Lee-Sensei Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 On 6/24/2020 at 8:07 AM, zandru said: As the dust begins to settle from the near-endless wars, people might be inclined to look back more skeptically on the whole Baratheon family. Robert truly was the Wastrel King, squandering the wealth of the Seven Kingdoms on having a good time, plus a war or so thrown in, and a weak, Lannister-led ruler. Joffrey "Baratheon" was a mini-Aerys II from his first day on the throne, and seemingly getting worse over time. Under his disastrous rule, the wars began people starved, the country was brutalized. Tommen "Baratheon" was even weaker than his wastrel "father", a child figurehead for his evil, deranged Lannister mother and her henchmen. Renly tore the kingdom in half by refusing to yield to his brother's better claim; good thing he died early. Admittedly, he had good fashion sense, but that was probably due to his being an Abomination. Stannis completed the work of devastating the kingdom through wars, defied, defiled, and threw down the Gods of the Seven Kingdoms that people had worshipped for thousands of years, and led tens of thousands of lawless Wildlings through the Wall and gave them land, so they could rape, steal and kill the good people of the Seven Kingdoms. I think, should both Stannis and Shireen perish, the Baratheon name will be toxic. People will be glad that it's as dead as the Reynes, the Tarbecks, the Gardners. Someone new will take over Storm's End and establish a new House. (I'd also like to see this with House Frey, but that's another story.) 1) King Robert fought two wars and he started neither of them. One was started by the Targaryens and one was started by the Greyjoys. The Baratheons just stomped them out. 2) Joffrey and Tommen aren’t Baratheons. 3) The rest of that damage was primarily caused by the Lannisters. Stannis had the 2nd smallest army of the 5 Kings, so it’s unlikely that he did as much damage as Joffrey/Tywin or even Robb Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Lee-Sensei said: 1) King Robert fought two wars and he started neither of them. One was started by the Targaryens and one was started by the Greyjoys. The Baratheons just stomped them out. I don't think the Greyjoys would have rebelled if the Targaryens were still in power. It was the Targaryens who defeated Harren and his Ironborn. Threw them out of the Riverlands. Melted Harrenhal like it's candle wax. Balon was testing his luck against the Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Baratheons are losers. The Targaryens built and held Westeros for 300 years of unbroken rule. The kingdom prospered most of that time and there were long periods of peace. The Baratheons cannot make the same claim. If the Baratheons are losers, what does that make the Targaryens. You know. Because the Targaryens lost to the Baratheons in about a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said: I don't think the Greyjoys would have rebelled if the Targaryens were still in power. It was the Targaryens who defeated Harren and his Ironborn. Threw them out of the Riverlands. Melted Harrenhal like it's candle wax. Balon was testing his luck against the Baratheons. 1) The Greyjoys rebelled plenty of times under the Targaryens. 2) The Targaryen dragons beat Harren the Black. It’s a bit of a cheat, don’t you think? They had the equivalent of Medieval fantasy nukes. 3) The Targaryens didn’t have Dragons anymore, because they killed them off in a Targaryen Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Lee-Sensei said: If the Baratheons are losers, what does that make the Targaryens. You know. Because the Targaryens lost to the Baratheons in about a year. The Targaryens held the throne for 300 years. The Baratheons only by a tiny fraction of that time. And the Baratheon screw ups brought Westeros to its present condition. The Targaryens are a far more successful dynasty compared to the Baratheons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Targaryens held the throne for 300 years. The Baratheons only by a tiny fraction of that time. And the Baratheon screw ups brought Westeros to its present condition. The Targaryens are a far more successful dynasty compared to the Baratheons. Nice deflection, but let’s get back to the point. You called the Baratheons losers, but they beat the Targaryens. What do you call people that lose to losers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Targaryens held the throne for 300 years They couldn't even manage for 300 years... Actually... 