Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ramsay B.

Watch, Watched, Watching: Strange Times

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Rear Window.  Vertigo. Rebecca.  Notorious.  Strangers on a Train.  Psycho.  What's not to like there?  But then I love his films and I would definitely choose the Hitchcock catalog to take to the desert island. But I kind of feel that way about Ford, I can recognize the talent there, but the particular atheistic with a couple of exceptions isn't my thing. 

I can't say I've ever heard of Rebecca, but give some love to North by Northwest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

If the sub genre is 'campy badish but fun action film' does it really belong in the same conversation as Jaws and the Godfather?

Jaws is campy in its own ways, and both Godfather films put a lot of people to sleep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I can't say I've ever heard of Rebecca, but give some love to North by Northwest.

Barbaraian!!! Joan Fontaine at her simpering 'best', Olivier, George Sanders, lesbian undertones, British aristos, murder.  Based on DuMarier's novel.  Last night I dreamt I went to Manderley again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Jaws is campy in its own ways, and both Godfather films put a lot of people to sleep.

I honestly don't think I know anyone who doesn't love Godfather 1 & 2 and have never heard that it put anyone to sleep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

If films are classics, and considered to be some of the best films in their respective genres, then yeah, you can call them some of the best films ever.

Like Cas said, not if their genre is cheesy action films, no.  And I'm refraining from unleashing my fury at comparing either Godfather - and particularly two - to Jaws.  This is beyond the pale and is not a valid opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I honestly don't think I know anyone who doesn't love Godfather 1 & 2 and have never heard that it put anyone to sleep.

I love the films, but a lot of people find them boring, and I can attest that several people fell asleep to the first one in my HS film studies class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, DMC said:

Like Cas said, not if their genre is cheesy action films, no.  And I'm refraining from unleashing my fury at comparing either Godfather - and particularly two - to Jaws.  This is beyond the pale and is not a valid opinion.

Your opinion, it's just that, an opinion, would not be shared by many in the industry. Of the three, Jaws is the weakest, but all three are all-time greats. Funny enough they're also the rare examples of the films being better than the books (or at least the first Godfather, idk about the second).

Genre doesn't matter though. So what if either film isn't some snobbish, artsy thing. Die Hard and Predator are two of the best films ever, one is a pure action film and the other blends action and horror. It's this mindset that causes something like, since it was brought up recently, Hereditary, to not get the love at the award shows it deserved. 

Edited by Tywin et al.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Your opinion, it's just that, an opinion, would not be shared by many in the industry. Of the three, Jaws is the weakest, but all three are all-time greats. Funny enough they're also the rare examples of the films being better than the books (or at least the first Godfather, idk about the second).

Genre doesn't matter though. So what if either film isn't some snobbish, artsy thing. Die Hard and Predator are two of the best films ever, one is a pure action film and the other blends action and horror. It's this mindset that causes something like, since it was brought up recently, Hereditary, to not get the love at the award shows it deserved. 

Predator is not 'one of the best films ever' come on.  It isn't even one of Peak Arnold's best films, which are popcorn campy action flicks with dodgy acting to begin with, how could such a film possibly be in the same conversation as Jaws or Godfather or Dunkirk or The Shining or Vertigo.

Hereditary is a good horror film, but I doubt its going to crack AFIs top 100 any time soon.

Edited by Cas Stark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Predator is not 'one of the best films ever' come on.  It isn't even one of Peak Arnold's best films, which are popcorn campy action flicks with dodgy acting to begin with, how could such a film possibly be in the same conversation as Jaws or Godfather or Dunkirk or The Shining or Vertigo.

Hereditary is a good horror film, but I doubt its going to crack AFIs top 100 any time soon.

Many people think The Shining is terrible. I like it a lot, but just because I like it doesn't mean you have to.

Predator is one of the all-time great action films, and yes that does mean it's an all-time great film. Its genre should not limit it in this discussion, and frankly, it's actually a plus in the director's argument because that movie should have been bad. Like really bad. But it's great. You go make a film about an invisible alien in the jungle and not come out with something everyone just laughs at.

ETA: AFI.

It's A Wonderful Life is ranked 20th. It was a nothing film for a long time. And most of these films are old movies people just don't want to take off the list. DMC, please see #56. 

Also, Platoon is a spot ahead of 12 Angry Men? That's an upset. And Blade Runner is even on the list? Sorry Theda. 

Edited by Tywin et al.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Your opinion, it's just that, an opinion, would not be shared by many in the industry. Of the three, Jaws is the weakest, but all three are all-time greats.

No, you're empirically wrong, both in terms of industry perception and public perception.  On IMDB the first two Godfathers are ranked 2 and 3.  Jaws has an 8.0 rating, which puts it in the 200s.

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Genre doesn't matter though. So what if either film isn't some snobbish, artsy thing. Die Hard and Predator are two of the best films ever, one is a pure action film and the other blends action and horror.

If you think Die Hard and Predator are two of the greatest films ever, I really can't help you.  I love Die Hard.  But while I couldn't direct it, I could write its story and dialogue in my sleep.  Both are thoughtless fun, sure, but shouldn't even be in consideration for best films ever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Many people think The Shining is terrible. I like it a lot, but just because I like it doesn't mean you have to.

