Rugby: A New Dawn

[Iskaral Pust]

I’ve been watching a lot of rugby lately, thanks to the Peacock streaming service here.  I got it for PL soccer but actually watch more rugby.  The English (Gallagher) PL, European Championship and Six Nations games are all available.

Really solid win for Ireland today, and they probably should have run up a larger score in the first 25 minutes.  Sexton’s kicking was poor but I’m not sure why they opted to kick at goal in the first place because they were dominant in the carry.  Sexton’s ball handling was very good though, and they showed a great combination of powerful carries, quick hand-offs to change angle, and speed to exploit any open field.  The pack won the game but the back row were good too, even without Keith Earls.  Hansen, Conway and Ringrose all had good games.  Ireland lacked a bit at #9, #8 and #15 today, plus place-kicking was poor and Aki didn’t seem to want to carry the ball into contact after the first ten minutes.  I hope Conor Murray can return.  But a very solid win against a depleted Welsh team.

The next match in Paris will be a lot tougher.

[ljkeane]

14 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

 Sexton’s kicking was poor but I’m not sure why they opted to kick at goal in the first place because they were dominant in the carry. 

I suspect they were conscious of how last year's game went and wanted to put points on the board as often as possible while they were on top.

Solid win for France against Italy in what looked reasonably tough conditions. They got the bonus point which is the important thing. Next week's game against Ireland looks like a big one for the tournament.

Italy played ok. They defended well to, sort of, stay in touch and apparently their defence was good against New Zealand in the Autumn too so that's something to build on. The lineout would be a bit of a concern for me though. It was pretty bad and it's important that they can secure some sort of platform to occasionally launch some attacks of their own.

[ljkeane]

No Sexton for Ireland on Saturday. That's a bit of a blow for probably the biggest game of the tournament against France. It's probably not a bad thing for them to see how Carbery does in a big game though. France are pretty much as expected.

Eddie Jones has wrung the changes a bit for England. That they're playing Italy probably factors into it a bit but good to see Randall given a chance and I prefer Dombrant at 8 over Simmonds given the relationship with Smith. I rather see more of a ball carrier in the centres but Marchant is fine.

[Padraig]

7 hours ago, ljkeane said:

No Sexton for Ireland on Saturday. That's a bit of a blow for probably the biggest game of the tournament against France. It's probably not a bad thing for them to see how Carbery does in a big game though.

Right.  Big loss in the short term.  There are a lot of out-halves across the provinces but there is little faith in any of them (although, some of them are quite young).  Carbery stands out the most, but his history of injuries is woeful.  Hopefully things will improve for him.  Right now, relying on Sexton and Carbery for the next WC will trouble people.  But limited choices.

Still one of the great stories.  And great lines.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/60236293

[ljkeane]

A bit of a scrappy game in Cardiff but it was entertainingly back and forth at least. Wales looked a lot more solid playing two actual centres in the centre and probably just about deserved the win. To be fair Scotland were more than a little lucky to avoid a stone cold yellow for Hogg deliberately knocking the ball on at the start of the game which could have had a big impact on such a tight game.

[lessthanluke]

2 hours ago, ljkeane said:

A bit of a scrappy game in Cardiff but it was entertainingly back and forth at least. Wales looked a lot more solid playing two actual centres in the centre and probably just about deserved the win. To be fair Scotland were more than a little lucky to avoid a stone cold yellow for Hogg deliberately knocking the ball on at the start of the game which could have had a big impact on such a tight game.

Big improvement for Wales but Scotland allowed themselves to be dragged down a bit.

 

France vs Ireland was outstanding to watch. France deserved the victory but both teams are very good right now.

[ljkeane]

Yeah cracking game in Paris.

The real strength of the Irish side over their last few games has been the supply of quick, clean ruck ball their pack have been able to generate. They had almost none of that today, the physicality of the French pack combined with Sean Edwards' standard linespeed in defence did a great job of messing up the Irish patterns of play. Given that I thought they were going to end up getting battered after they went 22-7 down early in the second half but, fair play to them, they managed to fight through and keep the game in the balance right to the end. I'd also say I don't think Sexton missing the game was a big factor, Carbery was good.

From the French point of view they're pretty clearly the most talented side in Northern Hemisphere rugby, arguably world rugby, and they've got a home world cup coming up, they really need to just start winning things now. Getting a win in a tight game like this is good but I don't think anything less than a tournament win is acceptable for them. To be fair this is a big step towards that.

 

[Padraig]

After the first half it was a little ominous for Ireland.  But in the end, we could have stolen it.  France deserved it but there is certainly stuff they can work on also.  Ireland's trip to London now becomes a big test.  We have a great record at home but we have got to win some big away games if we are going to be taken seriously for the WC.

