Sansa stark have no reasons to like Dany

[Ser Loras The Gay]

I wanted to make the title really inflamatory so I can lay down what I think the relationship bewteen Sansa and Dany should be on the show. So let's begin

Dany came to the north saying she was the rightful queen of westeros and wanted power to herself, made Jon bent his knee in exchange of help against the others. Sansa didn't like Jon's action because in her mind the North can defend itself against both Cersei and the Others and at first glance no one should really trust people with face value, so that's fine. Things change as Dany shows her good will with the north, by sending not just the obsidian they need but after sending help in both her army and her dragons. At this point even if Sansa doesn't personally likes Dany she should be thankful to her for sending help, but the show makes Sansa not only not trust her after the help she sends but insists on her being untrustworthy which is wrong, she's showing goodwill. Things change again when Dany comes with her full power to defend the north against the Others and the two had a little time to discuss the north future when Dany becomes queen, Sansa states quite explicitly that she wanted a free north with Jon as king. Dany of course refuses the idea saying that are "Seven kingdoms" at this point I have to restate Sansa PERSONALLY could not like Dany, but, after all the things Dany did trying to show goodwill Sansa should at least not only trust her at this point but understand that Dany sacrificed too much to not get the seven kingdoms she wanted. Sansa should understand that they only have different interests but in the end both of them want to end all wars. 

 

After the Great war, when Dany becomes weak (her army half dead, lol I still can buy the "half" talk), should be the moment when Sansa comes along showing some goodwill tranquilizing Dany that she'd help her win the war against Cersei and put Dany in the throne, that way, she'd be closer to what she wants, north independency or at least being warden of the North as Lady Stark of Winterfell. She could not only do that but marry Jon with Dany, she know her brother is in love with her and that would put a North loyalist besides the new queen. So all in all even if Sansa doesn't like Dany as a person she should be more friendly towards her to get what she wants, power to the northmen and her controlling it. Being a nasty bitch isn't going to help and plotting against Dany either. Dany didn't do anything BUT show goodwill towards the north, even when she didn't need to. Sansa can be smarter than this. Putting his brother at the throne is not a good idea, Dany is stronger (have a bigger army) than Jon's right now. It makes no sense.

 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

Sansa is making a very poor showing here, IMO. She has no claim to Winterfell whatsoever. Jon was KitN, abdicated and is now (presumably) legitimized and warden of the north  

I don’t blame her for being irritated with her brother’s new girlfriend, but really all Jon needs to do is tell her to shut her trap. 

But he won’t, and Sansa knows he won’t. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

15 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

But he won’t, and Sansa knows he won’t.

It's not only that. If the show made her say something like "jon wake the fuck up we declared you KitN for a reason, we want the north free from the schemes from the south, house bolton is dead and WE killed them and I saved your fucking ass. Stop being a ass hole and ask your girlfriend a independent north or marry the bitch, but don't come here all honourable bending the knee to a totally stranger and expect all of us to accept it" then we had real drama, and we'd see how Jon is not taking into account what the northmen want after all the battles they fought.

[Raksha 2014]

14 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Sansa is making a very poor showing here, IMO. She has no claim to Winterfell whatsoever. Jon was KitN, abdicated and is now (presumably) legitimized and warden of the north  

I don’t blame her for being irritated with her brother’s new girlfriend, but really all Jon needs to do is tell her to shut her trap. 

But he won’t, and Sansa knows he won’t. 

 

Sansa definitely has a claim to Winterfell; she is Ned Stark's daughter.  Jon abdicated the kingship; was appointed the warden of the North by Daenerys; and that office will last as long as Daenerys does and then will be up for grabs.  No one is calling Jon the Lord of Winterfell; Sansa is acting, and I think has been accepted as, the Lady of Winterfell.  Now it turns out that Jon is not the son of Ned Stark after all; has abandoned his wolf to go down south; I'm not sure that he's ever going to rule the North from Winterfell or anywhere.  It can be said that Jon and Sansa have very close claims, in terms of inheritance, to be the ruler of the North as warden or king/queen.  Will Jon be needed or wanted after (presumably) there are no more wights and walkers to fight?  Will Sansa be preferred; since she can provide grandchildren of Ned Stark as well as her own skills?  (and might pick a surviving Stark bannerman to marry)?  I'm not sure.  We'll see who's still standing after the finale, and where.

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

5 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

It's not only that. If the show made her say something like "jon wake the fuck up we declared you KitN for a reason, we want the north free from the schemes from the south, house bolton is dead and WE killed them and I saved your fucking ass. Stop being a ass hole and ask your girlfriend a independent north or marry the bitch, but don't come here all honourable bending the knee to a totally stranger and expect all of us to accept it" then we had real drama, and we'd see how Jon is not taking into account what the northmen want after all the battles they fought.

