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Rose of Red Lake

Timett will steal Alayne

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14 hours ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

(A) That queue to Butterbumps was used to pry info from Sansa about Joffrey. (B) She didn’t know that she would be entering a completely different convo, their plans to marry her off. If their own plan is to be Top Secret, they should tell her that. She doesn’t realize that her marriage prospect is (B)“important intel” because she doesn’t know what’s happening to her half the time. Also, Sansa’s consent is not really present, because they sprung it on her, they offered a magical dream about HG, (C) and she’s looking for any way out of there. (D) They are romanticizing it, intentionally, to obfuscate what’s really going on, which is her being pawned again. It’s backwards to her development because she doesn’t see how things actually are. Which is partly her naivety and partly their manipulation. Just because Dontos is trying to delay that marriage doesn’t mean he’s wrong.

I mean there has to be some motive. Maybe because their claim to Highgarden is “a bit dodgy” as Olenna says herself? That should have been a warning sign to Sansa. Marrying into an ancient house would secure their reputation as a legitimate noble family. It’s a soft power move, which Tywin stole—but did it way worse and hamfisted than the Tyrells. Maybe they also knew Robb was doomed and wanted to act fast. (C) You think they genuinely wanted to make Sansa’s dreams come true, and that’s it? 

A.) True, it was also a statement about the nature of the Red keep and secrecy in general. 

B.) She knew. She knew, at the very least, not to tell Cersei.

Quote

“But the queen,” Sansa went on, “she won’t let me go...”
“She will. Without Highgarden, the Lannisters have no hope of keeping Joffrey on his throne. If
my son the lord oaf asks, she will have no choice but to grant his request.”

C.) Her goal is to get far from King's Landing and Joff. As to her dreams:

Quote

She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. If I give him sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa's dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya.

Seriously though aside from ohMAhgaWd wOLfBloOD what do the Tyrell's get out of this? Is it really that hard to imagine that the #2 nicest family in the realm doesn't want the daughter of a universally respected man beaten and humiliated? Sansa is bringing next to nothing to the table, Dontos has 10,000 reasons to lie, and Winterfell has been taken.

D.) The Reach has similar imagery every time someone describes it. The Tyrell's aren't romanticizing. If even Robert gets poetic talking about the Reach...it's literally that awesome.

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On 8/21/2019 at 11:56 AM, Rose of Red Lake said:

That misses the whole thing about Bronn being able to take out Ser Vardis. These knights are fighting gallantly for glory in a sports game while the mountain clans are fighting for real. 

Vardis lost because Lysa forced him to use Jon Arryn's ceremonial sword.

On 8/21/2019 at 5:04 PM, Lord Varys said:

And Sansa's immediate future seems to be rather obvious to me - get the Vale to declare for Aegon or turn against the Lannisters in his name. That is going to free Sansa from all the chains that bind her right now. Once Tommen is gone (or they turn on him) she can be herself again, with the nominal support of a new King on the Iron Throne she could be restored to Winterfell and the North and see all the enemies of her family destroyed.

One possible difficulty with that: the Starks rose up alongside with the Arryns in the previous generation to overthrow the Targaryens, resulting in Aegon's death/exile. It might be hard to get them to endorse putting a Targaryen back on the throne.

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9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

There are also stupid fan fantasies that Shadrich is going to abduct Sansa. They are equally nonsensical as are all stupid fantasies about an abducted Sansa. However, Shadrich as a possible former little mouse and a knife/informer Varys placed in Littlefinger's court certainly can take steps to influence events in the Vale into a Varys/Aegon favorable direction - possible by pointing out to Alayne that a Targaryen king on the Iron Throne could really help her position. He could also raise Sansa's suspicions about Littlefinger or give her actual evidence pointing to his involvement in certain things (arrest and execution of Ned, say).

The fact that Shadrich is Varys' agent is subtly implied in the new Alayne chapter when Sansa enters Littlefinger's study and the window is open and the papers on his desk seem to be in disorder due to the wind - it was the old modus operandi of Varys' little mice back in Pentos to climb through windows and chimneys to go through the papers of a target and memorize the contents to gain knowledge to blackmail or exploit them.

I'm skeptical of Shadrich being anybody's agent.  His actions when Brienne met him don't really fit.  But I wouldn't be surprised if somebody in Littlefinger's retinue is a Varys spy.  My money would be on Byron, the youngest of the three.

That isn't to say that Shadrich won't play a part in the future.  But I think he is someone looking for a payday or a good gig.

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1 hour ago, FictionIsntReal said:

One possible difficulty with that: the Starks rose up alongside with the Arryns in the previous generation to overthrow the Targaryens, resulting in Aegon's death/exile. It might be hard to get them to endorse putting a Targaryen back on the throne.