Who plays out half for Italy will be interesting.  Carbery may seem the obvious choice but Sexton hasn't played much in recent months.

[ljkeane]

Relatively straightforward win for England in Italy although they were a little inconsistent with their play.

I'm not as down on Youngs as a lot of people tend to be online, I understand the logic of keeping him involved while they're transitioning to a relatively inexperienced new 10, but he really shouldn't be as untouchable as Jones seems to view him. The major attacking plus of his game was always the running threat he offers around the fringes but as his pace goes that's less of a factor and his passing has never been the best which isn't ideal for a flyhalf like Smith who wants to attack the gainline. It was notable how much better Smith looked with Randall's sharper service from the breakdown and England really should be looking to move to one of Randall or Quirke as their starting 9 for the World Cup. Given that taking Randall off relatively early was a little bizarre.

It didn't matter too much yesterday but I still think England need more of a ball carrier in midfield. With Tuilagi back fit it might end up being him for the rest of the Six Nations but I don't think you can give up on it when he's not fit.

From Italy's point of view that was disappointing after their Under 20s picked up their first ever win against England on Friday. I don't think there was much expectation they were going to pick up a win but that have made it tough for their opponents in their recent games but they didn't really cause England many problems. They have got some talent coming though but they really need to start seeing a bit more in the way of tangible results from that.

[Iskaral Pust]

The French deserved their win but the Irish really pulled themselves back into the match with those two quick tries after half time.  It was really that long streak of penalties that won the game for France.

Ireland’s ball handling was poor in the first half and cost them possession and territory several times, which eventually allowed the heavier French pack to win several kickable penalties.

The French are good at the moment.  The Irish were over-powered in the front row and outclassed at #8-10.  The quick ruck speed was good but the scrum half pass quality was nothing special (great darting try, though), and the open field kicking was too often poorly chosen and/or poorly placed, and Sexton’s usual wrap-around role was lost.

Looking across that team, I think the Irish front row is good in open play but not great in the scrum, positions #4-7 can compete with anyone, #8-10 don’t look top tier atm, and #11-15 are very good even with Keith Earls absent.

[ljkeane]

I was pleasantly surprised with how sensible the England team for Saturday was with Randall at 9, Dombrant at 8 and a big ball carrier in Tuilagi in midfield. Unfortunately Tuilagi didn't even make it through Thursday let alone actually play but I suppose we can't have everything. 

I suppose the big new for Wales is Faletau back and Rees-Zamit missing out. I don't feel like either changes make a massive difference to them to be honest with back row and wing probably Wales' best two positions in terms of depth. Faletau does make their back row a bit better though.

Scotland have a few injury issues (Cameron Redpath out again is a particular shame) but they're still putting a decent side out. I think the big question about the game though it whether France will have one of their usual poor games they've put in to miss out on title's in the last few Six Nations or if they'll maintain a bit more consistentcy this time.

Probably the most notable thing about the Ireland team is Lowry at fullback. He's very good for Ulster so it'll be interesting to see how he does.

[ljkeane]

Fun game in Edinburgh yesterday. The French played some excellent attacking rugby, it really is starting to look like their year, and Scotland played some pretty good rugby themselves. If I was a Scottish fan I'd have been pretty annoyed with the Wales game but I don't think this game reflects too badly on Scotland, France are going to put a few sides to the sword and the margin in the scores didn't really reflect how much Scotland offered. Darge was very good in the absence of Watson.

On the other hand the game at Twickenham really wasn't fun to watch, very scrappy performance from both sides. Both sides are probably staring down the barrel of embarrassing defeats against France in particular if they don't improve.

It's pretty obvious why Wales weren't great, their breakdown was a bit of a disaster so they really struggled to maintain consistent attacks. It did get better in the second half but the concern for me would be is that because Wales improved or just because two of England's better breakdown operators in Curry and Cowan-Dickie went off injured?

England were pretty dire. They just don't put any stress on teams in defence. Randall sped up the service from the breakdown but when all you're doing with that ball is passing it to fairly static forward pods or Smith with nothing outside him hoping he's going to step his way through a set defence you aren't going to consistently cause international defences problems.

[lessthanluke]

Farcical scenes in Ireland.

One marginal tackle means Italy lose two players and the game is ruined. Turned it off after that as no point watching.

Edited February 27, 2022 by lessthanluke

[ljkeane]

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I understand the rules to stop teams taking the piss with ‘injuries’ in the front row that’s obviously not the case here. 

[lessthanluke]

1 minute ago, ljkeane said:

Yeah, this is ridiculous. I understand the rules to stop teams taking the piss with ‘injuries’ in the front row that’s obviously not the case here. 