Well, she could say that all she wants and he could tell her to shut her hole if he wanted. She’s just banking that he won’t. 

We haven’t seen anyone in show argue against Jon’s decision to abdicate, other than Sansa and Lyanna Mormont, who is now gone. 

Dont get me wrong, I think Sansa is right to do what she’s doing, but her approach is not the beat and could potentially prove dangerous for her, if dany rules and Jon dies.  

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

5 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

 

Sansa definitely has a claim to Winterfell; she is Ned Stark's daughter.  Jon abdicated the kingship; was appointed the warden of the North by Daenerys; and that office will last as long as Daenerys does and then will be up for grabs.  No one is calling Jon the Lord of Winterfell; Sansa is acting, and I think has been accepted as, the Lady of Winterfell.  Now it turns out that Jon is not the son of Ned Stark after all; has abandoned his wolf to go down south; I'm not sure that he's ever going to rule the North from Winterfell or anywhere.  It can be said that Jon and Sansa have very close claims, in terms of inheritance, to be the ruler of the North as warden or king/queen.  Will Jon be needed or wanted after (presumably) there are no more wights and walkers to fight?  Will Sansa be preferred; since she can provide grandchildren of Ned Stark as well as her own skills?  (and might pick a surviving Stark bannerman to marry)?  I'm not sure.  We'll see who's still standing after the finale, and where.

I’m making the assumption dany has or will legitimize him as a Stark. That puts him in front of Sansa for succession. 

If she doesn’t, then yes, Sansa precedes him. It’s still a dangerous game for her to play, though.  

Edited to add that actually Bran has a better claim than Sansa, I think 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

4 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

Will Sansa be preferred; since she can provide grandchildren of Ned Stark as well as her own skills? (and might pick a surviving Stark bannerman to marry)?  I'm not sure.  We'll see who's still standing after the finale, and where.

Not only that, she wants a independent north like northmen do, Jon said he doesn't care about it and bent the knee to Dany. We all saw how people reacted, everyone hated it. And even after the battle Jon and Arya got all the attention not Dany.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

We haven’t seen anyone in show argue against Jon’s decision to abdicate, other than Sansa and Lyanna Mormont, who is now gone. 

This is the showrunners fault because they just put the big players to speak for all the other smaller players and never touch the subject anymore. But they can't be the only two to think it was a rushed idea, you don't call your lord king if you don't want your kingdom to be independent.

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

Just now, Ser Loras The Gay said:

This is the showrunners fault because they just put the big players to speak for all the other smaller players and never touch the subject anymore. But they can't be the only two to think it was a rushed idea, you don't call your lord king if you don't want your kingdom to be independent.

Yep, agree the support for an independent north is probably there and just poorly conveyed in the show. 

Regardless, it’s still not smart for Sansa to be openly defying dany the way she is.

[Nightwish]

Sansa clearly doesn’t appreciate anything. I think the scene in the crypts it’s just shocking and so indicative of the person she has become. 

Dany is above saving her brother and Sansa tries to manipulate Tyrion and convince him that Mother of the dragons is the problem. 

She really has a problem with her life hasn’t she? 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

4 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Sansa clearly doesn’t appreciate anything. I think the scene in the crypts it’s just shocking and so indicative of the person she has become. 

Dany is above saving her brother and Sansa tries to manipulate Tyrion and convince him that Mother of the dragons is the problem. 

She really has a problem with her life hasn’t she? 

I actually liked her dialogue in the crypts, because I felt like it was more about her testing and probing Tyrion himself than about dany, specifically. She wanted to know where he stood, and why.

It was because he didn’t say anything then to defend Dany that Sansa knew she had an opening when she mentioned Jon as a potential replacement for Dany’s rule.

Still, why she’s doing this is beyond me. If it’s because she’s recently become a fervent supporter of an independent north, they did a terrible job of growing that angle.   

[Hodor's Dragon]

35 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

It's not only that. If the show made her say something like "jon wake the fuck up we declared you KitN for a reason, we want the north free from the schemes from the south, house bolton is dead and WE killed them and I saved your fucking ass. Stop being a ass hole and ask your girlfriend a independent north or marry the bitch, but don't come here all honourable bending the knee to a totally stranger and expect all of us to accept it" then we had real drama, and we'd see how Jon is not taking into account what the northmen want after all the battles they fought.

Except nobody said all that. They made him King of the North and put all the powers of kingship--which, in Westeros, is pretty much unlimited power--in his hands. NO STRINGS ATTACHED. 

