Multaniette Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 If Luthien can be counted as an elf, she is the greatest. Feanor, Finrod, Fingon, Maedhros, Finwe, Thingol, Turgon, Galadriel all come later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tears of Lys Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Well most Mair do that. The thing is the Balrogs I think fall in the same category as Morgoth and Sauron. They when they die go into the void. No halls and cushy afterlife for them. Thanks. I had forgotten about that pesky "into the void" bit. Re: Luthien, et al., who's the greatest Elf, seems to me there were different kinds of greatness. Luthien certainly showed great bravery and daring in facing down Morgoth in Thangorodrim (sp?) where more than her life was at risk. It takes one kind of courage to risk languishing in a cell in Morgoth's lair (or pinned to a mountain) and another to risk becoming the Dark One's plaything. Whether you're battling Balrogs, or darting around Morgoth's heels fighting him one-on-one, or using your wits to snatch a Silmaril from under Morgoth's nose, I think they all qualify as "great." "Greatest" is just a matter of taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niamh Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 If Luthien can be counted as an elf, she is the greatest. Feanor, Finrod, Fingon, Maedhros, Finwe, Thingol, Turgon, Galadriel all come later. She's half maia you big cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multaniette Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 hey the glass is not half empty but half full! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merentha Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 hey the glass is not half empty but half full! So she's...Maia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multaniette Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 nah, she loveth elves more than maia. I bet she seduced Beren because she didn't want her mommy to tie her up in an arranged marriage with a grumpy fire maia like olorin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 If Luthien can be counted as an elf, she is the greatest. Feanor, Finrod, Fingon, Maedhros, Finwe, Thingol, Turgon, Galadriel all come later. Back in the olden days of Rolemaster/MERp, I think Ingwe and Luthien were both level 150, the highest of any of the Eldar. Aratan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Yeah they were. Still Ingwe has been the high king for the Elves since well basically the start of the elves. He's also been at Manwe's side for nearly all that time. That has to account for something in the world of Middle Earth, where races get weaker as each generation passes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurktan Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Gothmog was the lord of the Balrogs and had two high kings to his credit in killing. Only one, Feänor wasn't High King But then again I've never been impressed by Gothmog, I tend to assume he generally stayed away from Húrin in Unnumbered Tears for fear of getting his ass kicked and so sent the bodyguard in. Note when he kills Fingon too, he doesn't show up until Húrin has been driven away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Wasn't Feanor basically High King of the elves in Bereliand? Technically neither Fingon or Feanor was high king if you consider that Finarfin likely has the title as the guy who remained leading the Noldor in Valinor. I know Fingolfin deferred to his brother and the whole thing after with Fingon and Maedhros is to make Fingolfin the successor to Feanor. I agree that Hurin was a badass, even more so than his son. But I don't think Gothmog was afraid of Hurin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arataniello Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Wasn't Feanor basically High King of the elves in Bereliand? Technically neither Fingon or Feanor was high king if you consider that Finarfin likely has the title as the guy who remained leading the Noldor in Valinor. I know Fingolfin deferred to his brother and the whole thing after with Fingon and Maedhros is to make Fingolfin the successor to Feanor. I agree that Hurin was a badass, even more so than his son. But I don't think Gothmog was afraid of Hurin. Feanor _claimed_ the High Kingship in Tirion before the Noldor revolted, but was not universally recognised as such. So you could say that the Noldor were suffering the First Age equivalent of hanging chads throughout the Flight of the Noldor. After the death of Feanor, Maedhros waived his rights to the HKship, and Fingolfin was universally acknowledged as the High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth. Aratan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyP Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 If Luthien can be counted as an elf, she is the greatest. Feanor, Finrod, Fingon, Maedhros, Finwe, Thingol, Turgon, Galadriel all come later. IIRC it is even more complicated than that because she died and left the world her fate is to be judged as one with mankind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestit Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 And do not forget Earendil the Mariner, who was practically more revered by the Dunedain than the elves. While Earendil never did any of the great feats of heroism that characterized the elves of the heroic age, he was the one who got the great idea of "Hey, why don't we apologize to the Valar and get their help?" He was also the second human (yes, I know he became an 'elf' but his spirit and heart were very human) to live in the Undying Lands; the first was his father Tuor, who apparently got a free immortality