Yup. Not really blaming the ref as he's just following the laws its just silly. Should be some discretion allowed.

[williamjm]

5 hours ago, ljkeane said:

Fun game in Edinburgh yesterday. The French played some excellent attacking rugby, it really is starting to look like their year, and Scotland played some pretty good rugby themselves. If I was a Scottish fan I'd have been pretty annoyed with the Wales game but I don't think this game reflects too badly on Scotland, France are going to put a few sides to the sword and the margin in the scores didn't really reflect how much Scotland offered. Darge was very good in the absence of Watson.

On the other hand the game at Twickenham really wasn't fun to watch, very scrappy performance from both sides. Both sides are probably staring down the barrel of embarrassing defeats against France in particular if they don't improve.

It's pretty obvious why Wales weren't great, their breakdown was a bit of a disaster so they really struggled to maintain consistent attacks. It did get better in the second half but the concern for me would be is that because Wales improved or just because two of England's better breakdown operators in Curry and Cowan-Dickie went off injured?

England were pretty dire. They just don't put any stress on teams in defence. Randall sped up the service from the breakdown but when all you're doing with that ball is passing it to fairly static forward pods or Smith with nothing outside him hoping he's going to step his way through a set defence you aren't going to consistently cause international defences problems.

I was thinking the same that it did feel like Scotland were playing better despite how the scoreline ended up. Darge did look like a good replacement for Watson.

I think Wales should probably be reflecting that was a game they could have won. Their lineout was a shambles at times, particularly gifting England their first try.

[Padraig]

It really was a pity about the Italy game.  Was an opportunity to give players an opportunity.  And Italy seemed determined to give it a serious go.  I stopped watching too after a half hour.

Now it will be 4 weeks between proper games.

[ljkeane]

This feels like a key weekend for all the teams. France obviously want to kick on from here to win a Grandslam but they've generally tended to play less well away from home and Wales tend to make things awkward even when they're a little outmatched on paper. Ireland have played well and there's no disgrace in losing to France but if they lose again all of a sudden it's a bit of a disappointing tournament. England and Wales really need to show they can pick it up a level with the World Cup on the horizon. Italy really just need a win and Scotland definitely need not to lose to Italy.

[Iskaral Pust]

Really good win by Ireland today, although they got bullied in the scrum just like in Paris.  They need to find a way to not concede penalties against heavier front rows.  But some of the open play was excellent and would have produced even more tries but for some knock-ons and missed offloads at very dangerous moments.  That could have been more comfortable with just a few less handling errors.  The disallowed try as Itoje bumped Ringrose to get a knock-on in the ruck was a dubious call and otherwise might have finished off England early.

England fought really well with only 14 but were relying heavily on the scrum and the high ball.  But they used them to good effect to fight their way back into the game because Ireland had them on toast in the open field.  I think they also fed on the energy of the home crowd, which made it even more exciting to watch.

The ref was a bit odd.  It was a red card for sure but then he seemed to be unconsciously trying to balance the scales for the rest of the game.  The Irish players were bemused and then frustrated by his interpretations.  It was a bit shitty of the crowd to boo the red card like that — it was a an obvious and dangerous head collision that put the Irish player off with a concussion.  The whole point of the rule is to reduce serious head injuries. Unfortunately that player has had a few concussions and may well be considering an early retirement from the game after this latest.  Eddie Jones sends his team out with an All Black-like eagerness to injure the opponents to subdue them.

Ireland weren’t as assured as they should have been under the high ball.  I’m not fully convinced by Keenan.  His kicking and open field play are good but he needs to do a better job of protecting possession after the catch. They were clearly targeting him there.

The Gibson-Park experiment is building.  His quick tempo, fast rucks, and darting quick penalties contributed to Ireland’s more potent open field play, although the team has struggled all tournament with handling errors at this higher speed.  It’s noticeable that they scored the last two tries with Murray on the field as the replacement scrum half.  I wish G-P’s ball handling, pass delivery and game management could be as good as Murray’s.

Ireland are building toward the WC.  Their fast, intricate passing gives them a real attacking edge, but they need the players to get used to making the final offload under pressure and at speed.

Wales almost did Ireland a huge favor against France.  Now they need one from England instead next week.

[lessthanluke]

Feel like I watched a different game to you to be honest. 

Ireland were BAD and barely made it over the line against 14 men. Their handling and decision making was awful. Keenan was probably their best player so your criticism of him seems a bit mis timed.

The ref was terrible all round, completely ignored an unconscious Kyle Sinckler and allowed a quick tap from the wrong spot for Irelands second try.