They have zero legal claim to require him to do something else, no legal recourse if he does something else, and if they have any kind of moral claim or recourse I have no idea where it comes from or why. They made their own bed and won't sleep in it. If they don't believe in Jon Snow as king then they need to frickin' take it away from him by conquest.

[Nightwish]

12 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

I actually liked her dialogue in the crypts, because I felt like it was more about her testing and probing Tyrion himself than about dany, specifically. She wanted to know where he stood, and why.

It was because he didn’t say anything then to defend Dany that Sansa knew she had an opening when she mentioned Jon as a potential replacement for Dany’s rule.

Still, why she’s doing this is beyond me. If it’s because she’s recently become a fervent supporter of an independent north, they did a terrible job of growing that angle.   

I was shocked. I was like “hey you don’t know if you are going to live the following second and you are blaming the one trying to save your pathetic life?” 

Yes she was clearly testing Tyrion there but again. If Dany had climbed down from her Dragon to tell John “Sansa is the problem in our relationship ” all the fan base would have called her paranoid with a brain tumor. 

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

59 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

Sansa is making a very poor showing here, IMO. She has no claim to Winterfell whatsoever. Jon was KitN, abdicated and is now (presumably) legitimized and warden of the north  

I don’t blame her for being irritated with her brother’s new girlfriend, but really all Jon needs to do is tell her to shut her trap. 

But he won’t, and Sansa knows he won’t. 

Jon has told Sansa to basically shut her trap before. Back in season 7 when Sansa was going on about taking the castles away from the Umbers and Karstarks. Why he doesn't do it again or actually try to have a conversation with Sansa about Dany, is a D&D problem. Really Sansa wants power and she sees Dany as someone who wants to take it away from her imo.

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Really Sansa wants power and she sees Dany as someone who wants to take it away from her imo.

I think power has a important role but I think it's a mix between wanting power and preserve the North for northmen. Jon lost his capacity to have a conversation. He can only say "yes, no, I can't lie I am honorable".

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

4 minutes ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

Jon has told Sansa to basically shut her trap before. Back in season 7 when Sansa was going on about taking the castles away from the Umbers and Karstarks. Why he doesn't do it again or actually try to have a conversation with Sansa about Dany, is a D&D problem. Really Sansa wants power and she sees Dany as someone who wants to take it away from her imo.

I agree. For all we’re told that Sansa has learned subterfuge and how to play the game from Littlefinger, she’s done an awful job of displaying it here. 

[The_Spanish_Inquisition]

2 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I think power has a important role but I think it's a mix between wanting power and preserve the North for northmen. Jon lost his capacity to have a conversation. He can only say "yes, no, I can't lie I am honorable".

The show has done nothing whatsoever to explain why Sansa suddenly feels so strongly about northern independence, which is why this is all so damned confusing. 

[Ser Loras The Gay]

2 minutes ago, The_Spanish_Inquisition said:

The show has done nothing whatsoever to explain why Sansa suddenly feels so strongly about northern independence, which is why this is all so damned confusing. 

Because GRRM said "Sansa after all the suffering she had just want to be left in peace in her home. And she'll do everything in her power to achieve that, but she has a lot of fighting to do. She'll have to deal with the boltons holding the north, the others that are trying to destroy her home and Daenerys who want to call Sansa's home hers". But the producers and screenwriters couldn't put that in meaningful scenes and good dialogue. But, they decided to use GRRM's annotations anyway and became this mess.

[Nightwish]

1 minute ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I think power has a important role but I think it's a mix between wanting power and preserve the North for northmen. Jon lost his capacity to have a conversation. He can only say "yes, no, I can't lie I am honorable".

I think her problem starts ever since the Northmen made John king of the North, she was expecting herself to be in leadership after bringing them the Vale but the northmen choose John. 

It didn’t sit well with her but anyway she could chew it because John is John and she could talk and control him. But after he bended the knee to Dany, she feels she is losing that power. 

She never truly recognized or respected John as a ruler but went along, but when he brought Dany she is over the top but far too weak to do anything. 

So she turns to the game that she knows best from Littlefinger. Plotting, scheming and manipulating. She wants Dany out of the game so she can rule in peace. And her ambitions are now expanding to the IT. 

If she cared for anyone and especially John she would respect that he doesn’t wish the crown and he is in love with that woman. But I don’t think she cares. 

 

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

4 minutes ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

I think power has a important role but I think it's a mix between wanting power and preserve the North for northmen. Jon lost his capacity to have a conversation. He can only say "yes, no, I can't lie I am honorable".

I think uses the independent North talk as a means to getting power. The North was independent when Jon went South to meet Dany. That didn't stop her from plotting against Jon with LF. Sansa can say shes for family and a independent North but her actions show otherwise, she wants power.  You forgot Jon's other only saying, " you don't know her" .