider Tywin to be a ruler -- an A class ruler-- for the time.   Harsh, stern, confident, merciless.    It's not hard to see where he may have been the best ruler Westeros has ever seen.    It is his human nature that is so confounding, jerk that he was.   I don't get chaos with Tywin at all.   He seemed to have met chaos with supreme if hard LAW.  I suppose evil is interpretive, but I would be interested in understanding how Tywin rates Chaotic Evil?   

What happened to Tysha was pointless not lawful, there was no point to it but to rubb it in that no one would love Tyrion. Any rational person would have told Tyrion that Tysha is a mistress, not a wife, and left it at that. 

There is a difference from being cruel and being lawful. 

 

Tywin Lannister is a petty, cruel and arrogant man that sowed the seeds of his own downfall

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, Eddard Waters said:

What happened to Tysha was pointless not lawful, there was no point to it but to rubb it in that no one would love Tyrion. Any rational person would have told Tyrion that Tysha is a mistress, not a wife, and left it at that. 

There is a difference from being cruel and being lawful. 

 

Tywin Lannister is a petty, cruel and arrogant man that sowed the seeds of his own downfall

I get the morality or lack thereof.  I thought the Tysha horror was explained very well from Tywin's point of view as given from Tyrion.   Of course we would never make a choice like this.   It fits Tywin's character perfectly.   He is cruel, but that is how he maintains law and order, for the most part at any rate.   Is ruthlessness and cruelty a crucial factor in ruling in this world?   

When Tyrion gets his turn at bat as acting Hand or shortly thereafter he has the opportunity to exhibit his own propensity for cruelty in killing Simon (I think that was his name)--the singer who hoped to be part of Joffrey's wedding reception entertainment.   Jon Snow beheads Janos Slynt for insubordination.   Arya is a vigilante.   Though I like these characters (and understand their motives for their acts) far more than Tywin, murder is still murder.   I don't know that Tysha died and I'm not in any way defending the acts against her.  Where there is life there is hope, which is the difference I see in these comparisons.    

Perhaps I simply don't understand the definition of chaotic evil.   

[dmfn]

8 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

I think jaimes arc is one from chaotic neutral to good and he’s at the start of being good right now. Eg Treatment of Brienne, not attacking river run due to oath.

 

tyrion is pretty good. Goes out of his way to give bran the horse schematics, works with Jaime to save Tasha, treatment of penny, love of Jaime Marcella and tommen.

 

i see br as going to the wall and beyond on purpose to fight the others. I think everything he’s done, including killing Damon, was for the greater good.

 

catyelyn!! No way she’s good. Look at her treatment of Jon. She’s neutral. 

 

Hodor is Hodor 

Pushing a kid out of a window for inadvertently witnessing you fuck your sister is not neutral. Jaime! 

Tyrion is a "good guy" but his conduct and behavior are very gray. Helping Bran, good. Threatening to kill Tommen if his whore is hurt, not so good. 

Bloodraven

9 hours ago, Aegon VII said:

 

- murder, conspiracy, manipulating people and events, even for the greater good, cannot be considered good. Some might ask if the ends justify the means. Neutral at best. Jojen might say evil. 

Catelyn not loving and embracing the bastard child of her husband, whose presence she tolerated daily in front of all the people who were supposed to respect her doesn't drop her down so low. She said some nasty things when she thought Bran would die. Some bad things. Don't get me wrong, I think she might be one of the worst characters in the story, a major catalyst for the War. But I don't think there's any malicious intent there. Just a dumbass. 

 

[Aegon VII]

2 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Pushing a kid out of a window for inadvertently witnessing you fuck your sister is not neutral. Jaime! 

I mean, when it’s that child or your own.. it is kinda neutral. 

2 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Tyrion is a "good guy" but his conduct and behavior are very gray. Helping Bran, good. Threatening to kill Tommen if his whore is hurt, not so good. 

He’s protecting the weak in your example, at his own expense. 

2 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Bloodraven

- murder, conspiracy, manipulating people and events, even for the greater good, cannot be considered good. Some might ask if the ends justify the means. Neutral at best. Jojen might say evil. 

I think the ends justifying the means speaks more to the chaotic spectrum. If he’s doing something for the greater good it does support him being good

2 minutes ago, dmfn said:

Catelyn not loving and embracing the bastard child of her husband, whose presence she tolerated daily in front of all the people who were supposed to respect her doesn't drop her down so low. She said some nasty things when she thought Bran would die. Some bad things. Don't get me wrong, I think she might be one of the worst characters in the story, a major catalyst for the War. But I don't think there's any malicious intent there. Just a dumbass. 

 

Yup! A neutral dumbass lol 

[dmfn]

1 minute ago, Aegon VII said:

I mean, when it’s that child or your own.. it is kinda neutral. 

He’s protecting the weak in your example, at his own expense. 

I think the ends justifying the means speaks more to the chaotic spectrum. If he’s doing something for the greater good it does support him being good

Yup! A neutral dumbass lol 

 

4 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I get the morality or lack thereof.  I thought the Tysha horror was explained very well from Tywin's point of view as given from Tyrion.   Of course we would never make a choice like this.   It fits Tywin's character perfectly.   He is cruel, but that is how he maintains law and order, for the most part at any rate.   Is ruthlessness and cruelty a crucial factor in ruling in this world?   

When Tyrion gets his turn at bat as acting Hand or shortly thereafter he has the opportunity to exhibit his own propensity for cruelty in killing Simon (I think that was his name)--the singer who hoped to be part of Joffrey's wedding reception entertainment.   Jon Snow beheads Janos Slynt for insubordination.   Arya is a vigilante.   Though I like these characters (and understand their motives for their acts) far more than Tywin, murder is still murder.   I don't know that Tysha died and I'm not in any way defending the acts against her.  Where there is life there is hope, which is the difference I see in these comparisons.    

Perhaps I simply don't understand the definition of chaotic evil.   

You seem to be getting it just fine. 

Catelyn had to have known taking Tyrion would have severe consequences. Tywin wiped two houses off the map for taking his cousins, and owing money.

Tysha Tysha Tysha! I hope everyone who defines a person by one action in their life could handle being judged by the same criteria. 

Is war good? No. Is rape good? No. Doesn't Tywin maintain law and order otherwise? 

[Platypus Rex]

Lawful Good:  Ned, Davos

Neutral Good:  Sansa, Jon, Brienne

Chaotic Good:   Septon Meribald, Ser Pounce

Lawful Neutral:  Stannis, Catelyn

Neutral:  Arianne, Bran, Dany, Asha, King Robert

Chaotic Neutral:  Rickon, Arya, Sandor, Theon

Lawful Evil:  Tywin, Doran

Neutral Evil:  Tyrion, Roose, Gregor, Cersei, Littlefinger, Jaime, Varys, Stoneheart

Chaotic Evil:  Bronn, Ramsay, Darkstar, Melisandre, Euron,  

Law versus Chaos is somewhat meaningless to me, so please don't ask me to defend my choices too much.  Between Good and Evil, I have used "neutral" as a convenient catch-all for anyone whose arc is in flux, and the end of whose story is unknown, not including Jaime, who is just evil, sorry.