Don't see that as a particular difficulty. The Vale is eager for war, and nobody thinks Sansa/Littlefinger or the Vale is going to have to truly be loyal to this Aegon fellow. Not to mention that there is no lasting Targaryen hatred in the Vale that we know of, just as there was obviously no lasting Baratheon love (else people would have pushed Lysa to stay true to Robert's son or at least to declare for one of his brothers). And historically especially the Arryns - but not only them - had rather close ties to the dragons. There were three Targaryen-Arryn marriages, one Targaryen-Royce and one Targaryen-Corbray marriage.

But the Vale could just use Aegon as a shield or pretext to go to war against the Lannisters. Before his arrival attacking the Boltons or Freys and harboring Sansa could be construed as treason and rebellion - but with a new pretender they can essentially hide behind him - that works even better if he is making himself a target which he is already doing. And considering their relative strength - the Vale's forces are untouched by war, meaning their men will be much fresher than anybody else's - they certainly could ignore or defy or threaten Aegon if they don't like what he is doing after he has taken the throne.

And on the other hand: If play a crucial role in helping him on the throne - say, by taking KL in the rear before he can attack it - then they can demand whatever the hell they want.

Both Sansa and Littlefinger should be able to figure that out. And Sansa knows that Cersei and Tommen are basically the biggest obstacles to overcome to allow her to publicly reveal herself. She only hides because she is afraid of Cersei.

1 hour ago, Nevets said:

I'm skeptical of Shadrich being anybody's agent.  His actions when Brienne met him don't really fit.  But I wouldn't be surprised if somebody in Littlefinger's retinue is a Varys spy.  My money would be on Byron, the youngest of the three.

That isn't to say that Shadrich won't play a part in the future.  But I think he is someone looking for a payday or a good gig.

Well, he is called 'the Mad Mouse' (Varys' original agents were called 'the little mice'), he actually knows Varys and implies he works for him (him teaming up with Brienne may have been his way to ensure she doesn't mess with Varys' plans by finding Sansa), he comes from a shady place which also casts doubt on his reputation.

He certainly could also be an independent operative, but that would be not all that interesting a story. Especially since anyone trying to abduct Sansa would be an utter moron, and anyone trying to sell her to Cersei or Tommen now that they are about fall down would be stupid.

Thus we have to ask ourselves: Why the hell is this Shadrich fellow in the Vale now? What could be his narrative purpose? And the Varys connection is the most interesting answer to that.

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Interesting thread! I like the idea of more story for Timett, though personally I always slide off to the hope that minor characters foreshadow something bigger and better in the main event.

Anyway, Bronn can be no guide to Timett; he's not a wildling. Bronn is an elite sellsword (a match for Gregor if you believe him). His background is conventional warfare, and his focus in the training yard is obsessive. So he's not so different to a knight like Ser Garlan - playing at war is preparing for war. Like the Hound says: knights are for killing.

This is what we know about Timett:

  • Timett son of Timett rode alone.
  • Every clan in the Mountains of the Moon feared the Burned Men
  • And even the other Burned Men feared Timett
  • even Bronn kept a respectful tongue around Timett. If a man was mad enough to put out his own eye, he was unlikely to be gentle to his enemies.

Timett is not going to be a positive influence on Sansa.

Unless she wants to learn how to rip out a man's throat with her bare hand, because he can definitely teach her that.

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I don't really see the point of Timett abducting Sansa.

With that being said I highly doubt that Littlefinger's plan will go as smoothly as intended, either.

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2 hours ago, JaddH said:

I don't really see the point of Timett abducting Sansa.

I don't even see the point in fantasizing about 'abduction' or 'stealing' scenarios - especially since those mostly revolve around certain pretty young girls. Nobody ever fantasizes about men being abducted or stolen despite the fact that Tyrion was abducted at least two times...

2 hours ago, JaddH said:

With that being said I highly doubt that Littlefinger's plan will go as smoothly as intended, either.

The part about them taking back the North alongside Lord Harrold is not likely to go smoothly, especially since that was clearly a plan for next spring. But Sansa seducing Harry and him accepting his betrothal to her should work. But we can reasonably assume that Littlefinger might start to have different goals (and Sansa, too) when they learn about Aegon. If Sansa became Aegon's queen they could control the Iron Throne - that's a much sweeter price than Winterfell and the North.

So the plan could easily change to Sansa using Harry as a placeholder until she can seduce and marry Aegon - but whether that's going to work is a completely different story. When the news about Aegon's arrival reach the Vale they won't know anything about Arianne's mission to the Stormlands.

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