4 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: And the Baratheon screw ups brought Westeros to its present condition. The Targaryens are a far more successful dynasty compared to the Baratheons. Hmm.... Well the Baratheons/Durrandons go back over 8000 years as a successful dynasty.... I don't think the Targs who were pions in Valyria can compare... And those Baratheon screw ups are actually Lannister screw ups.... Granted Rob shouldn't have made the mistake of marrying Cersie.... In hindsight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Orm said: They couldn't even manage for 300 years... Actually... Hmm.... Well the Baratheons/Durrandons go back over 8000 years as a successful dynasty.... I don't think the Targs who were pions in Valyria can compare... And those Baratheon screw ups are actually Lannister screw ups.... Granted Rob shouldn't have made the mistake of marrying Cersie.... In hindsight The Durandons were soundly defeated during the conquest. And the Baratheon line came from bastard stock, Orys. The Targaryens were one of the ruling families of the Valyrian Freehold. They were far from peons. The Baratheons and Durandons cannot compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Lee-Sensei said: Nice deflection, but let’s get back to the point. You called the Baratheons losers, but they beat the Targaryens. What do you call people that lose to losers? They lost the battle but not the war. King Viserys III survived, as did Princess Daenerys and Prince Aegon. The Baratheons had a brief victory. Which did not last one succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Targaryens are a far more successful dynasty compared to the Baratheons. Definitely. Anybody who would say differently has not read the material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Orm said: They couldn't even manage for 300 years... Actually... They did. Every ruler during that time period of approximately three hundred years was a Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Durandons were soundly defeated during the conquest. And the Baratheon line came from bastard stock, Orys. And less than 300 years later those Baratheon/Durrandons kicked the Targs out of power..... 8 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Targaryens were one of the ruling families of the Valyrian Freehold. They were far from peons. The Baratheons and Durandons cannot compare The only thing special about Targs is that they are the only family with Dragons left after the Doom..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Robert was not up to the task. And yeah, he beat Rhaegar on the Trident. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's a loser, but the Baratheons did more harm than good. Whereas the Targaryens did more good for Westeros. 7 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: They lost the battle but not the war. King Viserys III survived, as did Princess Daenerys and Prince Aegon. The Baratheons had a brief victory. Which did not last one succession. The Baratheons won the rebellion and the remaining royal family had to go into exile. Live and live to continue the fight another day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Orm said: And less than 300 years later those Baratheon/Durrandons kicked the Targs out of power..... 300 years is a very long time. That is a very successful dynasty. Just now, Orm said: The only thing special about Targs is that they are the only family with Dragons left after the Doom..... Maybe so. But that is one great thing about them that made them special. Something the Baratheons clearly do not have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: Maybe so. But that is one great thing about them that made them special. Something the Baratheons clearly do not have. Being the only ones ever to overthrow targ lunacy doesn't count?? 2 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: 300 years is a very long time. That is a very successful dynasty. Not when your competition is over 8000 years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Try as they might, the anti-Targaryens among the fans cannot really erase away the fact that this family accomplished more than any other in Westeros. I think that is the bottom line here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: Robert was not up to the task. I can agree to that.... But whose fault is that in the first place? Aerys and Rhaegar.... 7 minutes ago, Moiraine Sedai said: but the Baratheons did more harm than good. Whereas the Targaryens did more good for Westeros. Hmm... Again I have to call B_S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Here's Looking At You, Kid Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 Just now, Orm said: Not when your competition is over 8000 years.... And Orys the bastard would never have been in a position to become a lord if it were not for the opportunity given to him by Aegon Targaryen. The Baratheon-Durandons simply cannot equal the Targaryens in terms of great accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said: Try as they might, the anti-Targaryens among the fans cannot really erase away the fact that this family accomplished more than any other in Westeros. I think that is the bottom line here. Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 9, 2020 Share Posted August 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: And Orys the bastard would never have been in a position to become a lord if it were not for the opportunity given to him by Aegon Targaryen If Orys and the Targs never conquered we simply would have Robert Durrandon and Stannis Durrandon...lol.... 6 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said: The Baratheon-Durandons simply cannot equal the Targaryens in terms of great accomplishments. The results of Roberts rebellion disagrees I am afraid....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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