Predator is one of the all-time great action films, and yes that does mean it's an all-time great film. Its genre should not limit it in this discussion, and frankly, it's actually a plus in the director's argument because that movie should have been bad. Like really bad. But it's great. You go make a film about an invisible alien in the jungle and not come out with something everyone just laughs at.

Are these the same people who fall asleep during The Godfather?  Perhaps these people should pick a different hobby than movies. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, DMC said:

No, you're empirically wrong, both in terms of industry perception and public perception.  On IMDB the first two Godfathers are ranked 2 and 3.  Jaws has an 8.0 rating, which puts it in the 200s.

If you think Die Hard and Predator are two of the greatest films ever, I really can't help you.  I love Die Hard.  But while I couldn't direct it, I could write its story and dialogue in my sleep.  Both are thoughtless fun, sure, but shouldn't even be in consideration for best films ever.

See above, Jaws ranks in the top 100 for AFI, though there are frankly a lot of really questionable films on that list. 

And if you couldn't direct it, what are we talking about? Directing is about making the most with what you have. Furthermore, you may be surprised how hard it is to write good dialogue. Paint the broad strokes of a story isn't that hard, if you know what you're doing, but filling in the gaps is. 

ETA: Also, if you were going after bad dialogue, why not attack Predator? Die Hard is very quotable. 
 

Edited by Tywin et al.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Are these the same people who fall asleep during The Godfather?  Perhaps these people should pick a different hobby than movies. 

 

People like different kinds of movies. Limiting the scope of what can be seen as great isn't useful, nor is it correct. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, DMC said:

The opening scene of TDK is a greater tribute to Mann than Spielberg has ever done.

 

 

When has Spielberg ever done tributes to Mann?

And that's the point really isn't it. It's a tribute. It's a neat tribute, but it's not Heat is it

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

This isn't a take I've heard before. I think it can get more love than it deserves, but bad?

.

Bad overall might be a teeny bit harsh because there are some good scenes individually within it and I enjoyed it the first time I watched it but the storytelling over the whole piece is really quite poor and I've grown to dislike it more and more as time's gone on.

My biggest problem with it is simply that he sets out very specific rules on how the dreamworlds work and then breaks most of them in the finale, but also the finale itself was just badly paced, too much going on and intercutting between scenarios for it to flow properly.

And the ambiguity of the ending was a copout to me too, just a cheap trick to get one last question in that wasn't necessary and potentially ruins te emotional arc of the movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

People like different kinds of movies. Limiting the scope of what can be seen as great isn't useful, nor is it correct. 

Yes and no.  Art is subjective, yes,and people like what they like.  If you're going to try to tell me that Predator is on the same level as The Godfather as art, then just no.   I like a lot of B movies, I love Roger Corman, but I would never compare him to Hitchcock or even Nolan.  I would never say that Halloween, the greatest slasher film of all time belongs in the same conversation as Dunkirk or Casino. At the end of the road of something is great if some people think it is lies the world where dogs playing poker and clown paintings are as good as Botticelli.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Bad overall might be a teeny bit harsh because there are some good scenes individually within it and I enjoyed it the first time I watched it but the storytelling over the whole piece is really quite poor and I've grown to dislike it more and more as time's gone on.

My biggest problem with it is simply that he sets out very specific rules on how the dreamworlds work and then breaks most of them in the finale, but also the finale itself was just badly paced, too much going on and intercutting between scenarios for it to flow properly.

That's a fairer description. I see it as an ambitious film that works for some and not for others. Interstellar is the one I have more problems with.
 

Quote

And the ambiguity of the ending was a copout to me too, just a cheap trick to get one last question in that wasn't necessary and potentially ruins te emotional arc of the movie.

I get that, I just took it as a metaphor and for me it works. But it can also feel like a lack of resolution for what felt like a 75 hour movie. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes and no.  Art is subjective, yes,and people like what they like.  If you're going to try to tell me that Predator is on the same level as The Godfather as art, then just no.   I like a lot of B movies, I love Roger Corman, but I would never compare him to Hitchcock or even Nolan.  I would never say that Halloween, the greatest slasher film of all time belongs in the same conversation as Dunkirk or Casino. At the end of the road of something is great if some people think it is lies the world where dogs playing poker and clown paintings are as good as Botticelli.

Are you a sports fan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

And if you couldn't direct it, what are we talking about? Directing is about making the most with what you have.

You were asserting Die Hard and Predator were among the greatest films, not just directing, which yes was the original topic.  As for the AFI list, first one I googled had Godfather at 2, Godfather 2 at 32, and Jaws at 56.  I think it's ridiculous they had two that low, but regardless, you don't compare Mike Trout to Whit Merrifield.  As for the difficulty in writing dialogue, I suspect I have more experience in its difficulties than you, thanks.

9 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

When has Spielberg ever done tributes to Mann?

Fair point, I don't think ever.  But then again, I didn't even mention most of the movies he's made the past decade because I haven't bothered to see almost all of them.  Because most look like shit.  Tintin and Ready Player One?  Point is, Nolan did a crime movie that can hold up to any of Mann's - and he integrated it into one of the three most popular superhero comicbook characters in history.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Are you a sports fan?

Okay, I'll bite.  Football, yes.  How is that relevant?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Okay, I'll bite.  Football, yes.  How is that relevant?

Football in U.S. terms or the world?

(you just wait, DMC)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...