swap with Luthien's mortality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainFireBob Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Earendil slew Ancalagon the Black in personal combat, the first and greatest of the winged dragons. Think Glaurung, with wings. His hand also sent Curufin and Caranthir to their fate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falagar Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Well no the situation wasn't comparable. Remember when Fingolfin decided to mount his charge, it was because of despair on learning of how horrible the battle was going. Morgoth's forces at the 4th battle were far bigger than they were at the one Feanor was involved in. They were launching attacks on every front and had already killed Angrod and Aegnor. So while Feanor did chase a broken enemy host and got trapped by Gothmog, Fingolfin charged through an unbroken army of Morgoth straight to the gates. Which is why I think Fingolfin's feats are greater, even before getting into the epid battle against Morgoth. Can't see where it says he actually charged through anything. Morgoth's armies had overrun most of the sons of Fëanor, and the sons of Finarfin in Dorthonion, but while he might have been cut off from his kinsmen it doesn't seem like any enemies were covering the plain of Anfauglith. Hithlum remained unconquered, a threat upon the flank of Morgoth's attack; but Fingolfin was sundered from his kinsmen by a sea of foes. [...] Now news came to Hithlum that Dorthonion was lost and the sons of Finarfin overthrown, and that the sons of Fëanor were driven from their lands. Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. No mention of any encounter with the host of Morgoth, nor of having to fight his way through anyone. ETA flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Earendil didn't slay Curufin and Caranthir. (well at least in the main version of the tale. An alternate version (probably some other notes which Tolkien wrote had been considering having the two survive Doriath)) But officially all three were killed by Dior. Regardless of Curufin and Caranthir's fate, Earendil couldn't have killed him anyways. In the kinslaying at Doriath Earendil wasn't old enough and in the one at Sirion where Amrod and Amras died, Elwing jumped into the water and met him at sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Can't see where it says he actually charged through anything. Morgoth's armies had overrun most of the sons of Fëanor, and the sons of Finarfin in Dorthonion, but while he might have been cut off from his kinsmen it doesn't seem like any enemies were covering the plain of Anfauglith. No mention of any encounter with the host of Morgoth, nor of having to fight his way through anyone. ETA flow. Umm Ered Withrin is a north-south mountain range (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a6/Beleriand.jpg) facing eastwards towards the other elven lands, and slightly northward towards Angband. So yeah he is stuck on Hithlum (which was also under attack, just that himself and Fingon and their human allies repelled the assault with great loss. Hurin's grandfather among others were killed). There is like Tolkien said a sea of foes between Fingolfin's forces and his allies. And of course there is a huge amount of foes attacking Hithlum itself, as shown by Tolkien in the preceeding couple paragraphs to your quotes where they talk about the assault on Hithrim. Do you think the forces assaulting Hithrim just dissapeared? Hell no, they're still there and Fingolfin went berserk and charged through them. Of course it's true he didn't fight them, but that's because they ran in fear from him. So unless you want to argue that Hithlum wasn't under attack by Morgoth's armies then yes Fingolfin clearly charged through forces. Of course Morgoth had forces on Anfauglith. They were assaulting Hithlum, and Tolkien makes note of both Orcs and Balrogs as part of the forces attacking there, saying neither could overcome the defensive position of the mountains combined with the great valor of the elves and humans there. Morgoth sent many armies out through the Anfauglith. There were the forces assaulting Hithlum. Other forces attacked and overcame Angrod and Aegnor in Dorthanion. As well forces attacked Tol Sirion, which Orodreth held. Also add in the forces sent further east which overrun much of the sons of Feanor's land but couldn't overcome Maedhros' forces. With so many forces being launched from Angband, there was clearly a strong force throughout the plain, both in logistics and likely reinforcements as well as reserves. Plus the line that he got on his horse, rode forth alone and none could restrain him points to the people trying to restrain him were the enemy, because well he'd already rode forth alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashara Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Feanor is most memorable character of Silmarillion. Sure, Finfins are good guys, but it's Feanor that stays with you for years after the rest of the story is forgotten with all his failings and passions and what not. He's just, well, fiery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 I dunno. I think you'll find many people emphathizing with others. I certainly liked Feanor's character, but Finrod for a long time has been my favorite, on account of his bravery, sacrifice and the epic poem fight with Sauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merentha Posted January 19, 2007 Share Posted January 19, 2007 Whereas I found Maedhros and Turin to be the two most memorable characters, followed closely by Feanor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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