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SansaJonRule

How was the NK planning to get south of the wall before he got Viseryion?

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The NK and his army were heading toward Eastwatch by the Sea before the excursion north to capture a wight resulting in Dany flying in to rescue them. How was he planning to get them south of the wall? I thought that Osha went around the wall, so I figured that was the NK's plan before he killed Viseryion, but the wiki says she went over the wall.

So without a dragon to destroy the wall, how do y'all think he was planning on getting past it?

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Wouldn't it have been possible for them to bring winter with them and freeze the sea near Eastwatch, and then walk around the wall? 

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1 hour ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Wouldn't it have been possible for them to bring winter with them and freeze the sea near Eastwatch, and then walk around the wall? 

Then why didn't he freeze the water in that little lake and kill Strike Force Snow!?

Unless he was waiting for a dragon, because he needed it to pass the Wall. In which case Tyrion will be to blame if humanity dies off. 

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6 minutes ago, darmody said:

Then why didn't he freeze the water in that little lake and kill Strike Force Snow!?

Unless he was waiting for a dragon, because he needed it to pass the Wall. In which case Tyrion will be to blame if humanity dies off. 

Like you said, I think he knew the dragons were coming and that's why he didn't just freeze the lake and finish them off.  But  I think he could have frozen it, if he wanted to.  And I'm assuming the broken enchantments because of Bran's being marked and passing through the wall would also effect the water. (I haven't read the books..is the water protected as well?  I would think it would have to be..) 

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35 minutes ago, Red Dragon10 said:

 (I haven't read the books..is the water protected as well?  I would think it would have to be..) 

It's always been my assumption that it isn't.. but they can't swim so the theorys  untested

 

.but if they can't swim who hooked the dragon to chains? 

 

They can still board ships though.... If they think to. 

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1 hour ago, longest night said:

This is what happens when plot devices like the Horn of Winter are removed.

They don't know for sure the Horn will bring down the wall though, but I think it would have been a good element of the story to keep.

Freezing the water and walking on it seems the most likely, but the in the wiki it says it's never been clear whether the cold comes with the WWs, or whether they come with the cold.

I don't think the magic could extend into the water. The CotF's magic only worked where there were weirwood trees.

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13 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

They don't know for sure the Horn will bring down the wall though, but I think it would have been a good element of the story to keep.

Freezing the water and walking on it seems the most likely, but the in the wiki it says it's never been clear whether the cold comes with the WWs, or whether they come with the cold.

I don't think the magic could extend into the water. The CotF's magic only worked where there were weirwood trees.

Melissandre certainly thinks it will, which is why she burned what she thought was the Horn of Winter. It's Chekhov's horn at this point. If they had kept the horn plot, that would really have been a reason to go beyond the wall, to retrieve it before the Night King could get to it. Only, surprise, the horn takes control of a dragon and then that brings down the Wall.

The long night itself has records as far as Asshai.

Edited by longest night

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1 minute ago, longest night said:

There aren't weirwood trees in Asshai.

And the CotF didn't bring on the Long Night.

I get where you are going with this though, and that is the magic that exists in Westeros is the same magic that exists everywhere else in the world (unless there are multiple magic systems and that would be poor world building). But the CotF couldn't affect anything with that magic, or perhaps couldn't access that magic where there weren't weirwood trees.

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1 minute ago, SansaJonRule said:

And the CotF didn't bring on the Long Night.

I get where you are going with this though, and that is the magic that exists in Westeros is the same magic that exists everywhere else in the world (unless there are multiple magic systems and that would be poor world building). But the CotF couldn't affect anything with that magic, or perhaps couldn't access that magic where there weren't weirwood trees.

From everything we know, they did bring on the Long Night through the creation of the white walkers.

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It's never been clear whether the WW brought the Long Night, or if they just came with the Long Night. I can't remember if that is said in the show, but it's said in the books somewhere, maybe in one of Old Lan's stories.

In a land where it's normal for one season to last years, it's not so hard to believe that every so often there would be a really long winter. Our earth goes through that too, with cycles like El Nino and El Nina, only our is only measured in months. The Long Night was what, 8000 years ago? If there was a Long Night prior to that, say several thousand years earlier, it was before recorded history so we woudn't know about it.

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6 hours ago, Red Dragon10 said:

Like you said, I think he knew the dragons were coming and that's why he didn't just freeze the lake and finish them off.  But  I think he could have frozen it, if he wanted to.

The lake did freeze. 

The Wall was virtually undefended. If he brings enough cold he could have simply stood his ground near the wall till the ocean near Eastwatch froze. Nothing to have stopped him. 

We also know from Jafer Flowers that the White Walkers can animate wights inside the castles of the Nights Watch. So any unburnt recently dead on the other side of the Wall could be used to clear out the tiny remnant of the Watch. The White Walkers may have also been able to scale the Wall like wildling raiders as it was mostly undefended and they could have attacked the Wall from the rear where its spells would not work. Its also plausable that burning the weirwood tree in the Nights Fort's Black Gate may have broken the spells protecting it there. 

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We have to assume that there was always a way for him to get past the Wall, that the spells in the Wall were never enough to hold him back on their own. Otherwise what's the point of having a Nights Watch? You could just leave the Wall completely undefended and it would have done it's job just as well. You'd probably still want a token force there, just for observation, but a token force would have been sufficient. 

So the fact that the Nights Watch existed is evidence that the Wall on it's own is not enough. That the Wall also needs to be actively defended, that if it's not actively defended there is a danger of the NK/WW getting by it, so that there must have always been a way for them to get by it. 

What that way was, don't know. Outside of the NK/WW, probably nobody knows, unless it's buried in some book in the Citadel. But it must have been there. 

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12 hours ago, ferrelhadley said:

they could have attacked the Wall from the rear where its spells would not work

why wouldn't the spells work there? It's still part of the wall.

12 hours ago, ferrelhadley said:

Its also plausable that burning the weirwood tree in the Nights Fort's Black Gate may have broken the spells protecting it there. 

That is a very interesting concept, although it seems they would have already done so if that was the case. Of course, it all comes down to D&D's writing - that's how they want something to be so it is. That's why I really hope Martin finishes the blasted series so we can hopefully have these kinds of questions answered.

11 hours ago, 21st Century Moose said:

We have to assume that there was always a way for him to get past the Wall, that the spells in the Wall were never enough to hold him back on their own.

If  that was the case, Benjen could have gone into Castle Black. He was only "half dead". I believe their plan was always to go around.

11 hours ago, 21st Century Moose said:

Otherwise what's the point of having a Nights Watch?

They watched for Wildlings also. And sent rangers north to look for signs of danger.

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